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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
Author Message
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jan 8 @ 10:04 AM ET
The Senators would not need to trade anyone, just to make cap space they have Tonnes of cap space.

However, the leafs, who've painted themselves into a corner, by having a non Cup contending roster with a maxed out Cap, would be forced to move people out in order to bring in the remaining pieces to their puzzle.

- Doppleganger


I understand they don't need to trade to gain cap space. They have to trade to gain budget space. Who would they trade to make budget space?
Pecafan Fan
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Pacioretty, c'est mou comme d'la marde - Gilbert Delorme
Joined: 01.20.2009

Jan 8 @ 10:11 AM ET
I understand they don't need to trade to gain cap space. They have to trade to gain budget space. Who would they trade to make budget space?
- prock


Heatley Alfredsson Spezza Karlsson!
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jan 8 @ 10:18 AM ET
Heatley Alfredsson Spezza Karlsson!
- Pecafan Fan



Hahaha. To be fair, Heatley didn't go because of budget space. Alfredsson and Spezza did. "If you're not going to be serious about providing a budget for a competitive team, trade me". Or well, Alfredsson just said that after he bolted for a team that would.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Jan 8 @ 11:02 AM ET
I understand they don't need to trade to gain cap space. They have to trade to gain budget space. Who would they trade to make budget space?
- prock



The owner has stated, publicly, many times in the past year, that as the team develops and moves towards being a Cup contending team, the "budget" will increase accordingly.
There are a number of RFAs and UFAs whose contracts are expiring in the next year or two, and Ottawa comfortably has the cap/budget room to resign those who they see as part of the future of the team.

This is something that the leaf can't do with the number of high priced, long term, untradeable albatross contracts.

So the roster you see for the leafs today, is the same it's going to be for the foreseeable future. Sure the bottom six forwards might change names (like they did this past off season) but the leafs are EXACTLY in the same spot they were, after 41 games, last season as they are this season, sitting with 45 points.

So going forward, the Senators are in a much better position than the leafs.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jan 8 @ 11:32 AM ET
The owner has stated, publicly, many times in the past year, that as the team develops and moves towards being a Cup contending team, the "budget" will increase accordingly.
There are a number of RFAs and UFAs whose contracts are expiring in the next year or two, and Ottawa comfortably has the cap/budget room to resign those who they see as part of the future of the team.

This is something that the leaf can't do with the number of high priced, long term, untradeable albatross contracts.

So the roster you see for the leafs today, is the same it's going to be for the foreseeable future. Sure the bottom six forwards might change names (like they did this past off season) but the leafs are EXACTLY in the same spot they were, after 41 games, last season as they are this season, sitting with 45 points.

So going forward, the Senators are in a much better position than the leafs.

- Doppleganger


The owner has repeatedly said, that there is an internal budget, and was willing to cheap out, and lose the player that saved his franchise. two captains in a row stating that they are no longer willing to stay with a franchise not serious about winning.

So, it begs the question, who will the Senators trade, if they want to make budget space to sign a free agent?

Given that the Sens have little to no top end talent, no budget space, and a thin group of prospects, with zero prospects with top end projections, I think it's pretty obvious, the Leafs are in a better position than the Sens, going forward. Most of your own Sens fans would even agree.
the_cause2000
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Not quite my tempo
Joined: 02.26.2007

Jan 8 @ 11:38 AM ET
Leafs, which says a lot about ottawa
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Jan 8 @ 11:50 AM ET
The owner has repeatedly said, that there is an internal budget, and was willing to cheap out, and lose the player that saved his franchise. two captains in a row stating that they are no longer willing to stay with a franchise not serious about winning.

So, it begs the question, who will the Senators trade, if they want to make budget space to sign a free agent?

Given that the Sens have little to no top end talent, no budget space, and a thin group of prospects, with zero prospects with top end projections, I think it's pretty obvious, the Leafs are in a better position than the Sens, going forward. Most of your own Sens fans would even agree.

- prock




What part of having TONNES of Cap space, don't you understand?

The Senators do not have to trade anyone to make any kind of space, I thought I explained that, and perhaps you'd be able to see the simplicity in it.





In the National Post December 16, 2014
“I’m not the least embarrassed about us spending at the bottom,” Melnyk said Monday afternoon at his 11th annual charity skate for kids. “I’m happy about it because we’ll be able to spend more in the future and some can’t. Some are stuck.



The leafs are stuck where they are for the foreseeable future, with a core group signed to long term, high priced, untradeable, albatross contracts.

And because a succession of GMS have had the team payroll crammed up against the Cap ceiling, they would be forced to trade players or other assets in order to make room for players they want to retain and sign them to new contracts, or acquire others via trades.


You seem to believe in a myth that you've created, that the owner is never going to increase his teams payroll, he's on the record numerous times stating otherwise (see above)...................just like you believed the myth you created that Bobby Ryan would be pulling on a Flyers jersey this coming July.


