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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
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systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Aug 9 @ 11:04 PM ET
Just wondering....... let's say the leafs and Senators played a 7 game series to begin this coming season ........... who would win that series?
- D0PPELGANGER


Both teams would be winners before the puck drops for having such a poop team to play against.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Aug 10 @ 7:56 AM ET
Just like they do at the rookies tournaments?
- D0PPELGANGER

Yup, unfortunately the last time the Leafs faced Ottawa they had an invitee in net, and it tanked them.


Ottawa fans should know something about how important goaltending is, since a hot streak by an average goalie helped set back their attempted rebuild, and set expectations way too high for the following season, where they unsurprisingly failed to repeat.
systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Aug 10 @ 9:33 AM ET
Yup, unfortunately the last time the Leafs faced Ottawa they had an invitee in net, and it tanked them.


Ottawa fans should know something about how important goaltending is, since a hot streak by an average goalie helped set back their attempted rebuild, and set expectations way too high for the following season, where they unsurprisingly failed to repeat.

- Feeling Glucky?



At 90 years old when players just enter their prime there is no reason not to think Anderson will take the Sens to the playoffs.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Aug 10 @ 12:15 PM ET
At 90 years old when players just enter their prime there is no reason not to think Anderson will take the Sens to the playoffs.
- systemtool

I was talking about Hammond.


Though I can see why it was confusing, as I was being generous calling him "average"
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Aug 10 @ 12:17 PM ET
I was talking about Hammond.


Though I can see why it was confusing, as I was being generous calling him "average"

- Feeling Glucky?



Anderson can, at times, be a damn good goalie. on the whole, he's a middle of the pack starter. Doesn't have a lot of time left, no. Surely not enough time for the Sens to rebuild, and him to be around when they're done. So they might as well trade him off. But they won't.

the thing is, what has his hot streak a few years back, and Hammond's two years ago, really earned them in the end? Playoff revenue for Melnyk to siphon off for a few games and a crappier prospect. That's about it, really.
D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Aug 10 @ 3:45 PM ET
Anderson can, at times, be a damn good goalie. on the whole, he's a middle of the pack starter. Doesn't have a lot of time left, no. Surely not enough time for the Sens to rebuild, and him to be around when they're done. So they might as well trade him off. But they won't.

the thing is, what has his hot streak a few years back, and Hammond's two years ago, really earned them in the end? Playoff revenue for Melnyk to siphon off for a few games and a crappier prospect. That's about it, really.

- prock





But who wins the seven game series, no ties, loser points etc?
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Aug 10 @ 3:46 PM ET
But who wins the seven game series, no ties, loser points etc?
- D0PPELGANGER



As I said, I think it's probably close. could go either way.
Aetherial
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: he's 35, time to be fart the messenger boy.
Joined: 06.30.2006

Aug 10 @ 10:11 PM ET
Do you really believe what you just said. Marner is likely going back into junior for another year. This is when teams begin to worry that he cannot make the jump. I am telling you the reviews coming out of the USA WJC are not good on Marner. Nobody has panicked. But if goes back to junior you start to think that he is more Sam Gagner than Patrick Kane.
- spatso


Delete your account.

What I said was absolutely true.
D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Aug 10 @ 10:22 PM ET
As I said, I think it's probably close. could go either way.
- prock


So by not picking a team, it demonstrates that you know the Sens would win, but cannot bring yourself to post it.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Aug 11 @ 2:45 AM ET
So by not picking a team, it demonstrates that you know the Sens would win, but cannot bring yourself to post it.
- D0PPELGANGER



I think it is very hard to make direct comparisons between the Leafs and Senators anymore. I like what Shanahan has done and I think it important that the Leafs follow a rebuild schedule. They are in year 2 and if this is the year the kids get pushed up into starting roles it is normally a down year for the team and I don't think that is a bad thing for the Leafs in terms of overall development.

The Sens team should move up in the standings. Karlsson is a unique talent, the team is being shaped around him and the off season changes (Brossard and Kelly) plus the addition of Phaneuf before the deadline are all regarded as steps towards contending now. The Sens can score. They need structure and better defensive systems. People want to believe that Guy Boucher will be able to improve their overall defensive response and still maintain their scoring output.

It would be nice if both the Sens and Leafs made the playoffs. I think the Sens will chase Tampa in their Division and compete with Florida for 2nd place. I think the Leafs are still a few years off. We all know the blue and white media will pump tires leading into the season and raise expectations but nobody should take it too seriously. If the Sens do not make the playoffs it will be a huge disappointment. If the Leafs miss the playoffs it is just part of the development curve and no one should be disappointed.

sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Aug 11 @ 6:55 AM ET


You would trade any player on your team, except Karlsson, for Marner... and the Leafs wouldn't make any of those trades.

