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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
Author Message
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Nov 30 @ 5:19 PM ET

- kulemin13


don't you need your brain???
LeafnsNxt2Godlyns
Location: Matt Stajan still sucks, even in Germany.
Joined: 07.20.2006

Nov 30 @ 5:23 PM ET
Exactly... I don't know why Ottawa hasn't done something this year to try and improve the team. Maybe Bryan Murray wants to jet back to Anaheim
- Steen

I don't think you start a rebuild by trading 25 year old guys like Heatley and Spezza. You build that rebuild around them.
RogerRoeper
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 03.27.2007

Nov 30 @ 7:55 PM ET
I don't think you start a rebuild by trading 25 year old guys like Heatley and Spezza. You build that rebuild around them.
- LeafnsNxt2Godlyns



The thing is, they take up so much of the cap I think one does have to go.
AlffyForPres
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 01.15.2008

Nov 30 @ 7:58 PM ET
The Cap has helped most of the teams not named the Rangers, Canadiens and Maple Leafs. Yes is makes it difficult to manage, but if these teams could spend to the limit, you would have lost Spezza, Heatley and Alfie long ago.
- Big T


there was a huge report on the cap system last month on the nhl network and they were reporting on teh sens and that if there was no cap they would be top 5 in money spent and that melnyk would of made sure not to have lost anyone....get ur facts straight, melnyk is more willing to put out his money in comparison to gillette.

and for roger roeper...no not one has to go, people forget that our sh*t are overpaid...mike fisher makes 4.2 million per year, vermette gets close to 3 and kelly gets 2.2 thats whats ridiculous about the team....spezza is overpaid, hes kinda useless on most night and gets his points from the other 2 but the bad part about the cap involve fisher, gerber, vermette and kelly
Big T
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Please ref, please I am beggin, BC
Joined: 07.11.2006

Nov 30 @ 8:00 PM ET
there was a huge report on the cap system last month on the nhl network and they were reporting on teh sens and that if there was no cap they would be top 5 in money spent and that melnyk would of made sure not to have lost anyone....get ur facts straight, melnyk is more willing to put out his money in comparison to gillette.
- AlffyForPres


The Sens revenue is lower than the Habs, Melnyk would only compete for a short period of time.
AlffyForPres
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 01.15.2008

Nov 30 @ 8:01 PM ET
The Sens revenue is lower than the Habs, Melnyk would only compete for a short period of time.
- Big T


melnyk is a multi billion dollar guy whos only job right now is the sens...he doesnt care about anything else...and the sens make money they dont lose money
Big T
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Please ref, please I am beggin, BC
Joined: 07.11.2006

Nov 30 @ 8:04 PM ET
melnyk is a multi billion dollar guy whos only job right now is the sens...he doesnt care about anything else...and the sens make money they dont lose money
- AlffyForPres


The Sens make money because of the Cap, thats what it was designed to do so that teams like Ottawa etc could keep a guy like Spezza for 6 M instead of losing him to the Rangers for 11M would could afford 80 M -90M payrolls. At one point prior to the lock out, the Leafs payroll was over 80M.
LeafnsNxt2Godlyns
Location: Matt Stajan still sucks, even in Germany.
Joined: 07.20.2006

Nov 30 @ 9:26 PM ET
The thing is, they take up so much of the cap I think one does have to go.
- RogerRoeper

Well if you're rebuilding then that one clearly has to be 35-36 year old Alfredsson.
danielmacd
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 10.03.2005

Nov 30 @ 9:53 PM ET
melnyk is a multi billion dollar guy whos only job right now is the sens...he doesnt care about anything else...and the sens make money they dont lose money
- AlffyForPres


No he isn't. Not even close anymore. He would only fork out money if they still turned a profit. if he was a multi billionair he would have bought the leafs but he couldn't afford it and bought the sens for like 20 million using CIBC.
Sp00nz
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 08.29.2006

Nov 30 @ 10:28 PM ET
No he isn't. Not even close anymore. He would only fork out money if they still turned a profit. if he was a multi billionair he would have bought the leafs but he couldn't afford it and bought the sens for like 20 million using CIBC.
- danielmacd


He couldn't buy the leafs because MLSE would never sell them.

Melnyk bought the Sens for a lot more than 20 million, he also bought the stadium. Oh and just because he feels like it, he's willing to buy a pro soccer team and build the stadium for it.

People like Melnyk don't give a poop if their sports teams lose money. Its practically a hobby for guys as rich as he is. He just wants to win a championship so he brag about it to his billionaire buddys while they toss back dom perignon and hundred year old scotch in the caribean.
danielmacd
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 10.03.2005

Nov 30 @ 11:31 PM ET
He couldn't buy the leafs because MLSE would never sell them.

Melnyk bought the Sens for a lot more than 20 million, he also bought the stadium. Oh and just because he feels like it, he's willing to buy a pro soccer team and build the stadium for it.

