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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
Author Message
prock
Nashville Predators
Location: Nice to know how comfortable t, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jun 7 @ 2:30 PM ET
you just said making the playoffs requires a healthy team and upgrades.

Melnyk has no money to upgrade the team

Injuries are inevitable

9th or 10th place team.

- Tumbleweed



I think that's the most likely outcome. It's possible they stay unusually healthy, maybe get a good performance out of a goalie, and snag 7th or 8th. Or, they have more injuries than usual, and end up 11th or 12th.
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Jun 7 @ 2:34 PM ET
Well, ignoring small sample size, his CORSI% was 48.5, which is still bottom quartile in the NHL. So, I'm not really following how you can refer to it as solid. Improved? Sure. But his numbers pre-Phaneuf were essentially non-NHL caliber. with him, they're just not fitting of anything more than bottom pairing, or 7th dman.

that's one statistic. So, I'm just trying to understand what you're saying. Do you feel that Phaneuf improves the Sens second pairing from non-NHL caliber, to bottom of the barrel NHL caliber? i.e. not really fit for second pairing? If so, I can agree with you there.

so what are you telling us? you feel he makes the Sens D a strong group? If so, the statistics definitely do not support that as you say they do. They're still bottom of the barrel, and among the worst in the league.

- prock
Ottawa,s biggest issue if you looked was the entire left side, including up front .After Mac went down early it left Hoffman as our only experienced LW ,and he isnt exactly what you call a two way forward .Hense the reasoning for us moving Zsmith onto JGP,s left side.Our lack of overall left handed skill both up front and more specifically on the defense .Doomed the team and hense why Phaneuf dispite what you may think is an upgrade

When you have two of Wiercioch ,Boro and Cowen in the lineup made this team far too weak on that side,and cost us dearly
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Jun 7 @ 2:34 PM ET
you just said making the playoffs requires a healthy team and upgrades.

Melnyk has no money to upgrade the team

Injuries are inevitable

9th or 10th place team.

- Tumbleweed
Meh we will see
prock
Nashville Predators
Location: Nice to know how comfortable t, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jun 7 @ 2:40 PM ET
Ottawa,s biggest issue if you looked was the entire left side, including up front .After Mac went down early it left Hoffman as our only experienced LW ,and he isnt exactly what you call a two way forward .Hense the reasoning for us moving Zsmith onto JGP,s left side.Our lack of overall left handed skill both up front and more specifically on the defense .Doomed the team and hense why Phaneuf dispite what you may think is an upgrade

When you have two of Wiercioch ,Boro and Cowen in the lineup made this team far too weak on that side,and cost us dearly

- top shelf 15


you said the ALL the numbers supported the Sens having a solid group. I just showed one that most definitely does not, and specifically does not show the Ceci is a solid young dman.

I'm just curious, what numbers exactly show that the Sens have a solid group now? Because I'm proven your statement that they ALL do, wrong.

I don't believe you'll find any numbers that support calling Ceci a solid dman, and I don't think you'll really find any that support calling the Sens group, since the Phaneuf trade, as solid either.

So, I'm just curious, you've said the numbers support it. I'm just asking you to tell me what numbers support it.
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Jun 7 @ 2:58 PM ET
you said the ALL the numbers supported the Sens having a solid group. I just showed one that most definitely does not, and specifically does not show the Ceci is a solid young dman.

I'm just curious, what numbers exactly show that the Sens have a solid group now? Because I'm proven your statement that they ALL do, wrong.

I don't believe you'll find any numbers that support calling Ceci a solid dman, and I don't think you'll really find any that support calling the Sens group, since the Phaneuf trade, as solid either.

So, I'm just curious, you've said the numbers support it. I'm just asking you to tell me what numbers support it.