- Aetherial


I think you could rephrase that to "most players" and it would absolutely be true.

obviously karlsson is out...........I wouldn't trade stone for marner, I would also be very hesitant to move Hoffman for him.

I would trade any prospect in our organization.....no doubt.

there are a couple of other guys who I would have to think about, and it would be dependent on the direction the team was going (ie. full rebuild or tooling up to try and win in the next couple of years)......turris, ryan

no doubt he's gonna be good though......I could see him being another gaudreau. I'm hesitant to say he'll be as successful as gaudreau ( I hate saying guys are "can't miss" ) but the potential is certainly there.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Aug 11 @ 10:49 AM ET
So by not picking a team, it demonstrates that you know the Sens would win, but cannot bring yourself to post it.
- D0PPELGANGER



LOL.

Dopps, I dont think it matters one little bit. It makes not a lick of a difference. Neither team is anywhere near competing for a cup. The Sens, with their current core, will NEVER compete for a cup, and the Leafs might, but it's a few years off if they do.

So what happens this year makes no difference to either team.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Aug 11 @ 10:53 AM ET
I think you could rephrase that to "most players" and it would absolutely be true.

obviously karlsson is out...........I wouldn't trade stone for marner, I would also be very hesitant to move Hoffman for him.

I would trade any prospect in our organization.....no doubt.

there are a couple of other guys who I would have to think about, and it would be dependent on the direction the team was going (ie. full rebuild or tooling up to try and win in the next couple of years)......turris, ryan

no doubt he's gonna be good though......I could see him being another gaudreau. I'm hesitant to say he'll be as successful as gaudreau ( I hate saying guys are "can't miss" ) but the potential is certainly there.

- sensarmy_11


You woulidn't trade Bobby Ryan????

LOL.

He's pretty widely recognized as one of the worst contracts in the league. You'd have to add picks just to get rid of him.
Not_Yan
Montreal Canadiens
Location: it's an excellent product, easier, quicker, and even better than real mashed potatoes.
Joined: 04.19.2013

Aug 11 @ 10:53 AM ET
Marchand-Bergeron-Backes
Beleskey-Krejci-Vesey
Vatrano-Spooner-Pastrnak
Hayes-Nash-Randell

Chara-Krug
Miller-Miller
McQuaid-Liles
Morrow

Rask

- Cape Breton Bruins


LOL typical stupid Bruins forgetting to dress a goalie backup
D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Aug 11 @ 11:52 AM ET
LOL.

Dopps, I dont think it matters one little bit. It makes not a lick of a difference. Neither team is anywhere near competing for a cup. The Sens, with their current core, will NEVER compete for a cup, and the Leafs might, but it's a few years off if they do.

So what happens this year makes no difference to either team.

- prock



So you agree that the Sens would win a seven game series vs the leafs.

Can you define your interpretation of "compete for a cup", because I suspect it differs from the commonly accepted "Make the playoffs, win a round and see what happens" version.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Aug 11 @ 12:03 PM ET
So you agree that the Sens would win a seven game series vs the leafs.

Can you define your interpretation of "compete for a cup", because I suspect it differs from the commonly accepted "Make the playoffs, win a round and see what happens" version.

- D0PPELGANGER


You're so thick it's ridiculous. If there were a 7 game series, I'd put it at about 50/50 that either team wins. Yes, I think the Leafs would stand a solid shot at beating the Sens like they always have. They have FAR more talent in the organization, it's just raw at this point. If the Leafs kids, like Nylander, Matthews, Marner, and other outside shots at making the roster this year, adapt well, they'll be a better team THIS YEAR. If not, they will be next year. Not that I feel like that's a big accomplishment, because the Sens aren't a very good team. I don't give a shyt about being better than a 12th place team.

My interpretation of "compete for a cup" is basically top 3 in the conference. The stats on teams not finishing top 3 in the conference winning a cup are pretty eye opening. One once in NHL history has a team that finished outside the top 5 in a conference won the cup, and it rarely happens outside the top 3. Very rarely.

Make the playoffs, win a round, and see what happens is a myth when "see what happens" refers to winning a cup. that's something that management sells to their fans to put butts in the seats and make money.

