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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
Author Message
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Jul 21 @ 10:36 AM ET
Calm down chief. I know $20M is a massive difference maker. That's why just about every cup winning team pre-cap was in the top 6 or 8 in spending every year.

I disagreed with your statement that the Leafs were spending $50M more. At it's height, it was $20M more. Prior to the numbers I quoted, it was actually smaller. More like $10M to $15M.

- prock
Oh,I know. The closest we came was the last series ,just down the middle before that was just embarassly bad by comparision .Brian Smolinski and Todd white vrs Sundin and New
systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Jul 21 @ 10:37 AM ET
Because you mention, that our goalie isnt good over and over doesnt make it a correct statement

- top shelf 15



Does mentioning the fact the Sens were the worst team when it came to goals against make it correct? Or the fact he's 35 and declining line all normal athlet's do at that age make it correct? Got anything that proves it incorrect?
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Jul 21 @ 10:41 AM ET
Does mentioning the fact the Sens were the worst team when it came to goals against make it correct? Or the fact he's 35 and declining line all normal athlet's do at that age make it correct? Got anything that proves it incorrect?
- systemtool
Facing the most rubber in the past three seasons, a woefully inexperienced and latter found to be serverley flawed top 4 that feature guys like Cowen and Wiercioch and Boro in the top 6 ,other than that not much
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Jul 21 @ 10:45 AM ET
Does mentioning the fact the Sens were the worst team when it came to goals against make it correct? Or the fact he's 35 and declining line all normal athlet's do at that age make it correct? Got anything that proves it incorrect?
- systemtool



Just cause you say he's 35 doesn't make him 35.
systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Jul 21 @ 11:00 AM ET
Facing the most rubber in the past three seasons, a woefully inexperienced and latter found to be serverley flawed top 4 that feature guys like Cowen and Wiercioch and Boro in the top 6 ,other than that not much

- top shelf 15


So you're saying at soon to be 35 he will only get better?

Oh yes. The only flaws on the sens were former players faults.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jul 21 @ 11:01 AM ET
did someone point out to our buddy spatso that the sens also allowed 241 goals against? Good for the 6th worse record in the league?
- Pecafan Fan


Duh, I think that was the point I was making.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Jul 21 @ 11:07 AM ET
Facing the most rubber in the past three seasons, a woefully inexperienced and latter found to be serverley flawed top 4 that feature guys like Cowen and Wiercioch and Boro in the top 6 ,other than that not much

- top shelf 15

Man. Good thing Murray tricked Burke into drafting Kadri.


Burke was dead on with him. Said pre-draft that they were looking into his health issues, because if they were confident he'd stay healthy, they would take him.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Jul 21 @ 11:07 AM ET
Duh, I think that was the point I was making.
- spatso

Duh.


spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jul 21 @ 11:08 AM ET
Calm down chief. I know $20M is a massive difference maker. That's why just about every cup winning team pre-cap was in the top 6 or 8 in spending every year.

I disagreed with your statement that the Leafs were spending $50M more. At it's height, it was $20M more. Prior to the numbers I quoted, it was actually smaller. More like $10M to $15M.

- prock


I think you are correct on this as it relates to team payroll. Generally the salary structure of a team reflects the success a team has had on the ice. Pittsburg, Chicago, LA and Boston all recent Cup winners are hard against the Cap. Tampa is a very good young team and is fighting Cap issues. If you are not a contending team and you have Cap issues it is likely you have management issues as well. If you are a contender and you have cap issues it is just part of the game.
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Jul 21 @ 11:10 AM ET
Duh, I think that was the point I was making.
- spatso



Not mentioning it, pretty bad job of making said point.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jul 21 @ 11:11 AM ET
So you're saying at soon to be 35 he will only get better?

Oh yes. The only flaws on the sens were former players faults.

- systemtool


Anderson could be the weak link for the Sens. Some of the guys I know think his game fell off last year. I did not see it but the criticism was that he let in some third period goals he would have stopped in previous years.
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Jul 21 @ 11:12 AM ET
I think you are correct on this as it relates to team payroll. Generally the salary structure of a team reflects the success a team has had on the ice. Pittsburg, Chicago, LA and Boston all recent Cup winners are hard against the Cap. Tampa is a very good young team and is fighting Cap issues. If you are not a contending team and you have Cap issues it is likely you have management issues as well. If you are a contender and you have cap issues it is just part of the game.
- spatso



What about if you're not a contender and not a cap team and you make moves specifically designed to save actual cash at the expense of the future and if doesn't make you currently better?
systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Jul 21 @ 11:18 AM ET
Anderson could be the weak link for the Sens. Some of the guys I know think his game fell off last year. I did not see it but the criticism was that he let in some third period goals he would have stopped in previous years.
- spatso


Age is catching up to him. Sens should have traded for a goalie for the future. Or at least the now.
systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Jul 21 @ 11:19 AM ET
What about if you're not a contender and not a cap team and you make moves specifically designed to save actual cash at the expense of the future and if doesn't make you currently better?
- burn


Then you're the Leafs before the Shanahan era.
D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Jul 21 @ 11:26 AM ET
whoa. a reasonable post.



