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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
Author Message
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: tenav for drouin. lol @ canucks
Joined: 03.14.2014

Jun 11 @ 9:28 AM ET
It is important to properly read the signals when you see Leaf fans reverting to anger, threatening tactics, name calling and personal insults. The responses are essentially self protective. These fans believe they have been beaten around so badly, especially over the last few years. They have been ridiculed, trivialized and dismissed. They have been excluded from the competitive hockey debate. So, they make irrational hockey claims. They come to despise anyone who forces them to face reality.

This summer is about a grand illusion. Matthews, they tell themselves, can do better than Tavares, Stamkos or Eichel or, dare we even say, McDavid. He will instantly pull the Leafs into the playoff mix in his first year and "we will matter again."

When the reality of the situation finally settles into the thinking of Leaf fans they will revert to lashing out against others. They are unconsciously trying to inflict the humiliation they feel unto to others. They want others to know the pain that they are living every day. Leaf fans, for example, do not hate Karlsson. They just intuitively know that he causes them so much pain. It has everything to do with how much Senator fans love Karlsson. They adore his skill his speed and the fact that he is so unique and special. He laughs, he smiles and delights. He is so much like Alphie and entirely fused into our hearts. Leaf fans just want a player who is special for them, someone to love, somebody that they know they can believe in.

One last thought. Shame is always held together by a deeply held wound. You can only escape the wound by naming it, by defining and by choosing not to let it define you from the secret recesses of your own mind. I stopped feeling ashamed when I finally stopped drinking the blue and white kool aid and called out and named the pain. When I publicly let go of the Leafs, when I chose to no longer carry the burden of their failure, I became free. So, I understand their bitterness, their invective and mostly their hurt. I understand how badly they have suffered. I try not to add to that suffering by responding in kind when they become so disrespectful of others.

- spatso


#deleteyouraccount
prock
Nashville Predators
Location: Nice to know how comfortable t, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jun 11 @ 4:15 PM ET
So the owners do NOT pass this cost (13 Million) onto the fans, via increased ticket prices, or higher insurance premiums??? You really think that they just absorb this cost and take it away from their bottom lines? Do you not think they're in business to turn as much profit as possible?
- D0PPELGANGER



you know what else doesn't get passed on to our fans? The millions and millions of dollars of revenue sharing that have gone from the Leafs, over the years, to other sad sack franchises like the Sens that no one cares about, who can't fill their own arena.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jun 11 @ 7:13 PM ET
you know what else doesn't get passed on to our fans? The millions and millions of dollars of revenue sharing that have gone from the Leafs, over the years, to other sad sack franchises like the Sens that no one cares about, who can't fill their own arena.
- prock


Bizarre! Every sport has revenue sharing. You never hear this kind of whining in the NFL. Keep it simple, the only reason why we have to listen to so much whining and blaming coming out of Leaf fans is because of their frustration with their own performance. Do you think if the Leafs made the playoffs and periodically contended we would be subjected to these ongoing rants inspired by nothing other than pure self-pity?
Steven_Stamkos
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Doesn't like this
Joined: 05.08.2016

Jun 11 @ 7:19 PM ET
Bizarre! Every sport has revenue sharing. You never hear this kind of whining in the NHL. Keep it simple, the only reason why we have to listen to so much whining and blaming coming out of Leaf fans is because of their frustration with their own performance. Do you think if the Leafs made the playoffs and periodically contended we would be subjected to these ongoing rants inspired by nothing other than pure self-pity?
- spatso


A few more better players and things should change quickly.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jun 12 @ 4:31 AM ET
A few more better players and things should change quickly.
- Steven_Stamkos


Well Steven we need to be realistic and ask ourselves where the Leafs have the greatest need for improvement. Clearly, the deficiency is most apparent on their blue line and in goal. So far, they have not done much to remedy the dismantling that occurred leading up to the trade deadline of last year. They have signed a KHL Dman who has a somewhat promising reputation. But, as of now, it would appear that they will head to training camp knowing they will be giving up more goals than they will be scoring.