Try addressing the real world realities, instead of the wishful dreamworld you live in.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jan 8 @ 11:59 AM ET
What part of having TONNES of Cap space, don't you understand?

The Senators do not have to trade anyone to make any kind of space, I thought I explained that, and perhaps you'd be able to see the simplicity in it.





In the National Post December 16, 2014
“I’m not the least embarrassed about us spending at the bottom,” Melnyk said Monday afternoon at his 11th annual charity skate for kids. “I’m happy about it because we’ll be able to spend more in the future and some can’t. Some are stuck.



The leafs are stuck where they are for the foreseeable future, with a core group signed to long term, high priced, untradeable, albatross contracts.

And because a succession of GMS have had the team payroll crammed up against the Cap ceiling, they would be forced to trade players or other assets in order to make room for players they want to retain and sign them to new contracts, or acquire others via trades.


You seem to believe in a myth that you've created, that the owner is never going to increase his teams payroll, he's on the record numerous times stating otherwise (see above)...................just like you believed the myth you created that Bobby Ryan would be pulling on a Flyers jersey this coming July.


Try addressing the real world realities, instead of the wishful dreamworld you live in.

- Doppleganger



What part of YOU HAVE NO BUDGET do you not understand?

Try addressing real world realities, instead of the wishful dreamworld you live in.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Jan 8 @ 3:14 PM ET
What part of YOU HAVE NO BUDGET do you not understand?

Try addressing real world realities, instead of the wishful dreamworld you live in.

- prock





Please explain to us, how a team jammed up against the ceiling of the Cap, with a payroll full of expensive, cap busting, long-term, untradeable, albatross contracts...........is somehow in a better position going forward, that another team stocked with young dynamic players and prospects, that has practically the most Cap space in the NHL????


One team can't trade of move players to open up Cap space to bring in the players they need to become a Cup contender, while the other team does not have to trade of move anyone they don't want to, can sign any free agent, can trade for any player because they have zero cap issues.


It's quite clear that the team with Cap flexibility is in a way better position going forward than one which cannot improve it's roster through trades of UFA signings.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jan 8 @ 3:18 PM ET
Please explain to us, how a team jammed up against the ceiling of the Cap, with a payroll full of expensive, cap busting, long-term, untradeable, albatross contracts...........is somehow in a better position going forward, that another team stocked with young dynamic players and prospects, that has practically the most Cap space in the NHL????


One team can't trade of move players to open up Cap space to bring in the players they need to become a Cup contender, while the other team does not have to trade of move anyone they don't want to, can sign any free agent, can trade for any player because they have zero cap issues.


It's quite clear that the team with Cap flexibility is in a way better position going forward than one which cannot improve it's roster through trades of UFA signings.

- Doppleganger


Please explain to us, how a team jammed up against their budget, with little to no decent players or high end prospects as it is (Sens with a bottom rated prospect group)...........is somehow in a better position going forward, that another team stocked with young dynamic players and prospects, that has practically the biggest budget in the NHL????


One team can't spend any money to bring in the players they need to become a Cup contender, while the other team does not have to trade of move anyone they don't want to, can sign any free agent, can trade for any player because they have zero budget issues.

It's quite clear that the team with budget flexibility is in a way better position going forward than one which cannot improve it's roster through trades of UFA signings.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Jan 8 @ 3:39 PM ET
So I see you're still in denial.

leafs cap space = $1,905,833
Senators cap space = $ 14,116,666

Ottawa has more than Seven times the Cap space than the leafs.

It's quite clear that the team with Cap flexibility is in a way better position going forward than one which cannot improve it's roster through trades of UFA signings.



The leafs bring in a New President of Hockey operations, with much of the same messianic fanfare that there was when Brian Burke was brought in..............they hire an Analytics superstar wunderkind to be an assistant GM, they bring in two new Assistant coaches.

They basically swap out their bottom six forwards and claim they're improving the roster over last seasons'....................but after 41 games, they're in exactly the same place as last season, sitting at 45 points.

They're handcuffed with a payroll pounding it's head against the ceiling of the cap because successive GMs still think like the pre-cap era when term and price of contracts were an after thought.


Less than 20 days ago, after the leafs beat the Ducks 6 - 2, they had an over 95% chance of making the playoffs, and today they've slipped out of the Wild Card spot they hand firmly in their hands, and now only have a less than 55% chance of making the play offs.


How many times do you have to see this movie?

http://www.sportsclubstat...anceWillMakePlayoffs.html
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jan 8 @ 4:20 PM ET
So I see you're still in denial.

leafs cap space = $1,905,833
Senators cap space = $ 14,116,666

Ottawa has more than Seven times the Cap space than the leafs.