People like Melnyk don't give a poop if their sports teams lose money. Its practically a hobby for guys as rich as he is. He just wants to win a championship so he brag about it to his billionaire buddys while they toss back dom perignon and hundred year old scotch in the caribean.

- Sp00nz


MLSE was for sale actually around the time he bought the senators. Sold by stavaro to Otpp in 2003. Thanks for coming out though.

It is not a hobby for guys are rich as he is. Its called a dream job! And he did not buy it t lose money. No one does.
Sp00nz
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 08.29.2006

Dec 1 @ 2:38 AM ET
MLSE was for sale actually around the time he bought the senators. Sold by stavaro to Otpp in 2003. Thanks for coming out though.

It is not a hobby for guys are rich as he is. Its called a dream job! And he did not buy it t lose money. No one does.

- danielmacd


Pretty arrogant from a guy who was duped into giving Eklund money

Of course Melnyk would rather make money, but i doubt losing a couple million a year would cost him any sleep. The guy is worth over a billion dollars.

The Senators would be fine, cap or no cap.
LeafnsNxt2Godlyns
Location: Matt Stajan still sucks, even in Germany.
Joined: 07.20.2006

Dec 1 @ 2:54 AM ET
Pretty arrogant from a guy who was duped into giving Eklund money

Of course Melnyk would rather make money, but i doubt losing a couple million a year would cost him any sleep. The guy is worth over a billion dollars.

The Senators would be fine, cap or no cap.

- Sp00nz

Ottawa's problem is Hartsburg, this guy is a terrible pro level coach he has the track record to prove it. Now he's trying to turn offensive players into defense first players, it's working only problem is the Sens can't score now....It's ridiculous really. If Ottawa's best chance to win is playing an all out offensive game then that's what they should be doing.
RogerRoeper
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 03.27.2007

Dec 1 @ 8:05 AM ET
Ottawa's problem is Hartsburg, this guy is a terrible pro level coach he has the track record to prove it. Now he's trying to turn offensive players into defense first players, it's working only problem is the Sens can't score now....It's ridiculous really. If Ottawa's best chance to win is playing an all out offensive game then that's what they should be doing.
- LeafnsNxt2Godlyns


How many coaches can they fire though?
nightmare3020
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Windsor Area, ON
Joined: 08.23.2006

Dec 1 @ 9:11 AM ET
Being realistic eh?

I think you're right tho, its not like any other team in the league would want players like Fisher, Volchenkov, Phillips, Kuba, Kelly or Ruutu.

They dont have a single good propsect either. Lee, Karhlson, O'brian, Bass, Zubov and Elliot should all just retire.

- Sp00nz


ok i over exaggerated but its to get the point across.
fisher has turned into an overpaid elite third liner... he is capable 2nd but thats not what his calling is. The pk and shutdown is what he can do not score.
Phillips is a good defensive guy but might be time for a new team for him depending the package they can get back since they have volchenkov
volchenkov i like
kuba is having a good year but hes not a true top end defender. Kelly can play D and ruutu oo no a run of the mill agitator
Lee is a good prospect very good but outside of that... alot of question marks
Karhlson ive heard should be good but time will tell. The others every team has prospects like them.

Your missing that top end prospect outside of lee and thats just my opinion
danielmacd
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 10.03.2005

Dec 1 @ 9:31 AM ET
Pretty arrogant from a guy who was duped into giving Eklund money

Of course Melnyk would rather make money, but i doubt losing a couple million a year would cost him any sleep. The guy is worth over a billion dollars.

The Senators would be fine, cap or no cap.

- Sp00nz


Again he is not worth a billion dollars and losing millions is not an option. Ottawa's problems are not coming or being solved by ownership. I think ottawa has done a really bad job drafting the last 5 years.
sens4life_
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 12.30.2006

Dec 1 @ 9:42 AM ET
ok i over exaggerated but its to get the point across.
fisher has turned into an overpaid elite third liner... he is capable 2nd but thats not what his calling is. The pk and shutdown is what he can do not score.
Phillips is a good defensive guy but might be time for a new team for him depending the package they can get back since they have volchenkov
volchenkov i like
kuba is having a good year but hes not a true top end defender. Kelly can play D and ruutu oo no a run of the mill agitator
Lee is a good prospect very good but outside of that... alot of question marks
Karhlson ive heard should be good but time will tell. The others every team has prospects like them.