At this time, I do not see anything that suggests the Leafs are the least bit interested in being anything other than a lottery team for another year. Long term, I think it is a wise strategy. But, most Leaf fans have not yet processed that reality.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jun 12 @ 6:11 AM ET
I wonder what kind of deep wounds make you feel like you need to rant like this, in not one but two posts. I think your wounds extend beyond once pretending to be a Leafs fan.
- Feeling Glucky?


25 years ago Eastern Ontario was comprised of Leaf and Canadiens fans with a small smattering of others added in for flavour. My moving over to become a full fledged Sens fan was just a natural progression. My passion for the Leafs was something I shared with my grandfather every Saturday night. Letting it go had more to do with my fond memories of him than it did for the Leafs.

In the process of moving forward, I was shocked to discover just how much the integrity of the entire MLSE complex had become corrupted. They outright lied to their fan base; they had little interest in succeeding on the ice; they maintained a singular interest in making money and, for the most part, they were entirely indifferent to the concerns of the fans in wanting a successful team. I believe Shanahan deserves huge credit for turning much of this thinking around. I believe the Leafs are doing a great job in heading in the right direction. A direction that I argued for all through the corrupt Burke years. The low point for me was the Kessel deal.

But, the past is the past and I am more than content to be a full fledged Sens fan. Perhaps I was a Sens fan before I publicly came out. Coming out is not an easy thing to do when you have been in the closet for a very long time. Even today, some family members (all huge Sens fans) believe that I am still blue and white at my very core. They take great pleasure in teasing me for every abysmal Leaf performance. They prefer me as a Leaf fan and it disappoints them that I am not available to be ridiculed every time the Leafs fail again.

If you go back and read the stuff I have written on this site for the better part of 10 years you will see that I have been pretty consistent in my thoughts and opinions. I have no difficulty in being wrong and admitting to it. Perhaps, I take myself less seriously than a lot of the other fellows who enjoy talking hockey. But, I believe what I believe and I am happy to share my opinions with others.
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: GMTM on Eichel: "He certainly won't get his pee pee slapped by me for being a little more outspoken., ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Jun 12 @ 7:39 AM ET
25 years ago Eastern Ontario was comprised of Leaf and Canadiens fans with a small smattering of others added in for flavour. My moving over to become a full fledged Sens fan was just a natural progression. My passion for the Leafs was something I shared with my grandfather every Saturday night. Letting it go had more to do with my fond memories of him than it did for the Leafs.

In the process of moving forward, I was shocked to discover just how much the integrity of the entire MLSE complex had become corrupted. They outright lied to their fan base; they had little interest in succeeding on the ice; they maintained a singular interest in making money and, for the most part, they were entirely indifferent to the concerns of the fans in wanting a successful team. I believe Shanahan deserves huge credit for turning much of this thinking around. I believe the Leafs are doing a great job in heading in the right direction. A direction that I argued for all through the corrupt Burke years. The low point for me was the Kessel deal.

But, the past is the past and I am more than content to be a full fledged Sens fan. Perhaps I was a Sens fan before I publicly came out. Coming out is not an easy thing to do when you have been in the closet for a very long time. Even today, some family members (all huge Sens fans) believe that I am still blue and white at my very core. They take great pleasure in teasing me for every abysmal Leaf performance. They prefer me as a Leaf fan and it disappoints them that I am not available to be ridiculed every time the Leafs fail again.

If you go back and read the stuff I have written on this site for the better part of 10 years you will see that I have been pretty consistent in my thoughts and opinions. I have no difficulty in being wrong and admitting to it. Perhaps, I take myself less seriously than a lot of the other fellows who enjoy talking hockey. But, I believe what I believe and I am happy to share my opinions with others.

- spatso



prock
Nashville Predators
Location: Nice to know how comfortable t, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jun 12 @ 5:26 PM ET
Bizarre! Every sport has revenue sharing. You never hear this kind of whining in the NFL. Keep it simple, the only reason why we have to listen to so much whining and blaming coming out of Leaf fans is because of their frustration with their own performance. Do you think if the Leafs made the playoffs and periodically contended we would be subjected to these ongoing rants inspired by nothing other than pure self-pity?
- spatso



if I'm talking about it not getting passed onto fans, why would i be whining.

It''s not whining.

