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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
Author Message
systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Jun 7 @ 12:10 PM ET
NMC means we have to protect him which is fine ,again actual dollars are what matter in Ottawa not cap.Having phaneuf is more to mitigate the probable loss of Methot in expansion ,and to provide some veteran support until another hopeful develops and tries to crack our lineup in Chabot
- top shelf 15


It's like finding a wallet!
systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Jun 7 @ 12:12 PM ET
depends what the rule is. If so, that trade means you gained Phaneuf, and lost Methot. Something a good portion of the hockey world will see as little more than a lateral move.
- prock



Truth bombs don't have shrapnel.

Fun fact of the day.
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Jun 7 @ 12:12 PM ET
There are quite a few stats to indicate that Cody Ceci is among the worst dmen in the entire league. The same stats that Sens fans try to use to defend Karlsson and Stone.

Did you watch the world championships? Did you see how they gave him his ice time against teams like France and Hungary? They were using him to rest the good players? Then when they faced good teams, he sat on the bench a lot more (and was still a weakness in the little bits of ice he got).

- prock
And TC never plays favorites
Not at all worried about why they actually thought Ellis was better than him
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Jun 7 @ 12:13 PM ET
depends what the rule is. If so, that trade means you gained Phaneuf, and lost Methot. Something a good portion of the hockey world will see as little more than a lateral move.
- prock
Thats exactly what it is ,we are going to lose someone .We should at least try to replace him
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Jun 7 @ 12:13 PM ET
depends what the rule is. If so, that trade means you gained Phaneuf, and lost Methot. Something a good portion of the hockey world will see as little more than a lateral move.
- prock
Thats exactly what it is ,we are going to lose someone .We should at least try to replace him
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Jun 7 @ 12:14 PM ET
Sorry DP

- top shelf 15

prock
Nashville Predators
Location: Nice to know how comfortable t, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jun 7 @ 12:16 PM ET
Thats exactly what it is ,we are going to lose someone .We should at least try to replace him

- top shelf 15


but you wouldn't lose him without the trade for phaneuf.
systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Jun 7 @ 12:17 PM ET
but you wouldn't lose him without the trade for phaneuf.
- prock



I think he's conveniently blocking that out.
prock
Nashville Predators
Location: Nice to know how comfortable t, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jun 7 @ 12:20 PM ET
Truth bombs don't have shrapnel.

Fun fact of the day.

- systemtool



The logic out of Sens fans right now is baffling. When Phaneuf was a Leaf, he was relegated to second pairing, and took a back seat to Rielly. We were told he was in over his head, and was only bad because Toronto expected too much out of him (to be clear, I don't think he was outright BAD, he's just not the guy that is going to make your team that much better). Now, they trade for him, he's apparently earmarked to replace their first pairing dman, who by way, they're only losing BECAUSE THEY NOW HAVE PHANEUF, take MORE ice time and responsibility than he already had, and this will somehow improve THEIR team.

Can someone help me connect the dots here?
systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Jun 7 @ 12:26 PM ET
The logic out of Sens fans right now is baffling. When Phaneuf was a Leaf, he was relegated to second pairing, and took a back seat to Rielly. We were told he was in over his head, and was only bad because Toronto expected too much out of him (to be clear, I don't think he was outright BAD, he's just not the guy that is going to make your team that much better). Now, they trade for him, he's apparently earmarked to replace their first pairing dman, who by way, they're only losing BECAUSE THEY NOW HAVE PHANEUF, take MORE ice time and responsibility than he already had, and this will somehow improve THEIR team.

Can someone help me connect the dots here?

- prock


Karlesson will be better because phaneuf is here! And because Phaneuf is here Methot will be better too. And since Ceci is playing with Phaneuf he'll be better too!

Fun fact of the day pt 2: Phaneuf didn't make anyone on toronto better leat of all the team.
prock
Nashville Predators
Location: Nice to know how comfortable t, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jun 7 @ 12:34 PM ET
Karlesson will be better because phaneuf is here! And because Phaneuf is here Methot will be better too. And since Ceci is playing with Phaneuf he'll be better too!

Fun fact of the day pt 2: Phaneuf didn't make anyone on toronto better leat of all the team.

- systemtool


I honestly think Phaneuf took a lot of heat in Toronto, and wasn't horrible. But he's not going to be a big difference maker either. he's now getting more responsibility than apparently he could handle in Toronto, and were repeatedly told he couldn't handle.

the thing is, like I say, goals get scored on the Sens at much faster pace with Karlsson on the ice. That's really where the serious deficiency lies. If they're going to let Karlsson play the way he does, they need one of the best defensive dmen in the league beside him, or they'll just continue to hemmorage goals against. Phaneuf is not an improvement in that position. In fact, he's probably worse in that spot than Methot is.

If that's truly where he ends up, the Sens are f*&ked. If he's just on the second pairing, like Sens fans told us he'd be, meh, he might help a bit. Not much, because the problem lies with that first pairing. But a bit. Certainly nowhere NEAR enough to make it worth the extra salary, and nowhere near enough to make the Sens one of the better team in the East, or even in the division. they're still a bubble team, just with more salary, and older now.

but yeah, if they end up losing other dmen, and he ends up on the first pairing, that trade will be looked at as one of the worst trades in the entire Sens history.
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Jun 7 @ 12:38 PM ET
but you wouldn't lose him without the trade for phaneuf.
- prock
Yes we would have ,you need to leave at least two defenders with over 70 games played in the past 2 seasons,and that have a contract through 2016/17 .Ottawa will have two Methot and Boro
D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Jun 7 @ 12:38 PM ET
I do. We saw many of them at the end of last year.

Nylander. Sosh. Hyman. Carrick. Brown.