But I don't know why you comment on "must be a different interpretation", because barring a miracle run by a goalie, I don't think the Sens are a playoff team. I think Sens fans will be female doging about some fabricated story of huge injuries killing their playoff chances, yet again.
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Aug 11 @ 12:33 PM ET
You woulidn't trade Bobby Ryan????

LOL.

He's pretty widely recognized as one of the worst contracts in the league. You'd have to add picks just to get rid of him.

- prock


I said it would depend on the situation...........if I were a team like the leafs who are in clear rebuild then I absolutely would. if I were a team like the pens or hawks who are absolutely in a win now time, then I wouldn't. the sens are in limbo, so it's a tough decision. I'd probably lean towards trading him, but I don't think it's a slam dunk decision.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Aug 11 @ 12:36 PM ET
I said it would depend on the situation...........if I were a team like the leafs who are in clear rebuild then I absolutely would. if I were a team like the pens or hawks who are absolutely in a win now time, then I wouldn't. the sens are in limbo, so it's a tough decision. I'd probably lean towards trading him, but I don't think it's a slam dunk decision.
- sensarmy_11



Getting rid of Bobby Ryan and his contract is a slam dunk decision, for much less than an elite prospect.

You can find 20 goal/mid 50s points, soft and one dimensional, lazy players in free agency for less.
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Aug 11 @ 12:56 PM ET
Getting rid of Bobby Ryan and his contract is a slam dunk decision, for much less than an elite prospect.

You can find 20 goal/mid 50s points, soft and one dimensional, lazy players in free agency for less.

- prock


your hatred and bias are hilarious........never change.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Aug 11 @ 1:02 PM ET
your hatred and bias are hilarious........never change.
- sensarmy_11



Hatred and bias?

Kyle Okposo has better production, not lazy, tougher, basically a better winger in every way.

And just signed in free agency for much less.

Loui Eriksson is another one.

Better wingers go for much less in free agency. It's a fact.

If the Sens were to decided to trade him, they wouldn't get much, if anything. they may have to package picks to get rid of him.

andrew Ladd would probably be a pretty good comparable to bobby Ryan. And most people balk at him at $5.5M.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Aug 11 @ 1:35 PM ET
You woulidn't trade Bobby Ryan????

LOL.

He's pretty widely recognized as one of the worst contracts in the league. You'd have to add picks just to get rid of him.

- prock

When I first read your comment, I thought he was saying he wouldn't trade Ryan in general.


Now I see it's for Marner.

prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Aug 11 @ 1:43 PM ET
When I first read your comment, I thought he was saying he wouldn't trade Ryan in general.


Now I see it's for Marner.


- Feeling Glucky?



I mean, I can see that they might not want to give up the picks it would take to get someone to take the guy, but if you have the option, to dump him and his contract for nothing, you do it, for sure. He's WAAAAAY overpaid. 20ish goals, 55ish points, on a soft lazy player is very easily replaceable for far less than $7M.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Aug 11 @ 1:54 PM ET
I mean, I can see that they might not want to give up the picks it would take to get someone to take the guy, but if you have the option, to dump him and his contract for nothing, you do it, for sure. He's WAAAAAY overpaid. 20ish goals, 55ish points, on a soft lazy player is very easily replaceable for far less than $7M.
- prock

Yea. I'd argue that your Ladd comparison is way off, since he actually brings grit and leadership.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Aug 12 @ 4:03 AM ET
I mean, I can see that they might not want to give up the picks it would take to get someone to take the guy, but if you have the option, to dump him and his contract for nothing, you do it, for sure. He's WAAAAAY overpaid. 20ish goals, 55ish points, on a soft lazy player is very easily replaceable for far less than $7M.
- prock


The Bobby Ryan trade was a mistake. But not as big a mistake as the contract he was given. I don't have any difficulty with the dollar value of the deal, my problem is with the term. Booby Ryan is not a very good technical skater. His mechanics have always been at the low end. He does have very good hands and strong net instincts. But, the skating problem is usually an obvious sign that his game will fall off significantly as soon as he begins to lose a step in speed. I think we saw some of the skating deficiencies become more apparent last year.

There are very few poor skaters (Brett Hull and Dave Andrachuck might be the exceptions) that survive as goal scorers once they lose that step in speed. Dany Heatley is probably the poster boy of a player with great hands and instincts but not a great technical skater. The day he lost a step, his NHL career was pretty much over. Hossa, on the other hand, is a very good technical skater and is still a strong presence on the ice despite having moved pretty high on the NHL age scale.

Joined: 12.31.1969

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