I'm just pointing out, Sens fans should be more thankful to the Toronto Maple Leafs. I know they've never gotten past them in the playoffs and all, but they should still remember, they wouldn't be in the NHL at all if not for the Leafs.
prock
Nashville Predators
Location: Nice to know how comfortable t, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jun 12 @ 5:33 PM ET
Well Steven we need to be realistic and ask ourselves where the Leafs have the greatest need for improvement. Clearly, the deficiency is most apparent on their blue line and in goal. So far, they have not done much to remedy the dismantling that occurred leading up to the trade deadline of last year. They have signed a KHL Dman who has a somewhat promising reputation. But, as of now, it would appear that they will head to training camp knowing they will be giving up more goals than they will be scoring.

At this time, I do not see anything that suggests the Leafs are the least bit interested in being anything other than a lottery team for another year. Long term, I think it is a wise strategy. But, most Leaf fans have not yet processed that reality.

- spatso



I would love for them to be a lottery team for another year. Elite players are what cup contenders are built from.

The last several cup winners have all built their roster with key players coming from the top spots in the draft - Pittsburgh picked up two of the top 3 or 4 forwards in the league in Crosby and Malkin, Chicago with the best two way player in the league in Toews, and one of the best offensive players in the league in Kane, LA picked up the best dman in the league in Doughty.

it's been 8 years since a team without a top 2 draft pick has won the cup.
D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Jun 12 @ 9:27 PM ET
I would love for them to be a lottery team for another year. Elite players are what cup contenders are built from.

The last several cup winners have all built their roster with key players coming from the top spots in the draft - Pittsburgh picked up two of the top 3 or 4 forwards in the league in Crosby and Malkin, Chicago with the best two way player in the league in Toews, and one of the best offensive players in the league in Kane, LA picked up the best dman in the league in Doughty.

it's been 8 years since a team without a top 2 draft pick has won the cup.

- prock


So the Oilers should be winning a Cup or two in the near future?
prock
Nashville Predators
Location: Nice to know how comfortable t, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jun 12 @ 9:54 PM ET
So the Oilers should be winning a Cup or two in the near future?
- D0PPELGANGER



I think they could. They've got a better chance to win one in the next 5 years than probably 20-25 other teams at this point.

but there are a lot of teams in the last 5 years with top 2-3 picks. there is no guarantee. anywhere. other than teams with no budget and no top picks won't win one. It takes a lot of things to win a cup. it requires spending to/near the cap. it takes some elite talent drafted. some good trading. greating signings. a full budget. good coaching.
habman75
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Une plotzza, une plotine, and , QC
Joined: 09.07.2007

Jun 13 @ 1:18 AM ET
I think they could. They've got a better chance to win one in the next 5 years than probably 20-25 other teams at this point.

but there are a lot of teams in the last 5 years with top 2-3 picks. there is no guarantee. anywhere. other than teams with no budget and no top picks won't win one. It takes a lot of things to win a cup. it requires spending to/near the cap. it takes some elite talent drafted. some good trading. greating signings. a full budget. good coaching.

- prock



Never thought I would see the day, but Prock makes sense here.

A couple of years ago, Ottawa had a far better future than the Leafs. A couple of years later, the roles have absolutely reversed. There is simply no debate anymore. Ottawa have NOTHING in their system which comes close to comparing to the Leafs.

To the Spatso's and Dopp's of Sen's land. JUST STOP IT! You could not seem more ridiculous if you tried...

This is coming from a Habs fan who hates the Leafs.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jun 13 @ 4:11 AM ET
Never thought I would see the day, but Prock makes sense here.

A couple of years ago, Ottawa had a far better future than the Leafs. A couple of years later, the roles have absolutely reversed. There is simply no debate anymore. Ottawa have NOTHING in their system which comes close to comparing to the Leafs.

To the Spatso's and Dopp's of Sen's land. JUST STOP IT! You could not seem more ridiculous if you tried...

This is coming from a Habs fan who hates the Leafs.

- habman75


I do believe the Leafs are headed in the right direction and it is a direction they should have taken even before Brian Burke came on the scene. I think history has proven that to be correct. I believe the Oilers will emerge as a dominant team over the next 10 years. They are missing an elite Dman. They have the assets to acquire the missing pieces. I think they will begin to move up in the standings beginning as early as this coming year. But, let's be serious and count the number of years it has taken the Oil to rebuild. How long from when the Islanders drafted Tavares before they could fully compete as a Stanley Cup contender? Rebuilds are not a straight line process and the Leafs still have a long, long way to go. Remember lots of teams have been in a perpetual rebuild for many, many years.

