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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
Author Message
Pecafan Fan
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Pacioretty, c'est mou comme d'la marde - Gilbert Delorme
Joined: 01.20.2009

Feb 20 @ 2:38 PM ET
I'm sure it bothers you that your fellow Habs fans are generally ignorant about hockey, the NHL, etc, outside of the Habs. But I state facts.

If fans in Montreal were rubbed the wrong way about Toronto having the medal rounds, that certainly supports that are ignorant to anything hockey outside the Habs, as Montreal was slated to get the medal round, while Toronto gets the round robin, in 2017. So, I’m sure you can agree, that getting angry, or feeling snubbed, that Montreal didn’t get the medal round this year, is pretty ignorant of them, right?

Or, is this something that lowly ole Prock should know, but not the almighty Habs fans, for some other reason?

- prock


There's no denying that Montreal is a Habs-centric city. They can't even sustain a junior team.

But that has nothing to do with hockey knowledge.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Feb 20 @ 2:39 PM ET
Yes, I agree, there is a demand for NHL, and other top level hockey, in Toronto, which just doesn't exist in Montreal or Ottawa. That's my point.
- prock



So the leafs provide you with "top level hockey" , or are you referring to their opponents for the past decade?

Need I remind you that Ottawa held the most successful WJC tournament back in 2009?

The 2009 tournament broke the all time attendance record a WJC, attracting over 450,000 people.
prock
Nashville Predators
Location: Nice to know how comfortable t, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Feb 20 @ 2:49 PM ET
There's no denying that Montreal is a Habs-centric city. They can't even sustain a junior team.

But that has nothing to do with hockey knowledge.

- Pecafan Fan


Well, it absolutely does. How can you expect a population to accumulate knowledge on something they don’t pay attention to, or care about?

I think if you look at things objectively, you’ll come to the same conclusion. It actually becomes evident in many ways. The number/caliber of high caliber hockey players each region generates (there are more NHLers from Ottawa than there are from Montreal, in fact. And in the region of 5 times the NHLers from Toronto than from Montreal). More junior teams in the Toronto area, as you’ve mentioned. More grassroots hockey players, and registered leagues per capita in Toronto. When you factor in demographics, that’s pretty incredible.

I think anyone who takes an intelligent look at things will understand why the majority of Habs fans know so little about hockey outside the Montreal Canadiens. They just don't know or care about hockey in general.
prock
Nashville Predators
Location: Nice to know how comfortable t, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Feb 20 @ 2:59 PM ET
So the leafs provide you with "top level hockey" , or are you referring to their opponents for the past decade?

Need I remind you that Ottawa held the most successful WJC tournament back in 2009?

The 2009 tournament broke the all time attendance record a WJC, attracting over 450,000 people.

- Doppleganger



thank god Toronto is just down the street eh?

I think you're forgetting that this world juniors had montreal dragging down the attendance. Toronto attendance was much better. In fact, Toronto attendance was better for the prelim games, without Canada involved, than Montreal's attendance, with Canada.

I do recognize that Ottawa isn't quite as disgraceful as Montreal, in that respect, I give you that.
Pecafan Fan
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Pacioretty, c'est mou comme d'la marde - Gilbert Delorme
Joined: 01.20.2009

Feb 20 @ 3:06 PM ET
Well, it absolutely does. How can you expect a population to accumulate knowledge on something they don’t pay attention to, or care about?

I think if you look at things objectively, you’ll come to the same conclusion. It actually becomes evident in many ways. The number/caliber of high caliber hockey players each region generates (there are more NHLers from Ottawa than there are from Montreal, in fact. And in the region of 5 times the NHLers from Toronto than from Montreal). More junior teams in the Toronto area, as you’ve mentioned. More grassroots hockey players, and registered leagues per capita in Toronto. When you factor in demographics, that’s pretty incredible.

I think anyone who takes an intelligent look at things will understand why the majority of Habs fans know so little about hockey outside the Montreal Canadiens. They just don't know or care about hockey in general.

- prock


According to this:
http://www.the10and3.com/hockey.htm

Toronto: 0.16 NHL players per 10K Residents
Montreal: 0.12 NHL players per 10K residents
Ottawa: 0.26 NHL players per 10K residents

Unfortunately, this goes only up to 2012, but how is it possible that Toronto, the greatest hockey hot bed on the planet, is so far behind Ottawa????
senstroll
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Feb 20 @ 3:31 PM ET
According to this:
http://www.the10and3.com/hockey.htm

Toronto: 0.16 NHL players per 10K Residents
Montreal: 0.12 NHL players per 10K residents
Ottawa: 0.26 NHL players per 10K residents

Unfortunately, this goes only up to 2012, but how is it possible that Toronto, the greatest hockey hot bed on the planet, is so far behind Ottawa????

