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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
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systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Oct 1 @ 2:50 PM ET
Yep,and how many more rebuilds is that going to take from the leafs for this to happen

- top shelf 15


Besides the one they're doing? The one theyre doing. Goofy question but if that's all you had to respond with to my comment then I guess you agree with what I said.
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Oct 1 @ 2:50 PM ET
Yep,and how many more rebuilds is that going to take from the leafs for this to happen

- top shelf 15



More? Lets lets this first one simmer first.
muffin_man
Montreal Canadiens
Location: no problem, as s hole - Eric Engels, NY
Joined: 02.10.2007

Oct 1 @ 6:01 PM ET
More? Lets lets this first one simmer first.
- burn

Please don't pretend this is the first rebuild. You're just feeding the trolls.
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Oct 1 @ 6:08 PM ET
Please don't pretend this is the first rebuild. You're just feeding the trolls.
- muffin_man



Pretend?

Can you list the others?
golfingsince
Location: The losers tonight are the people.-QP
Joined: 11.30.2011

Oct 1 @ 7:34 PM ET
In 3 years from now the Sens and Canucks will be battling for the title of worst Canadian team. Flames, Jets, Leafs and Oilers all have a pretty sick collection of youth ready to take over.

Also, bumped for Daeth. His love for this thread is unrivaled.

- systemtool


Meh, in 3 years the Leafs will be rebuilding again with the latest best management team ever!!!
golfingsince
Location: The losers tonight are the people.-QP
Joined: 11.30.2011

Oct 1 @ 7:35 PM ET
Pretend?

Can you list the others?

- burn


From 1967 or did you have another start date in mind?
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Oct 1 @ 7:36 PM ET
From 1967 or did you have another start date in mind?
- golfingsince



Pick date, what do I care.... Make your list.
golfingsince
Location: The losers tonight are the people.-QP
Joined: 11.30.2011

Oct 1 @ 7:38 PM ET
Pick date, what do I care.... Make you're list.
- burn


Lets just split the difference and call it a 50 year rebuild.
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Oct 1 @ 7:40 PM ET
Lets just split the difference and call it a 50 year rebuild.
- golfingsince



Of course, becuase during the Quinn years they didn't have the most playoff victories....they were rebuilding. When pat burns was coaching them they were deep into rebuild.


Salming, sittler, macdonald......


Troll on trollster.....
golfingsince
Location: The losers tonight are the people.-QP
Joined: 11.30.2011

Oct 1 @ 7:44 PM ET
Of course, becuase during the Quinn years they didn't have the most playoff victories....they were rebuilding. When pat burns was coaching them they were deep into rebuild.


Salming, sittler, macdonald......


Troll on trollster.....

- burn


The most victories of what? .....Teams to not make the Stanley cup playoffs?

Oddly enough, you pointed out some highs. Yet you suggest there are no lows where they were rebuilding.

Which is it?
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Oct 1 @ 7:59 PM ET
The most victories of what? .....Teams to not make the Stanley cup playoffs?

Oddly enough, you pointed out some highs. Yet you suggest there are no lows where they were rebuilding.

Which is it?

- golfingsince



Where? Show me.


Hardly "rebuilding" when they the highest payroll team. No one said they were perfect, but to say that they have been rebuilding all this time is utterly moronic.
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Oct 1 @ 8:01 PM ET
The most victories of what? .....Teams to not make the Stanley cup playoffs?

Oddly enough, you pointed out some highs. Yet you suggest there are no lows where they were rebuilding.

Which is it?

- golfingsince




Perhaps you didn't read what you quoted properly, suggest you circle back and re-read what you quoted.

Hint: they didn't miss the playoffs under Quinn, except for the last year.
golfingsince
Location: The losers tonight are the people.-QP
Joined: 11.30.2011

Oct 1 @ 8:16 PM ET
Perhaps you didn't read what you quoted properly, suggest you circle back and re-read what you quoted.

Hint: they didn't miss the playoffs under Quinn, except for the last year.

- burn


Playoffs should read finals.

Funny how the payroll is now the indicator of wether or not you're rebuilding. If you finish near the bottom of the league 2/3 years you're rebuilding wether you admit it or not.

