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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
Author Message
senstroll
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Jan 4 @ 11:12 AM ET
I see a shift coming, Toronto has a home record of 9-5-4 and plays the next bunch at home 8 out of 9. Ottawa has an average away record and play 10 games on the road this month.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Jan 4 @ 11:32 AM ET
They're currently sitting in a playoff spot. Congrats. Spats always talks about it being not enough for the leafs simply to make the playoffs (i.e. that the leafs making the playoffs is no evidence that they are much closer to winning a cup than before).

Honest question: do you think the sens have shown they have cup contender goods simply by being in the playoff hunt? If so, I'd expect to get a little back-up next time spats claims a playoff berth for the leafs is essentially worthless.

Or, if you agree with spatso, are you touting this sens achievement more as a way to take a jab at the leafs than to celebrate your own team?

- Morris



I stand by my assessment of the NE Division I made at the beginning of the season.
http://www.hockeybuzz.com...hp?thread_id=90272&page=1

Within that thread, my predictions of how the Senators would fare this season, was heavily trashed by the usual suspects who need to do so, as it is their nature. I now, in this thread, and others, that compare the two Ontario teams, am pointing out that my predictions are a lot closer to the reality of today, than those who could not see the Senators being nothing but a 15th place team in the Conference, never mind the Division.

When the usual suspects threw out predictions that the leafs were "miles and miles ahead of the Senators in all areas", I'm simply pointing out how far off they were back in mid October.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jan 4 @ 11:33 AM ET
I see a shift coming, Toronto has a home record of 9-5-4 and plays the next bunch at home 8 out of 9. Ottawa has an average away record and play 10 games on the road this month.
- senstroll

Yeah, the Leafs just got past their hardest stretch of the season, and are going into a much easier stretch of games. No one is surprised they dropped a little. At least, I'm not. Their schedule in January is much more "normal".
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Jan 4 @ 11:35 AM ET
I see a shift coming, Toronto has a home record of 9-5-4 and plays the next bunch at home 8 out of 9. Ottawa has an average away record and play 10 games on the road this month.
- senstroll


I agree, the Senators will need all the puck luck this month, as road wins are much harder at this point of the season. They can't keep coming back in the latter stages of games, OT & SO for the rest of the season.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jan 4 @ 11:39 AM ET
I stand by my assessment of the NE Division I made at the beginning of the season.
http://www.hockeybuzz.com...hp?thread_id=90272&page=1

Within that thread, my predictions of how the Senators would fare this season, was heavily trashed by the usual suspects who need to do so, as it is their nature. I now, in this thread, and others, that compare the two Ontario teams, am pointing out that my predictions are a lot closer to the reality of today, than those who could not see the Senators being nothing but a 15th place team in the Conference, never mind the Division.

When the usual suspects threw out predictions that the leafs were "miles and miles ahead of the Senators in all areas", I'm simply pointing out how far off they were back in mid October.

- Doppleganger


Their roster is not very good at all. Just look at it. It's fine though, with Gonchar and Alfredsson helping boost the Sens out of a high draft pick, only to retire in a year or two, the Sens are just stretching out what it will take to rebuild. Especially while trading off picks and prospects for guys like Turris and Filatov (granted, I still think the Filatov trade was a good gamble).
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Jan 4 @ 11:41 AM ET
Yeah, the Leafs just got past their hardest stretch of the season, and are going into a much easier stretch of games. No one is surprised they dropped a little. At least, I'm not. Their schedule in January is much more "normal".
- prock


the leafs will need to take advantage of this run home games this month. When I say that, I tend to mean the line matching advantage, mid game coaching adjustments and with only two back to back games there is a lot of practice time available to Ron Wilson to take advantage of. This could be the make it or break it month for any leaf playoff aspirations.


prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jan 4 @ 11:43 AM ET
the leafs will need to take advantage of this run home games this month. When I say that, I tend to mean the line matching advantage, mid game coaching adjustments and with only two back to back games there is a lot of practice time available to Ron Wilson to take advantage of. This could be the make it or break it month for any leaf playoff aspirations.
- Doppleganger



It wouldn't surprise me to see them back in the 5th or 6th range by the end of Jan.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Jan 4 @ 11:51 AM ET
Their roster is not very good at all. Just look at it. It's fine though, with Gonchar and Alfredsson helping boost the Sens out of a high draft pick, only to retire in a year or two, the Sens are just stretching out what it will take to rebuild. Especially while trading off picks and prospects for guys like Turris and Filatov (granted, I still think the Filatov trade was a good gamble).
- prock


The third round pick for Filitov was a throw away pick, in a draft where Ottawa had an abundance of high picks (6 in the first 66 going in) that are now developing in the AHL, junior or in Europe. Don't worry, Ottawa has a lot more in the prospect pipeline than most teams, including the leafs.

Turris was selected third overall, and we'll see how he comes along over the remainder of the Season, and make a judgment if trading from a strength (defense) was worth filling a need (second line center).