- Pecafan Fan



*Waits for procks well thought out reply*
daeth
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: every day, once a day, give yourself a present, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005

Feb 20 @ 3:41 PM ET
According to this:
http://www.the10and3.com/hockey.htm

Toronto: 0.16 NHL players per 10K Residents
Montreal: 0.12 NHL players per 10K residents
Ottawa: 0.26 NHL players per 10K residents

Unfortunately, this goes only up to 2012, but how is it possible that Toronto, the greatest hockey hot bed on the planet, is so far behind Ottawa????

- Pecafan Fan

demographics

Pecafan Fan
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Pacioretty, c'est mou comme d'la marde - Gilbert Delorme
Joined: 01.20.2009

Feb 20 @ 3:42 PM ET
demographics
- daeth

Yes?
daeth
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: every day, once a day, give yourself a present, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005

Feb 20 @ 3:44 PM ET
Yes?
- Pecafan Fan

http://www.fin.gov.on.ca/...aphics/census/cenhi6.html

Pecafan Fan
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Pacioretty, c'est mou comme d'la marde - Gilbert Delorme
Joined: 01.20.2009

Feb 20 @ 3:53 PM ET
http://www.fin.gov.on.ca/...aphics/census/cenhi6.html
- daeth


Oh in understand that.

Montreal is a soccer town nowadays. Most kids play soccer. (that said, they don't care for the MLS and the Impact)
daeth
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: every day, once a day, give yourself a present, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005

Feb 20 @ 3:56 PM ET
You'd think with Toronto now nearing 50% in terms of visible minorities that we'd see more non white hockey players but nope.
daeth
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: every day, once a day, give yourself a present, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005

Feb 20 @ 3:57 PM ET
It's not surprising that Dopps has opted to live in Ottawa instead of Toronto considering how racist he is
Pecafan Fan
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Pacioretty, c'est mou comme d'la marde - Gilbert Delorme
Joined: 01.20.2009

Feb 20 @ 3:58 PM ET
It's not surprising that Dopps has opted to live in Ottawa instead of Toronto considering how racist he is
- daeth

Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Feb 20 @ 4:17 PM ET
You'd think with Toronto now nearing 50% in terms of visible minorities that we'd see more non white hockey players but nope.
- daeth

I think you'll see more and more as immigrant families go through a few more generations, and become more assimilated.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Feb 20 @ 4:17 PM ET
It's not surprising that Dopps has opted to live in Ottawa instead of Toronto considering how racist he is
- daeth

prock
Nashville Predators
Location: Nice to know how comfortable t, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Feb 20 @ 4:20 PM ET
According to this:
http://www.the10and3.com/hockey.htm

Toronto: 0.16 NHL players per 10K Residents
Montreal: 0.12 NHL players per 10K residents
Ottawa: 0.26 NHL players per 10K residents

Unfortunately, this goes only up to 2012, but how is it possible that Toronto, the greatest hockey hot bed on the planet, is so far behind Ottawa????

- Pecafan Fan



This is a fascinating graph, thank you for this.

I would be curious to see how it looks if they had more logical separations. For example, they have the Shwiggedy, Pickering, Mississauga, Markham, Brampton, etc, separated from Toronto. Anybody that’s been here knows that, as much as we like to act like they aren’t a part of our city, they are. It’s all one city, really. I’m sure you could say the same of Ottawa and Montreal.

It’s interesting, look at the names.

Ottawa, top names: Derek Roy, Dan Boyle, and then just a bunch of crap like JG Pageau, Ben Eager, Marc Methot, etc.

Toronto area, top names: Subban, Tavares, Seguin, Nash, spezza, etc.

As I said though, it’s quite clear that Montreal is bottom of the barrel in terms of hockey.
Pecafan Fan
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Pacioretty, c'est mou comme d'la marde - Gilbert Delorme
Joined: 01.20.2009

Feb 20 @ 6:54 PM ET
This is a fascinating graph, thank you for this.