There are many ways to rebuild, a blatant tank is just one of them.
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Oct 1 @ 8:21 PM ET
Playoffs should read finals.

Funny how the payroll is now the indicator of wether or not you're rebuilding. If you finish near the bottom of the league 2/3 years you're rebuilding wether you admit it or not.

There are many ways to rebuild, a blatant tank is just one of them.

- golfingsince



Anyone who thinks that a team spending the most in the league is rebuilding is a blatant idiot. If you're making the playoffs and trading picks and prospects you're not rebuilding.

Rebuilding involves tearing down what is there and building something new.
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: everyday i see my dream
Joined: 03.14.2014

Oct 1 @ 8:21 PM ET
Playoffs should read finals.

Funny how the payroll is now the indicator of wether or not you're rebuilding. If you finish near the bottom of the league 2/3 years you're rebuilding wether you admit it or not.

There are many ways to rebuild, a blatant tank is just one of them.

- golfingsince


More recently they opted for quick fixes that had low /zero probability of succes.

Signing +30 year ufa's, trading picks/prospects for junk players, hanging on to an aging core for too long etc.

Sound familiar?
golfingsince
Location: The losers tonight are the people.-QP
Joined: 11.30.2011

Oct 1 @ 8:29 PM ET
Anyone who thinks that a team spending the most in the league is rebuilding is a blatant idiot. If you're making the playoffs and trading picks and prospects you're not rebuilding.

Rebuilding involves tearing down what is there and building something new.

- burn


Right....

Oddly enough the Oilers were 3 million from the cap last year so they weren't rebuilding.

After all, they were among the highest in the league.

How much money you spend has nothing to do with it at all. Cap management is an entirely different game.

When the Blackhawks were rebuilding, they signed Brian Campbell to an enormous contract.
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Oct 1 @ 8:49 PM ET
Right....

Oddly enough the Oilers were 3 million from the cap last year so they weren't rebuilding.

After all, they were among the highest in the league.

How much money you spend has nothing to do with it at all. Cap management is an entirely different game.

When the Blackhawks were rebuilding, they signed Brian Campbell to an enormous contract.

- golfingsince


Was, you know, talking about a time when there wasn't a cap... So.

But conveniently ignores the part about trading picks and prospects..... All rebuilding teams tradin away picks and prospects.
golfingsince
Location: The losers tonight are the people.-QP
Joined: 11.30.2011

Oct 1 @ 8:55 PM ET
Was, you know, talking about a time when there wasn't a cap... So.

But conveniently ignores the part about trading picks and prospects..... All rebuilding teams tradin away picks and prospects.

- burn


So it's even less important. I mean Bobby Holik was signed to $10 million a year or something like that. It's just money.....

Many rebuilding teams do trade away picks and prospects, in order to expedite the rebuild.

Rebuilding is about finding the right pieces, not drafting high a bunch of years in a row hoping to strike gold through the draft. You do it by any means necessary, the complete tank is just one strategy. Hasn't worked out yet for the Oilers despite some good fortune has it?
Pie
Montreal Canadiens
Location: taking the low road
Joined: 10.14.2006

Oct 1 @ 9:16 PM ET
So it's even less important. I mean Bobby Holik was signed to $10 million a year or something like that. It's just money.....

Many rebuilding teams do trade away picks and prospects, in order to expedite the rebuild.

Rebuilding is about finding the right pieces, not drafting high a bunch of years in a row hoping to strike gold through the draft. You do it by any means necessary, the complete tank is just one strategy. Hasn't worked out yet for the Oilers despite some good fortune has it?

- golfingsince

burn...
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Oct 1 @ 10:51 PM ET
Playoffs should read finals.

Funny how the payroll is now the indicator of wether or not you're rebuilding. If you finish near the bottom of the league 2/3 years you're rebuilding wether you admit it or not.

There are many ways to rebuild, a blatant tank is just one of them.

- golfingsince

I think rebuilding refers to a concerted effort to change the core. Since the lockout, I think the Leafs did that once, starting with Fletcher. That rebuild went through Burke, and IMO was pretty decent until he left and Nonis just made a series of terrible moves.