Now... without the willingness to spend money, and making deals that seem to be handicapping them furhter cap-wise, in order to save cash, coupled with medicore finishes that don't give them a good draft pick- along with trading 2nds for "win now" moves....


Where do you see the second and third "superstar" calibre players coming from?

- Feeling Glucky?



It never fails to amaze me at how out of touch with reality you are, in regards to the glaring differences between the toronto market and the Ottawa market. In leaf land money is not object, as the owners of the leafs can increase their already league high average ticket price higher and higher, knowing that leaf nation will continue to buy tickets, no matter the price. Approximately one third of Canada's entire population lives within an one hour drive (not accounting for traffic jams) of the acc. Ottawa has to budget, and manage money in a much different model than toronto ......... it's obvious to anyone with a grade 7 education ....... and for you to continually assume all other franchises have to follow the toronto model is quite revealing of this obvious blind spot in your hockey acumen.

I suspect that perhaps you just walk into any supermarket (when shopping for food), throw the items in you basket and pay for them without ever looking at prices and with any regards for next months budget.

I would suggest that scanning the flyers, going to a particular supermarket where you can fulfill your shopping requirements at a lower cost, so that next month you can use the extra cash to buy something special that you can use for a dinner party you've been planning for.


Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Jul 21 @ 11:27 AM ET
Age is catching up to him. Sens should have traded for a goalie for the future. Or at least the now.
- systemtool

I hear they're in talks to trade their next 3 2nds for Tim Thomas.
D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Jul 21 @ 11:28 AM ET
Man. Good thing Murray tricked Burke into drafting Kadri.


Burke was dead on with him. Said pre-draft that they were looking into his health issues, because if they were confident he'd stay healthy, they would take him.

- Feeling Glucky?


And he also had a time machine so he could check out his future injuries........
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Jul 21 @ 11:36 AM ET
Man. Good thing Murray tricked Burke into drafting Kadri.


Burke was dead on with him. Said pre-draft that they were looking into his health issues, because if they were confident he'd stay healthy, they would take him.

- Feeling Glucky?
Whatever i still think BM drafts the exact same way again ,not saying he didnt like Kadri ,but it was pretty obvious he valued the defender more at the time .High picks dont always work out ,in the end they are all really just educated guesses
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Jul 21 @ 11:41 AM ET
It never fails to amaze me at how out of touch with reality you are, in regards to the glaring differences between the toronto market and the Ottawa market. In leaf land money is not object, as the owners of the leafs can increase their already league high average ticket price higher and higher, knowing that leaf nation will continue to buy tickets, no matter the price. Approximately one third of Canada's entire population lives within an one hour drive (not accounting for traffic jams) of the acc. Ottawa has to budget, and manage money in a much different model than toronto ......... it's obvious to anyone with a grade 7 education ....... and for you to continually assume all other franchises have to follow the toronto model is quite revealing of this obvious blind spot in your hockey acumen.

I suspect that perhaps you just walk into any supermarket (when shopping for food), throw the items in you basket and pay for them without ever looking at prices and with any regards for next months budget.

I would suggest that scanning the flyers, going to a particular supermarket where you can fulfill your shopping requirements at a lower cost, so that next month you can use the extra cash to buy something special that you can use for a dinner party you've been planning for.

- D0PPELGANGER




I like how your new default response when you don't have an actual argument is to insinuate I'm bad with money/have money problems.
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Jul 21 @ 11:41 AM ET
whoa. a reasonable post.



Now... without the willingness to spend money, and making deals that seem to be handicapping them furhter cap-wise, in order to save cash, coupled with medicore finishes that don't give them a good draft pick- along with trading 2nds for "win now" moves....


Where do you see the second and third "superstar" calibre players coming from?

- Feeling Glucky?
Same place as you guys have been trying to find them .Right now we have the lead by one
D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Jul 21 @ 11:43 AM ET



I like how your new default response when you don't have an actual argument is to insinuate I'm bad with money/have money problems.

- Feeling Glucky?



So you totally missed the "difference between the markets" when I responded to your assertion that Ottawa doesn't spend like toronto does?


More than one blind spot eh?
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Jul 21 @ 11:43 AM ET
And he also had a time machine so he could check out his future injuries........
- D0PPELGANGER

Apparently, since he made the right call.


Or maybe the doctors that checked him out pre-draft said there was a high probability that he'd see further issues.


...which he did.


It's almost like you can use past and current data to draw conclusions about future events.
D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Jul 21 @ 11:44 AM ET
Same place as you guys have been trying to find them .Right now we have the lead by one

- top shelf 15



Stone is well on his way.

From Jan 1st 2015 through to the end of the last season, Stone was top three or four in points in entire NHL.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Jul 21 @ 11:44 AM ET
Same place as you guys have been trying to find them .Right now we have the lead by one

- top shelf 15

In the top part of the draft?
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Jul 21 @ 11:47 AM ET
So you totally missed the "difference between the markets" when I responded to your assertion that Ottawa doesn't spend like toronto does?


More than one blind spot eh?

- D0PPELGANGER


Sounds a lot like what I've been saying. Toronto can spend, Ottawa can't.

Ottawa is making moves to "win now", at the expense of the future and cap space, while reducing actual cost.

They're actually going out of their way to ensure they can't spend later.
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