Your missing that top end prospect outside of lee and thats just my opinion

- nightmare3020



Well its quite obvious why we don't have a possible top end prospect. We have picked between 20-30 for ages except lee who hasnt lived up to his potential yet.
sens4life_
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 12.30.2006

Dec 1 @ 9:44 AM ET
Again he is not worth a billion dollars and losing millions is not an option. Ottawa's problems are not coming or being solved by ownership. I think ottawa has done a really bad job drafting the last 5 years.
- danielmacd


He actually is worth billions...he is a top money maker in horse racing and could care less if he loses a couple million in the senators which is why he is trying to get an ottawa professional team. If he wasn't a money maker he couldn't afford two professional teams lol or am i wrong??
nightmare3020
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Windsor Area, ON
Joined: 08.23.2006

Dec 1 @ 9:49 AM ET
Well its quite obvious why we don't have a possible top end prospect. We have picked between 20-30 for ages except lee who hasnt lived up to his potential yet.
- sens4life_

thats why im saying the leafs are in a better position. The reason you dont have that top prospect is because you have done good for so many years...

we have restarted the rebuild, we have schenn, tlusty was a 13th overall pick, kulimen, garbovsky, stempniak, and all this youth is in the lineup. We dont have a spezza, heatley, or alfredson yet we are still in playoff contention.

We still hope to finish low in the standings, which means another low pick, and who knows burke might trade away kubina and kaberle which should all but kill our transition game and guarantee a top 3 pick.

IF ottawa ever chose to rebuild they would be able to get a TON of top prospects for the guys they have, but they will never do that so i think toronto is in a better place. ALso their cap is just a mess so its hard to bring in Ufa's


sens4life_
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 12.30.2006

Dec 1 @ 10:14 AM ET
thats why im saying the leafs are in a better position. The reason you dont have that top prospect is because you have done good for so many years...

we have restarted the rebuild, we have schenn, tlusty was a 13th overall pick, kulimen, garbovsky, stempniak, and all this youth is in the lineup. We dont have a spezza, heatley, or alfredson yet we are still in playoff contention.

We still hope to finish low in the standings, which means another low pick, and who knows burke might trade away kubina and kaberle which should all but kill our transition game and guarantee a top 3 pick.

IF ottawa ever chose to rebuild they would be able to get a TON of top prospects for the guys they have, but they will never do that so i think toronto is in a better place. ALso their cap is just a mess so its hard to bring in Ufa's

- nightmare3020


but your "top" picks might turn out to nothing...our picks are spezza and fisher and so on. We do not need to rebuild but we do need to make some trades. We need to build around heatley and spezza and fisher or whoever. Leafs are in a total rebuild which is not necesary for us. We should be back to being a contender in a year or two but the leafs need 3-4 years to be something imo.
Sens are in a better situation.
brewstir
Edmonton Oilers
Location: Brandon, MB
Joined: 06.25.2007

Dec 1 @ 10:50 AM ET
The leafs have only one Good Solid Blue chipper and that is Shenn. I know there is alot of hype... I mean hope for this team based on there play as of late, but les not get ahead of ourselves, the rebuild is still in effect. Burke's comments on Sundin pretty much tells Leaf fans that things are still going to get worse before they get better.

The Sens however are turning into the Bolts of a few years back. Showing us that haveing 3 really, really good high priced players can't get in done when they all play forward. The only really good news for the Sens is that because of the guys like Spez, Heater and Alfy they wouldn't so much of a rebuild as a re-tool.

Other noteables, I would rather have one owner than the board of MLE. Even with Burke now at the helm they are still going to slow down the process even when its obvious.... look how long it took to higher Burke when EVERYONE knew.

PS.> Sens fans have got to be looking a few year back to the Chara-Redden debate... whoops, how many people would want a mullagin on that one? add Chara to the team they have now and lets say that it would of cost them the ability to sign Spez so they lose him for nothing, are they still not a better team? I thing so...
Sp00nz
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 08.29.2006

Dec 1 @ 2:59 PM ET
Again he is not worth a billion dollars and losing millions is not an option. Ottawa's problems are not coming or being solved by ownership. I think ottawa has done a really bad job drafting the last 5 years.
- danielmacd


According to Forbes he is.

Its pretty hard to draft blue chippers when you're picking 25-30th for 5 or 6 years. It can be done, look at the Red Wings, but they just have an exceptional scouting staff.
danielmacd
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 10.03.2005

Dec 1 @ 11:24 PM ET
He actually is worth billions...he is a top money maker in horse racing and could care less if he loses a couple million in the senators which is why he is trying to get an ottawa professional team. If he wasn't a money maker he couldn't afford two professional teams lol or am i wrong??
- sens4life_


you are wrong.

http://www.canadianbusine...061204_83955_83955&page=6

That was also last year before the market crash. so pt that at about 60%. but yeah he is worth billions (plural)
nightmare3020
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Windsor Area, ON
Joined: 08.23.2006

Dec 2 @ 9:02 AM ET
well sens4life i guess we'll have to agree to disagree
by no means do i think either team is in great shape... i just think the leafs are the lesser of two evils
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Dec 2 @ 9:50 AM ET
well sens4life i guess we'll have to agree to disagree
by no means do i think either team is in great shape... i just think the leafs are the lesser of two evils

- nightmare3020


explain how the leafs have more and or better assets on their team and in their system.

example:

Senators top six forwards > leafs top six forwards
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