- systemtool


Do you see these five, plus Marner on the leafs opening day roster?
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Jun 7 @ 12:42 PM ET
Karlesson will be better because phaneuf is here! And because Phaneuf is here Methot will be better too. And since Ceci is playing with Phaneuf he'll be better too!

Fun fact of the day pt 2: Phaneuf didn't make anyone on toronto better leat of all the team.

- systemtool
Ceci is better with him
As is Ek with him on the pp ,did you even bother to look at what we have on the left side of our defense pre trade and after .Boro,Wier,Cowen and Methot dont exactly scream solid .Methot is great on defense ,offense not so much .Adding Phanuef at least gives EK something to work with,and Ceci an actual nhl calibre partner .His numbers and play after the trade reflect this
systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Jun 7 @ 1:21 PM ET
Do you see these five, plus Marner on the leafs opening day roster?
- D0PPELGANGER


All 6? Probably not. 4 or 5. I have no opinion on marner only because i dont think anyone has even a clue. Plus there are other guys joining the roster I'm sure not being discussed.

I think this team has alot of moves to make still as does every other team.
systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Jun 7 @ 1:22 PM ET
Ceci is better with him
As is Ek with him on the pp ,did you even bother to look at what we have on the left side of our defense pre trade and after .Boro,Wier,Cowen and Methot dont exactly scream solid .Methot is great on defense ,offense not so much .Adding Phanuef at least gives EK something to work with,and Ceci an actual nhl calibre partner .His numbers and play after the trade reflect this

- top shelf 15


top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Jun 7 @ 1:28 PM ET

- systemtool
Whats so funny ??everything i have said is the truth .Nobody is claiming that Phaneuf is a savior ,but when you look at what we had last season .Its pretty obvious we are better with him in the lineup ,we like most teams understand to get top end defenders you need to draft and develop them.We are trying to do this without totally sucking wind .Phaneuf give us this
systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Jun 7 @ 1:38 PM ET
Whats so funny ??everything i have said is the truth .Nobody is claiming that Phaneuf is a savior ,but when you look at what we had last season .Its pretty obvious we are better with him in the lineup ,we like most teams understand to get top end defenders you need to draft and develop them.We are trying to do this without totally sucking wind .Phaneuf give us this
- top shelf 15


Nothing. Sorry was a mistake. I meant to put the thumbs up emoticon.
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Jun 7 @ 1:56 PM ET
Nothing. Sorry was a mistake. I meant to put the thumbs up emoticon.
- systemtool
Look man nobody expects us to win a cup ,but making the playoffs and maybe winning a round .Is a possibilty ,we have a decent roster when healthy .We need at least another elite level player up front.And a better PMD for the left side ,this much we all know .But you cant get any one of these through F/A .So we either make upgrades through trade our try and mine another nugget like Stone or EK .
systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Jun 7 @ 2:06 PM ET
Look man nobody expects us to win a cup ,but making the playoffs and maybe winning a round .Is a possibilty ,we have a decent roster when healthy .We need at least another elite level player up front.And a better PMD for the left side ,this much we all know .But you cant get any one of these through F/A .So we either make upgrades through trade our try and mine another nugget like Stone or EK .
- top shelf 15


I agree. The Sens will battle for 9th or 10th.
prock
Nashville Predators
Location: Nice to know how comfortable t, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jun 7 @ 2:12 PM ET
Ceci is better with him
As is Ek with him on the pp ,did you even bother to look at what we have on the left side of our defense pre trade and after .Boro,Wier,Cowen and Methot dont exactly scream solid .Methot is great on defense ,offense not so much .Adding Phanuef at least gives EK something to work with,and Ceci an actual nhl calibre partner .His numbers and play after the trade reflect this

- top shelf 15



Which numbers specifically?
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Jun 7 @ 2:15 PM ET
I agree. The Sens will battle for 9th or 10th.
- systemtool
Meh your opinion ,and expect nothing less from you
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Jun 7 @ 2:19 PM ET
Which numbers specifically?
- prock
All of them ,look if you cant just admit Ceci is a good young defenseman ,i dont think you have watched him play .Kid is already pretty good ,and at 22 years old he should be trending up .He has everything you want in a top 4 guy nowadays ,some size,good speed ,can make plays with the puck,and without it.Dont really get what point you are trying to make here
prock
Nashville Predators
Location: Nice to know how comfortable t, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jun 7 @ 2:27 PM ET
All of them ,look if you cant just admit Ceci is a good young defenseman ,i dont see the point in arguing this point .Kid is already pretty good ,and at 22 years old he should be trending up .He has everything you want in a top 4 guy nowadays ,some size,good speed ,can make plays with the puck,and without it.Dont really get what you point you are trying to make here
- top shelf 15


Well, ignoring small sample size, his CORSI% was 48.5, which is still bottom quartile in the NHL. So, I'm not really following how you can refer to it as solid. Improved? Sure. But his numbers pre-Phaneuf were essentially non-NHL caliber. with him, they're just not fitting of anything more than bottom pairing, or 7th dman.

that's one statistic (you're saying they ALL do). So, I'm just trying to understand what you're saying. Do you feel that Phaneuf improves the Sens second pairing from non-NHL caliber, to bottom of the barrel NHL caliber? i.e. not really fit for second pairing? If so, I can agree with you there.

so what are you telling us? you feel he makes the Sens D a strong group? If so, the statistics definitely do not support that as you say they do. They're still bottom of the barrel, and among the worst in the league.

Honestly, at this point, there really aren't any "numbers" to reference to say that would support calling Ceci a good young defenseman. Most of his numbers are downright horrid. Both pre-Phaneuf, and with Phaneuf.

So im just curious, what numbers do you refer to?

Joined: 12.31.1969

Deleted Post []
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