- prock
Prockie come on ,iam a suporter and fan of yours .You know that this group is better than the one we iced last season.Ceci has never had a defensive partner like Phaneuf instead he has had to drag around guys like Cowen and Wiercioch.His numbers do reflect just how bad those two were
prock
Nashville Predators
Location: Nice to know how comfortable t, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jun 7 @ 3:04 PM ET
Prockie come on ,iam a suporter and fan of yours .You know that this group is better than the one we iced last season.Ceci has never had a defensive partner like Phaneuf instead he has had to drag around guys like Cowen and Wiercioch.His numbers do reflect just how bad those two were

- top shelf 15


I do think they're improved. I don't think by much.

I'm just curious - you mentioned numbers support them being a solid group, and Ceci being a solid young dman. I don't believe they do. Have you seen numbers that I haven't? Ceci's numbers have been pretty bad. Like, REALLY bad. Both before Phaneuf, and while slightly less bad with Phaneuf, as I say, still bottom quartile (aka, REALLLLLLY bad still). I'm just asking, you said there were numbers, I'm wondering what those numbers are?
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Jun 7 @ 3:35 PM ET
I do think they're improved. I don't think by much.

I'm just curious - you mentioned numbers support them being a solid group, and Ceci being a solid young dman. I don't believe they do. Have you seen numbers that I haven't? Ceci's numbers have been pretty bad. Like, REALLY bad. Both before Phaneuf, and while slightly less bad with Phaneuf, as I say, still bottom quartile (aka, REALLLLLLY bad still). I'm just asking, you said there were numbers, I'm wondering what those numbers are?

- prock
Hard to say again our team wasnt healthy ,yet again .Having Turris and Mac back in the lineup should lead to much better all around numbers everywhere .Maybe some improvement from kids like Lazar,Zib,Paul ceci etc could have this team move further up than even we think .So many variables
prock
Nashville Predators
Location: Nice to know how comfortable t, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jun 7 @ 3:40 PM ET
Hard to say again our team wasnt healthy ,yet again .Having Turris and Mac back in the lineup should lead to much better all around numbers everywhere .Maybe some improvement from kids like Lazar,Zib,Paul ceci etc could have this team move further up than even we think .So many variables
- top shelf 15


that's not really what you said though. you said the numbers since the phaneuf trade support this. You didn't say "well maybe next year the numbers will finally support this after so many years of them not supporting this, but it's hard to say since there are so many variables". Two very different statements.
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Jun 7 @ 3:53 PM ET
that's not really what you said though. you said the numbers since the phaneuf trade support this. You didn't say "well maybe next year the numbers will finally support this after so many years of them not supporting this, but it's hard to say since there are so many variables". Two very different statements.
- prock
Ceci offensive and defensive play was markedly better upon Phaneuf,s arrival ,whether you choose to believe me or not thats up to you
prock
Nashville Predators
Location: Nice to know how comfortable t, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jun 7 @ 3:56 PM ET
Ceci offensive and defensive play was markedly better upon Phaneuf,s arrival ,whether you choose to believe me or not thats up to you
- top shelf 15


you're backing off the "numbers" supporting this?
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Jun 7 @ 3:57 PM ET
you're backing off the "numbers" supporting this?
- prock
No iam not, look at his number in feb onwards .Not only is he a plus player but he also had his best offensive output in that exact same month
prock
Nashville Predators
Location: Nice to know how comfortable t, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jun 7 @ 4:17 PM ET
No iam not, look at his number in feb onwards .Not only is he a plus player but he also had his best offensive output in that exact same month
- top shelf 15


13 points in 43 games prior to feb, to 13 points in 32 games from Feb on, but with 2 more minutes of ice a game.

I hate to break it to you, but that's marginally better. Not very much better at all, and in fact, when you factor in standard variance, probably not statistically significant either.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jun 7 @ 5:44 PM ET
Funny how leaf fans want to talk about Phaneuf. I think it has something to do with not wanting to talk about Kessel ripping up the NHL playoffs and likely winning the Conn Smyth. Is Phaneuf the next Larry Murphy?

Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: tenav for drouin. lol @ canucks
Joined: 03.14.2014

Jun 7 @ 5:47 PM ET
Funny how leaf fans want to talk about Phaneuf. I think it has something to do with not wanting to talk about Kessel ripping up the NHL playoffs and likely winning the Conn Smyth. Is Phaneuf the next Larry Murphy?
- spatso


maybe because this is a sens vs. leafs thread? that ever dawn on you?

and good for kessel.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jun 7 @ 5:48 PM ET
No iam not, look at his number in feb onwards .Not only is he a plus player but he also had his best offensive output in that exact same month
- top shelf 15



you are right, Ceci has developed really well and his game with Phaneuf looked stronger every week they played together.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jun 7 @ 5:50 PM ET
maybe because this is a sens vs. leafs thread? that ever dawn on you?

and good for kessel.

- Tumbleweed


Duh! I thought we were talking about the shrewdness of the Leaf front office in doing deals. They got taken to the woodshed on Kessel, same with Phaneuf.
daeth
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: every day, once a day, give yourself a present, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005

Jun 7 @ 5:54 PM ET
Funny how leaf fans want to talk about Phaneuf. I think it has something to do with not wanting to talk about Kessel ripping up the NHL playoffs and likely winning the Conn Smyth. Is Phaneuf the next Larry Murphy?
- spatso

Do I think Phaneuf will win multiple cups with Ottawa? Yes, yes I do.
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: tenav for drouin. lol @ canucks
Joined: 03.14.2014

Jun 7 @ 5:58 PM ET
Duh! I thought we were talking about the shrewdness of the Leaf front office in doing deals. They got taken to the woodshed on Kessel, same with Phaneuf.
- spatso


meh. salary retention was the only issue with the kessel trade. return was market otherwise.

Identified a need for a senior manager - and Lou was brought in.

leafs got back what they gave up for phaneuf - a bunch of crap on near expiring contracts. What you fail to realize is - you get what you pay for.


spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jun 7 @ 5:59 PM ET
Do I think Phaneuf will win multiple cups with Ottawa? Yes, yes I do.
- daeth


Ottawa is missing one more piece in a top 6 forward. i think the D is very strong with the addition of Phaneuf on the second pairing. with teams under huge cap pressures there will be very good top 6 players available. 0pportunity may be knocking.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jun 7 @ 6:04 PM ET
meh. salary retention was the only issue with the kessel trade. return was market otherwise.

Identified a need for a senior manager - and Lou was brought in.

leafs got back what they gave up for phaneuf - a bunch of crap on near expiring contracts. What you fail to realize is - you get what you pay for.

- Tumbleweed


Except if you serve an ace and squeeze the juice out of the other guy. We will have a chance to review this all season. i suspect Leaf fans will become as quiet on Phaneuf as they are on Kessel.
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: tenav for drouin. lol @ canucks
Joined: 03.14.2014

Jun 7 @ 6:11 PM ET
Except if you serve an ace and squeeze the juice out of the other guy. We will have a chance to review this all season. i suspect Leaf fans will become as quiet on Phaneuf as they are on Kessel.
- spatso


systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Jun 7 @ 6:18 PM ET
Funny how leaf fans want to talk about Phaneuf. I think it has something to do with not wanting to talk about Kessel ripping up the NHL playoffs and likely winning the Conn Smyth. Is Phaneuf the next Larry Murphy?
- spatso


Funny how Sens fans want to talk about Laine. As if it will make the Leafs drafting Matthews go away.
systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Jun 7 @ 6:20 PM ET
maybe because this is a sens vs. leafs thread? that ever dawn on you?

and good for kessel.

- Tumbleweed




Why don't Sens talk about Bishop?
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jun 7 @ 6:24 PM ET


Why don't Sens talk about Bishop?

- systemtool


No problem talking about Bishop. Not sure he would have given Ottawa any better of a result over the past couple of years. He is probably available cheap right now. I don't think the Sens are interested.

Joined: 12.31.1969

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