I would be curious to see how it looks if they had more logical separations. For example, they have the Shwiggedy, Pickering, Mississauga, Markham, Brampton, etc, separated from Toronto. Anybody that’s been here knows that, as much as we like to act like they aren’t a part of our city, they are. It’s all one city, really. I’m sure you could say the same of Ottawa and Montreal.

It’s interesting, look at the names.

Ottawa, top names: Derek Roy, Dan Boyle, and then just a bunch of crap like JG Pageau, Ben Eager, Marc Methot, etc.

Toronto area, top names: Subban, Tavares, Seguin, Nash, spezza, etc.

As I said though, it’s quite clear that Montreal is bottom of the barrel in terms of hockey.

- prock

Quebec would get half of Ontario's number of players. With nearly half the population. So, it would only makes sense.

Nothing shocking there. Only logic.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Feb 20 @ 7:27 PM ET
According to this:
http://www.the10and3.com/hockey.htm

Toronto: 0.16 NHL players per 10K Residents
Montreal: 0.12 NHL players per 10K residents
Ottawa: 0.26 NHL players per 10K residents

Unfortunately, this goes only up to 2012, but how is it possible that Toronto, the greatest hockey hot bed on the planet, is so far behind Ottawa????

- Pecafan Fan



Would that include players from Gatineau also?
daeth
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: every day, once a day, give yourself a present, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005

Feb 20 @ 8:45 PM ET
I think you'll see more and more as immigrant families go through a few more generations, and become more assimilated.
- Feeling Glucky?

That or maybe everyone will just start playing soccer lol
jordan456789
Joined: 10.27.2007

Feb 21 @ 10:15 AM ET
Quebec would get half of Ontario's number of players. With nearly half the population. So, it would only makes sense.

Nothing shocking there. Only logic.

- Pecafan Fan


Yes more people playing hockey generates more money and better player development. It is no wonder why Toronto has better players.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Mar 1 @ 8:12 AM ET
It is all to clear now that when you compare how the leafs went out to California and were shutout three times in that State, to Ottawa's three straight road wins, two of them shut outs in the same state...........that Ottawa has distanced themselves from the leafs, and are the team in Ontario that is the better position.
RogerRoeper
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 03.27.2007

Mar 1 @ 8:33 AM ET
The Sens late run to 9th is very bad news for them.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Mar 1 @ 8:52 AM ET
The Sens late run to 9th is very bad news for them.
- RogerRoeper



Well if you're a supporter of a tanking team, then that is how you may look at it.

However as the Senators have been re-building for a few years years now, their "goal" is different than the "goal" of leaf nation.


All of the Senator's young players are making great strides in their development, with a number of older players being our of the line up for extended periods of time, this experience they're getting has build up their confidence that they can play and play well at this level.


For example, Mike Hoffman leads ALL rookies with 23 goals, first in plus minus (+23 ) and is third in Rookie points this season, and Mark Stone is fourth in rookies points and is a +11 player.


Perhaps is four or five years from now the leaf will have a good number of drafted players in their line up and will be doing as well as the Senators are doing now.


Not every team is tanking for the draft, most are trying to win games and develop into contenders, and with that in perspective, Ottawa is miles and miles ahead of the leafs.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Mar 1 @ 8:58 AM ET
Bernier must be injured... right, glucker?
- Pecafan Fan



Was he playing injured last night?
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: GMTM on Eichel: "He certainly won't get his pee pee slapped by me for being a little more outspoken., ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Mar 1 @ 9:05 AM ET
Well if you're a supporter of a tanking team, then that is how you may look at it.

However as the Senators have been re-building for a few years years now, their "goal" is different than the "goal" of leaf nation.


All of the Senator's young players are making great strides in their development, with a number of older players being our of the line up for extended periods of time, this experience they're getting has build up their confidence that they can play and play well at this level.


For example, Mike Hoffman leads ALL rookies with 23 goals, first in plus minus (+23 ) and is third in Rookie points this season, and Mark Stone is fourth in rookies points and is a +11 player.


Perhaps is four or five years from now the leaf will have a good number of drafted players in their line up and will be doing as well as the Senators are doing now.


Not every team is tanking for the draft, most are trying to win games and develop into contenders, and with that in perspective, Ottawa is miles and miles ahead of the leafs.

- Doppleganger



I hope to god that the Leafs goal 4-5 years from now isn't to be 11th worst team in the league. If it is they are doing something wrong.
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