I guess they could have gone the UFA route this past summer and signed an injury prone center, who has only played 266 games of the last 449 he could have over the past 5 seasons plus this current one.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Jan 4 @ 11:52 AM ET
It wouldn't surprise me to see them back in the 5th or 6th range by the end of Jan.
- prock


That's about right, I could see that.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jan 4 @ 12:02 PM ET
The third round pick for Filitov was a throw away pick, in a draft where Ottawa had an abundance of high picks (6 in the first 66 going in) that are now developing in the AHL, junior or in Europe. Don't worry, Ottawa has a lot more in the prospect pipeline than most teams, including the leafs.

Turris was selected third overall, and we'll see how he comes along over the remainder of the Season, and make a judgment if trading from a strength (defense) was worth filling a need (second line center).


I guess they could have gone the UFA route this past summer and signed an injury prone center, who has only played 266 games of the last 449 he could have over the past 5 seasons plus this current one.

- Doppleganger



When has Kyle Turris EVER shown he is capable of filling the second line centre role?

Just face it. It was a terrible trade. Murray basically just threw away what many considered the Sens best prospect, AND a pick, for a guy who is no longer expected to do much in the NHL.
senstroll
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Jan 4 @ 12:18 PM ET
Their roster is not very good at all. Just look at it. It's fine though, with Gonchar and Alfredsson helping boost the Sens out of a high draft pick, only to retire in a year or two, the Sens are just stretching out what it will take to rebuild. Especially while trading off picks and prospects for guys like Turris and Filatov (granted, I still think the Filatov trade was a good gamble).
- prock


the difference is Coaching, Its not a mistake that almost every "expert" predicted the sens would be near the bottom, it was a rough first couple weeks for the sens, but once they got used to Mclean, they have played above where they should be.

Look at Wash, St Louis new coaches better reults

The leafs are the opposite, old coach same thing... move him out
senstroll
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Jan 4 @ 12:23 PM ET
When has Kyle Turris EVER shown he is capable of filling the second line centre role?

Just face it. It was a terrible trade. Murray basically just threw away what many considered the Sens best prospect, AND a pick, for a guy who is no longer expected to do much in the NHL.

- prock


To me Turris is much like Bozak in what you will get in production... But the leafs didnt have to give up a blue chip prospect to get Bozak.

Turris has 4 points in 13 games this season ... If Turris put up Bozak numbers from this season i think the Sens would be very happy. 25 points in 35 games or 16g 42a over 82

I know there is a 3 year age difference, but they have almost the same NHL experience
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jan 4 @ 12:26 PM ET
To me Turris is much like Bozak in what you will get in production... But the leafs didnt have to give up a blue chip prospect to get Bozak.

Turris has 4 points in 13 games this season ... If Turris put up Bozak numbers from this season i think the Sens would be very happy. 25 points in 35 games or 16g 42a over 82

I know there is a 3 year age difference, but they have almost the same NHL experience

- senstroll



Well, obviously younger indicates more upside. But he's 22. The development curve isn't all that steep anymore after a few years of experience and age 22. Don't get me wrong, still there, but if a kid has solid scoring line potential, you'd hope he would show it by the time he's 22 and in his third NHL season. And Turris hasn't. I'd say Bozak type potential is probably a fairly accurate estimation. That's just potential though. He's still not there yet.
nightmare3020
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Windsor Area, ON
Joined: 08.23.2006

Jan 4 @ 12:46 PM ET
Not everyone.


- Doppleganger

so you are telling me you expected michalek to be in the top of the league in goals?
You expected karrlson to be a damn near PPG guy?

There have been some unexpected players having great years, sure you hoped but you would not have bet money on these seasons

also you said nothing to defend my stance that we apparently "hoped" the sens would be dead last, we made an estimate at the beginning of the year, just like you
senstroll
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Jan 4 @ 12:57 PM ET
Well, obviously younger indicates more upside. But he's 22. The development curve isn't all that steep anymore after a few years of experience and age 22. Don't get me wrong, still there, but if a kid has solid scoring line potential, you'd hope he would show it by the time he's 22 and in his third NHL season. And Turris hasn't. I'd say Bozak type potential is probably a fairly accurate estimation. That's just potential though. He's still not there yet.
- prock



I havent seen Turris play in Ottawa yet, so I really dont know how he has been.

Turris and Kadri are in similar places right now, young lots of potential, havent lived up to it yet. Kadri is a year younger and looks to be starting to fit in, making plays getting some points. I wonder if Ottawa would have sent the same package for Kadri...I understand they needed a Center, although not playing one in Toronto, he was drafted as one
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jan 4 @ 3:30 PM ET
Well, obviously younger indicates more upside. But he's 22. The development curve isn't all that steep anymore after a few years of experience and age 22. Don't get me wrong, still there, but if a kid has solid scoring line potential, you'd hope he would show it by the time he's 22 and in his third NHL season. And Turris hasn't. I'd say Bozak type potential is probably a fairly accurate estimation. That's just potential though. He's still not there yet.
- prock


I did not like the Turris trade because I believe that Rundblad has enormous upside. But, so far, Turris looks really good. He is playing very well with Alfredsen and my guess is he is going to be a serious offensive player by the end of the month.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jan 4 @ 3:32 PM ET
I did not like the Turris trade because I believe that Rundblad has enormous upside. But, so far, Turris looks really good. He is playing very well with Alfredsen and my guess is he is going to be a serious offensive player by the end of the month.
- spatso



So, mostly useless his entire career to this point, and suddenly develops into a serious offensive player within a month or two of going to Ottawa?