I am not prepared to discount this version of the Senators. However, I think they have made a couple of serious miscalculations. I strongly supported trading Spezza and the need to move forward with new leadership. But, I think trading for Bobby Ryan was not a positive step. Good guy, solid team player but just a really bad fit in terms of the overall structure of the team. I do like the deal for Phaneuf because teams win on defence and Ottawa needs badly to shore up their second pairing.

I believe Karlsson is about to have his first truly great season. He can win both the Norris and the Hart Trophies. As good as he has been over the past few years he still has another gear. I think Boucher has made it very clear that he is going to try and get even more out of Karlsson while playing him a few less minutes each game.

Al McGuire the great basketball coach always said that a team can only afford one superstar as their will never be enough glory for the second superstar. Ottawa has their superstar and they need to do a better job of responding to that reality. We will know after 25 games if Boucher has been able to make it work.


golfingsince
Location: The losers tonight are the people.-QP
Joined: 11.30.2011

Jun 13 @ 8:08 AM ET
I do believe the Leafs are headed in the right direction and it is a direction they should have taken even before Brian Burke came on the scene. I think history has proven that to be correct. I believe the Oilers will emerge as a dominant team over the next 10 years. They are missing an elite Dman. They have the assets to acquire the missing pieces. I think they will begin to move up in the standings beginning as early as this coming year. But, let's be serious and count the number of years it has taken the Oil to rebuild. How long from when the Islanders drafted Tavares before they could fully compete as a Stanley Cup contender? Rebuilds are not a straight line process and the Leafs still have a long, long way to go. Remember lots of teams have been in a perpetual rebuild for many, many years.

I am not prepared to discount this version of the Senators. However, I think they have made a couple of serious miscalculations. I strongly supported trading Spezza and the need to move forward with new leadership. But, I think trading for Bobby Ryan was not a positive step. Good guy, solid team player but just a really bad fit in terms of the overall structure of the team. I do like the deal for Phaneuf because teams win on defence and Ottawa needs badly to shore up their second pairing.

I believe Karlsson is about to have his first truly great season. He can win both the Norris and the Hart Trophies. As good as he has been over the past few years he still has another gear. I think Boucher has made it very clear that he is going to try and get even more out of Karlsson while playing him a few less minutes each game.

Al McGuire the great basketball coach always said that a team can only afford one superstar as their will never be enough glory for the second superstar. Ottawa has their superstar and they need to do a better job of responding to that reality. We will know after 25 games if Boucher has been able to make it work.

- spatso


A different sport completely. Basketball teams only play 8 or so guys a game. Even then, the showtime Lakers had Magic and Kareem.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jun 13 @ 8:44 AM ET
A different sport completely. Basketball teams only play 8 or so guys a game. Even then, the showtime Lakers had Magic and Kareem.
- golfingsince


I think the point you make is valid but the lesson endures. Great NHL teams are usually built around very few elite players and a few very good ones. Typically if you are starting a team from scratch you want a dominant centre and play controlling #1 Dman. In addition, you want a good goalie, a power forward, a speed forward and a steady, physical #2 Dman.

You obviously need more than that but that is the bare requirement for beginning success. The Oilers have a bundle of great young forwards. But they do not have a #1D and it dramatically impacts on their ability to compete at either end of the ice.
prock
Nashville Predators
Location: Nice to know how comfortable t, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jun 13 @ 8:54 AM ET
A different sport completely. Basketball teams only play 8 or so guys a game. Even then, the showtime Lakers had Magic and Kareem.
- golfingsince



dwayne wade and lebron. Shaq and Kobe. Shaq and Wade. And of course, Jordan/Pippen (among others worth mentioning).
prock
Nashville Predators
Location: Nice to know how comfortable t, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jun 13 @ 8:56 AM ET
I think the point you make is valid but the lesson endures. Great NHL teams are usually built around very few elite players and a few very good ones. Typically if you are starting a team from scratch you want a dominant centre and play controlling #1 Dman. In addition, you want a good goalie, a power forward, a speed forward and a steady, physical #2 Dman.