Second one started with Shanahan and his Shanaplan.
systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Oct 2 @ 1:31 AM ET
here's just one that comes to mind. When Brian Burke traded two first- and one second-round pick for Phil Kessel, he declared he was too impatient for a traditional rebuild and that under his watch the leafs would undergo a radical on-the-fly rebuild.
- D0PPELGANGER


Might just be me but rebuilding means starting from the bottom with a solid foundation and building up. Meaning draft and develop from within until you can compete. Then trade picks for perfecting the roster. He didn't rebuild. He retooled.
systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Oct 2 @ 1:33 AM ET
Playoffs should read finals.

Funny how the payroll is now the indicator of wether or not you're rebuilding. If you finish near the bottom of the league 2/3 years you're rebuilding wether you admit it or not.

There are many ways to rebuild, a blatant tank is just one of them.

- golfingsince



In fairness tanking by drafting high and often is probably the most efficient and successful way of rebuilding a team. The most proven if you will. That goes for any sport pretty much.

No Leafs team before this regime has tried this approach with patience and conviction...

Suggesting that what the Leafs are doing now is something they've been doing for decades is not only untrue, it's absurd and idiotic. There is no guarantee that the Leafs collection of youth and rookies will bring the team success but it defunitedly isn't something that's been done before. The potential and talent levels of the young players they have isn't and hasn't been a common occurrence.
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: everyday i see my dream
Joined: 03.14.2014

Oct 2 @ 1:54 AM ET
In fairness tanking by drafting high and often is probably the most efficient and successful way of rebuilding a team. The most proven if you will. That goes for any sport pretty much.

No Leafs team before this regime has tried this approach with patience and conviction...

Suggesting that what the Leafs are doing now is something they've been doing for decades is not only untrue, it's absurd and idiotic. There is no guarantee that the Leafs collection of youth and rookies will bring the team success but it defunitedly isn't something that's been done before. The potential and talent levels of the young players they have isn't and hasn't been a common occurrence.

- systemtool


Kings, hawks and pens all had a series of high picks between circa 2003- 2008.

Those teams have won 7 of the last 8 stanley cups.

Other teams have sucked, drafted high and haven't won, so there are no guarantees....but honestly, wtf. 7 of the last (frank)ing 8.



D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Oct 2 @ 6:38 AM ET
Might just be me but rebuilding means starting from the bottom with a solid foundation and building up. Meaning draft and develop from within until you can compete. Then trade picks for perfecting the roster. He didn't rebuild. He retooled.
- systemtool



Why do you leaf fans keep re-defining the meaning of rebuild?

Back before there was a Salary Cap, rebuild meant signing older free agents to "retirement" contracts and you mocked teams that were building through the draft.

Then the JFJ and Fletcher era, making trades was the definition of rebuild, and you mocked teams that were building through the draft.

Then under Burke, trading multiple high draft picks to land Kessel was the new interpolation of rebuild, and you mocked teams that were building through the draft.

And now that the leafs are building through the draft, this is the latest version of how leaf fans see a rebuild ......... the same method used by the Senators, Oilers and other teams that leaf fans mocked for more than the past decade.

So were the teams that were "rebuilding" through the draft right all along, and you leaf fans were wrong for mocking teams that have been doing all along, now that the leafs are doing it?
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Oct 2 @ 6:51 AM ET
Why do you leaf fans keep re-defining the meaning of rebuild?

Back before there was a Salary Cap, rebuild meant signing older free agents to "retirement" contracts and you mocked teams that were building through the draft.

Then the JFJ and Fletcher era, making trades was the definition of rebuild, and you mocked teams that were building through the draft.

Then under Burke, trading multiple high draft picks to land Kessel was the new interpolation of rebuild, and you mocked teams that were building through the draft.

And now that the leafs are building through the draft, this is the latest version of how leaf fans see a rebuild ......... the same method used by the Senators, Oilers and other teams that leaf fans mocked for more than the past decade.

So were the teams that were "rebuilding" through the draft right all along, and you leaf fans were wrong for mocking teams that have been doing all along, now that the leafs are doing it?

- D0PPELGANGER
Just like the sun coming up every morning .Leaf nation will always be there telling you their way is better
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