It's so comical how you say other people drink the Leaf Koolaid, when you make bigger Sens homer comments than 95% of Leaf fans.
TheTaoOfSemenko
Vegas Golden Knights
Joined: 07.01.2009

Jan 4 @ 3:54 PM ET
So, mostly useless his entire career to this point, and suddenly develops into a serious offensive player within a month or two of going to Ottawa?

It's so comical how you say other people drink the Leaf Koolaid, when you make bigger Sens homer comments than 95% of Leaf fans.

- prock

I've been saying Turris is overrated since he was drafted. My opinion has not changed. He's Rob Schremp redux.
senstroll
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Jan 4 @ 4:10 PM ET
Turris - serious offensive player

Bookmark this thread, we can revisit in a month
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Jan 4 @ 7:32 PM ET
I have watched both KT and DR7 play this year,and i can say KT is more nhl ready and has just as much upside as DR7 .He has played very well behind spezza and his 4 points have come in the 7 or so games he has been here.Not to mention the team has played a lot better with him in the lineup than with DR7.

This isnt to say that DR wont be a great player ,but to say KT wont is pretty premature at this point.I have seen the offensive flashes with KT just as i saw with DR.The only difference is that KT is much more comfortable with NA game and isnt a liabilty on the ice such as DR is currently.

BM and the scouts who drafted DR seem to think KT was worth what they paid for him ,so i,am good with the whole trade
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jan 4 @ 11:02 PM ET
I have watched both KT and DR7 play this year,and i can say KT is more nhl ready and has just as much upside as DR7 .He has played very well behind spezza and his 4 points have come in the 7 or so games he has been here.Not to mention the team has played a lot better with him in the lineup than with DR7.

This isnt to say that DR wont be a great player ,but to say KT wont is pretty premature at this point.I have seen the offensive flashes with KT just as i saw with DR.The only difference is that KT is much more comfortable with NA game and isnt a liabilty on the ice such as DR is currently.

BM and the scouts who drafted DR seem to think KT was worth what they paid for him ,so i,am good with the whole trade

- top shelf 15


More NHL ready maybe. His upside is very limited though. Seriously, the Bozak comparison was pretty good. Look at the parralels their careers have had.
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Jan 4 @ 11:41 PM ET
More NHL ready maybe. His upside is very limited though. Seriously, the Bozak comparison was pretty good. Look at the parralels their careers have had.
- prock

One is a college player that wasnt drafted,but signed as a ufa the other was a highly rated prospect drafted 3rd overall.So really dont see what you are onto here .

How do you know for certain his upside is limited???,again ill trust Sens management on his overall potential because they seem to think it pretty high
senstroll
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Jan 5 @ 8:31 AM ET
One is a college player that wasnt drafted,but signed as a ufa the other was a highly rated prospect drafted 3rd overall.So really dont see what you are onto here .

How do you know for certain his upside is limited???,again ill trust Sens management on his overall potential because they seem to think it pretty high

- top shelf 15


Thats what happens when your team overachieves and management makes a silly trade to try to be better now and not rebuild properly.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jan 5 @ 8:41 AM ET
One is a college player that wasnt drafted,but signed as a ufa the other was a highly rated prospect drafted 3rd overall.So really dont see what you are onto here .

How do you know for certain his upside is limited???,again ill trust Sens management on his overall potential because they seem to think it pretty high

- top shelf 15


for 3 years they played in the same league, 05 to 07 in the bchl, and 07/08 in the NCAA. In every year very similar production. Given how common knowledge it is turris hasn't really progressed since being drafted, I'd say its reasonable to say if he can pick it back up, in a couple of years he can maybe catch back up to Bozak.
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Jan 5 @ 8:50 AM ET
Thats what happens when your team overachieves and management makes a silly trade to try to be better now and not rebuild properly.
- senstroll

How are we not rebuilding properly??We used a prospect and a pick to get a young player that can fill a role now ,and has enough upside to be core piece for the future.

We still have our first and some tradable veteran pieces to trade for more picks if need be.Ottawa,s youth has and will be brought along slowly,we have tons of prospects and young players in the pipeline with more coming next season .And while none look to be of the franchise superstar variety,ottawa will start to have tremendous depth of very good to decent players that will make the team that much better .

Add to this the loads of cap space we will have moving forward ,by developing our depth instead of trying to create it, by spending it on marginal tallent that always seems to be overpriced in the Fa market.This will leave ottawa in good position to make aquisition,s without worry of salary cap implications, thus leaving ottawa a young competitive team with lots of flexabilty and room to grow and get better
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