You obviously need more than that but that is the bare requirement for beginning success. The Oilers have a bundle of great young forwards. But they do not have a #1D and it dramatically impacts on their ability to compete at either end of the ice.

- spatso



Pens have 2 elite forwards and an elite dman. chicago has 2 elite forwards and an elite dman. LA has an elite forward, several top forwards, and the best dman in the league.

generally at least 3 elite players.
AGalchenyuk27
Montreal Canadiens
Location: He was responsible for the term “Gordie Howe hat trick”, where a player scored a goal, added an , NB
Joined: 02.05.2013

Jun 13 @ 8:57 AM ET
dwayne wade and lebron. Shaq and Kobe. Shaq and Wade. And of course, Jordan/Pippen (among others worth mentioning).
- prock

Steph and Klay- 2 of the best shooters in NBA history.
D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Jun 13 @ 9:02 AM ET
Pens have 2 elite forwards and an elite dman. chicago has 2 elite forwards and an elite dman. LA has an elite forward, several top forwards, and the best dman in the league.

generally at least 3 elite players.

- prock


So who do you see as the leafs (future) 2 elite forwards and (future) elite D man?

You made no mention of a bonafide starting goaltender .......... but I suspect that was an oversight ............ do you see a bonafide starting goaltender in their system?
senstroll
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Jun 13 @ 9:23 AM ET
So the Oilers should be winning a Cup or two in the near future?
- D0PPELGANGER


a team that drafted #1, #2, #1, #2 just won a 2nd cup

sometimes it works


prock
Nashville Predators
Location: Nice to know how comfortable t, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jun 13 @ 10:15 AM ET
So who do you see as the leafs (future) 2 elite forwards and (future) elite D man?

You made no mention of a bonafide starting goaltender .......... but I suspect that was an oversight ............ do you see a bonafide starting goaltender in their system?

- D0PPELGANGER


Goalies are a crapshoot. Who knows if the leafs do or do not have one in their system. Its not like any of the recent cup winning goalies were highly touted, drafted, or even considered elite prior to winning a cup. Several of the goalies on top teams right now were acquired for near nothing as well. Ben bishop for example. Cory Schneider didn't cost that much in retrospect.

I've always felt having a good team build in front of a bad goalie is far better than a bad team in front of a good goalie. A bad goalie can let a team build without hurting draft position. A good goalie can leave a team drafting in bad spots. a goalie is one player, which is much easier to fix than the alternative. Add the goalie last in my opinion.

take for example the habs. price has FINALLY showed the elite potential habs fans chirped about for so many years, but it's clear they don't have the team to go the distance aside from him. They have a dilemma in trying to add top players through the draft while price earns them playoff spots, nearly singlehandedly. him being out a year, or having another off year, may be a blessing in disguise.

to answer your question, Matthews, marner, nylander, allhave elite potential. Its prospects. Have a few with that potential and hope a couple get to full potential. Rielly has an outside shot on d, but is probably more of a step below elite at his max potential.
D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Jun 13 @ 10:57 AM ET
Goalies are a crapshoot. Who knows if the leafs do or do not have one in their system. Its not like any of the recent cup winning goalies were highly touted, drafted, or even considered elite prior to winning a cup. Several of the goalies on top teams right now were acquired for near nothing as well. Ben bishop for example. Cory Schneider didn't cost that much in retrospect.

I've always felt having a good team build in front of a bad goalie is far better than a bad team in front of a good goalie. A bad goalie can let a team build without hurting draft position. A good goalie can leave a team drafting in bad spots. a goalie is one player, which is much easier to fix than the alternative. Add the goalie last in my opinion.

take for example the habs. price has FINALLY showed the elite potential habs fans chirped about for so many years, but it's clear they don't have the team to go the distance aside from him. They have a dilemma in trying to add top players through the draft while price earns them playoff spots, nearly singlehandedly. him being out a year, or having another off year, may be a blessing in disguise.

to answer your question, Matthews, marner, nylander, allhave elite potential. Its prospects. Have a few with that potential and hope a couple get to full potential. Rielly has an outside shot on d, but is probably more of a step below elite at his max potential.

- prock


Do all three start their NHL Careers together next season?
senstroll
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Jun 13 @ 12:06 PM ET
Do all three start their NHL Careers together next season?
- D0PPELGANGER



Matthews will be in the NHL
Nylander played 22 games, scored at a 48 point pace..he will be in the NHL..

Marner is the wild card, but based on his past season winning every major award possible and having 174 points in 79 games (2.20ppg) ..hard to see him not getting a start with the Leafs..then possibly sent to MJC
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jun 13 @ 3:32 PM ET
dwayne wade and lebron. Shaq and Kobe. Shaq and Wade. And of course, Jordan/Pippen (among others worth mentioning).
- prock


What McGuire meant and he was often called upon to explain it is that superstar is the man. Pippin was a great player but everyone knew who would be running the show when it mattered. LA had to decide between Shaq and Kobi as the room could not handle two oversized egos. Lebron is the franchise wherever he is.


Joined: 12.31.1969

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219, 220, 221, 222, 223, 224, 225, 226, 227, 228, 229, 230, 231, 232, 233, 234, 235, 236, 237, 238, 239, 240, 241, 242, 243, 244, 245, 246, 247, 248, 249, 250, 251, 252, 253, 254, 255, 256, 257, 258, 259, 260, 261, 262, 263, 264, 265, 266, 267, 268, 269, 270, 271, 272, 273, 274, 275, 276, 277, 278, 279, 280, 281, 282, 283, 284, 285, 286, 287, 288, 289, 290, 291, 292, 293, 294, 295, 296, 297, 298, 299, 300, 301, 302, 303, 304, 305, 306, 307, 308, 309, 310, 311, 312, 313, 314, 315, 316, 317, 318, 319, 320, 321, 322, 323, 324, 325, 326, 327, 328, 329, 330, 331, 332, 333, 334, 335, 336, 337, 338, 339, 340, 341, 342, 343, 344, 345, 346, 347, 348, 349, 350, 351, 352, 353, 354, 355, 356, 357, 358, 359, 360, 361, 362, 363, 364, 365, 366, 367, 368, 369, 370, 371, 372, 373, 374, 375, 376, 377, 378, 379, 380, 381, 382, 383, 384, 385, 386, 387, 388, 389, 390, 391, 392, 393, 394, 395, 396, 397, 398, 399, 400, 401, 402, 403, 404, 405, 406, 407, 408, 409, 410, 411, 412, 413, 414, 415, 416, 417, 418, 419, 420, 421, 422, 423, 424, 425, 426, 427, 428, 429, 430, 431, 432, 433, 434, 435, 436, 437, 438, 439, 440, 441, 442, 443, 444, 445, 446, 447, 448, 449, 450, 451, 452, 453, 454, 455, 456, 457, 458, 459, 460, 461, 462, 463, 464, 465, 466, 467, 468, 469, 470, 471, 472, 473, 474, 475, 476, 477, 478, 479, 480, 481, 482, 483, 484, 485, 486, 487, 488, 489, 490, 491, 492, 493, 494, 495, 496, 497, 498, 499, 500, 501, 502, 503, 504, 505, 506, 507, 508, 509, 510, 511, 512, 513, 514, 515, 516, 517, 518, 519, 520, 521, 522, 523, 524, 525, 526, 527, 528, 529, 530, 531, 532, 533, 534, 535, 536, 537, 538, 539, 540, 541, 542, 543, 544, 545, 546, 547, 548, 549, 550, 551, 552, 553, 554, 555, 556, 557, 558, 559, 560, 561, 562, 563, 564, 565, 566, 567, 568, 569, 570, 571, 572, 573, 574, 575, 576, 577, 578, 579, 580, 581, 582, 583, 584, 585, 586, 587, 588, 589, 590, 591, 592, 593, 594, 595, 596, 597, 598, 599, 600, 601, 602, 603, 604, 605, 606, 607, 608, 609, 610, 611, 612, 613, 614, 615, 616, 617, 618, 619, 620, 621, 622, 623, 624, 625, 626, 627, 628, 629, 630, 631, 632, 633, 634, 635, 636, 637, 638, 639, 640, 641, 642, 643, 644, 645, 646, 647, 648, 649, 650, 651, 652, 653, 654, 655, 656, 657, 658, 659, 660, 661, 662, 663, 664, 665, 666, 667, 668, 669, 670, 671, 672, 673, 674, 675, 676, 677, 678, 679, 680, 681, 682, 683, 684, 685, 686, 687, 688, 689, 690, 691, 692, 693, 694, 695, 696, 697, 698, 699, 700, 701, 702, 703, 704, 705, 706, 707, 708, 709, 710, 711, 712, 713, 714, 715, 716, 717, 718, 719, 720, 721, 722, 723, 724, 725, 726, 727, 728, 729, 730, 731, 732, 733, 734, 735, 736, 737, 738, 739, 740, 741, 742, 743, 744, 745, 746, 747, 748, 749, 750, 751, 752, 753, 754, 755, 756, 757, 758, 759, 760, 761, 762, 763, 764, 765, 766, 767, 768, 769, 770, 771, 772, 773, 774, 775, 776, 777, 778, 779, 780, 781, 782, 783, 784, 785, 786, 787, 788, 789, 790, 791, 792, 793, 794, 795, 796, 797, 798, 799, 800, 801, 802, 803, 804, 805, 806, 807, 808, 809, 810, 811, 812, 813, 814, 815, 816, 817, 818, 819, 820, 821, 822, 823, 824, 825, 826, 827, 828, 829, 830, 831, 832, 833, 834, 835, 836, 837, 838, 839, 840, 841, 842, 843, 844, 845, 846, 847, 848, 849, 850, 851, 852, 853, 854, 855, 856, 857, 858, 859, 860, 861, 862, 863, 864, 865, 866, 867, 868, 869, 870, 871, 872, 873, 874, 875, 876, 877, 878, 879, 880, 881, 882, 883, 884, 885, 886, 887, 888, 889, 890, 891, 892, 893, 894, 895, 896, 897, 898, 899, 900, 901, 902, 903, 904, 905, 906, 907, 908, 909, 910, 911, 912, 913, 914, 915, 916, 917, 918, 919, 920, 921, 922, 923, 924, 925, 926, 927, 928, 929, 930, 931, 932, 933, 934, 935, 936, 937, 938, 939, 940, 941, 942, 943, 944, 945, 946, 947, 948, 949, 950, 951, 952, 953, 954, 955, 956, 957, 958, 959, 960, 961, 962, 963, 964, 965, 966, 967, 968, 969, 970, 971, 972, 973, 974, 975, 976, 977, 978, 979, 980, 981, 982, 983, 984, 985, 986, 987, 988, 989, 990, 991, 992, 993, 994, 995, 996, 997, 998, 999, 1000, 1001, 1002, 1003, 1004, 1005, 1006, 1007, 1008, 1009, 1010, 1011, 1012, 1013, 1014, 1015, 1016, 1017, 1018, 1019, 1020, 1021, 1022, 1023, 1024, 1025, 1026, 1027, 1028, 1029, 1030, 1031, 1032, 1033, 1034, 1035, 1036, 1037, 1038, 1039, 1040, 1041, 1042, 1043, 1044, 1045, 1046, 1047, 1048, 1049, 1050, 1051, 1052, 1053, 1054, 1055, 1056, 1057, 1058, 1059, 1060, 1061, 1062, 1063, 1064, 1065, 1066, 1067, 1068, 1069, 1070, 1071, 1072, 1073, 1074, 1075, 1076, 1077, 1078, 1079, 1080, 1081, 1082, 1083, 1084, 1085, 1086, 1087, 1088, 1089, 1090, 1091, 1092, 1093, 1094, 1095, 1096, 1097, 1098, 1099, 1100, 1101, 1102, 1103, 1104, 1105, 1106, 1107, 1108, 1109, 1110, 1111, 1112, 1113, 1114, 1115, 1116, 1117, 1118, 1119, 1120, 1121, 1122, 1123, 1124, 1125, 1126, 1127, 1128, 1129, 1130, 1131, 1132, 1133, 1134, 1135, 1136, 1137, 1138, 1139, 1140, 1141, 1142, 1143, 1144, 1145, 1146, 1147, 1148, 1149, 1150, 1151, 1152, 1153, 1154, 1155, 1156, 1157, 1158, 1159, 1160  Next