It's quite clear that the team with Cap flexibility is in a way better position going forward than one which cannot improve it's roster through trades of UFA signings.



The leafs bring in a New President of Hockey operations, with much of the same messianic fanfare that there was when Brian Burke was brought in..............they hire an Analytics superstar wunderkind to be an assistant GM, they bring in two new Assistant coaches.

They basically swap out their bottom six forwards and claim they're improving the roster over last seasons'....................but after 41 games, they're in exactly the same place as last season, sitting at 45 points.

They're handcuffed with a payroll pounding it's head against the ceiling of the cap because successive GMs still think like the pre-cap era when term and price of contracts were an after thought.


Less than 20 days ago, after the leafs beat the Ducks 6 - 2, they had an over 95% chance of making the playoffs, and today they've slipped out of the Wild Card spot they hand firmly in their hands, and now only have a less than 55% chance of making the play offs.


How many times do you have to see this movie?

http://www.sportsclubstat...anceWillMakePlayoffs.html

- Doppleganger


I see you're still in denial. The Sens have roughly a $58M dollar budget, and $0 space under that budget.

It is quite clear that the team with budget flexibility is in a way better position going foward.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Jan 8 @ 7:57 PM ET
I see you're still in denial. The Sens have roughly a $58M dollar budget, and $0 space under that budget.

It is quite clear that the team with budget flexibility is in a way better position going foward.

- prock



It's quite clear that you do not want to talk about the dead-end, the leafs management have driven the team down the road to, don't have the Cap space flexibility to turn the team bus around for the foreseeable future because they only have approximately $1.9 Million in Cap space flexibility .




Meanwhile the Senators are BLASTING down the Interstate, and have 7.4 times more Cap space flexibility >>>>> $14,116,666 Million worth of Cap space flexibility to be precise.



This means they can re sign Mark Methot, should they choose, and take care of all the young prospects that are in the last year of their ELCs in the off season.

If the Cap declines (devaluing of the CDN dollar) the leaf will have to throw someone from the bus to stay under the Cap.....................while the Senators can open the door and bring as many players on board as they need.

prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jan 8 @ 8:26 PM ET
It's quite clear that you do not want to talk about the dead-end, the leafs management have driven the team down the road to, don't have the Cap space flexibility to turn the team bus around for the foreseeable future because they only have approximately $1.9 Million in Cap space flexibility .




Meanwhile the Senators are BLASTING down the Interstate, and have 7.4 times more Cap space flexibility >>>>> $14,116,666 Million worth of Cap space flexibility to be precise.



This means they can re sign Mark Methot, should they choose, and take care of all the young prospects that are in the last year of their ELCs in the off season.

If the Cap declines (devaluing of the CDN dollar) the leaf will have to throw someone from the bus to stay under the Cap.....................while the Senators can open the door and bring as many players on board as they need.

- Doppleganger



It's quite clear you do not want to talk about the dead end Senators having no budget to sign anyone, and for that matter, no players that want to sign in Ottawa, as shown by two consecutive captains wanting the hell out.

It the dollar declines, which it very likely will, the Senators will have to throw someone from the bus in order not to blow their budget, while the Leafs will have no problem affording as many players as they need.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Jan 9 @ 7:12 AM ET
Roman Polak, who had spent his entire NHL career in St. Louis before a trade to toronto last summer. He didn’t flinch when asked why the leafs haven’t played with enough defensive structure.


Because it’s hard work,” Polak said before Wednesday’s 6-2 loss to Washington. “It’s always tough to do something you know you don’t like to do. I think we have lots of guys that just want to play offence.


http://www.sportsnet.ca/h...ge-divided-dressing-room/



Two days ago the Bruins moved past the leafs in the points standings, last night it was the Panthers who moved past the leafs in the standings.

What can they do now, to turn around their season?
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Jan 9 @ 9:58 AM ET
On his current team. Brilliant observation by you, I'm impressed, and that's hard to do.

Would he be a second liner on the leafs?

- Doppleganger

No, he wouldn't.

...I'm not sure you understood the point.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Jan 9 @ 10:05 AM ET
No, he wouldn't.

...I'm not sure you understood the point.

- Feeling Glucky?



I've noticed your presence here has diminished quite a bit, which must mean you're spending your valuable time on your studies. Good choice.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jan 9 @ 10:27 AM ET
I've noticed your presence here has diminished quite a bit, which must mean you're spending your valuable time on your studies. Good choice.
- Doppleganger



I doubt Gluck needs that advice. You should have focused that kind of thing on your son, he wouldn't have ended up at Carleton.
the_cause2000
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Not quite my tempo
Joined: 02.26.2007

Jan 9 @ 10:30 AM ET
I doubt Gluck needs that advice. You should have focused that kind of thing on your son, he wouldn't have ended up at Carleton.
- prock

Those who can, do. Those who can't, go to Carleton

as a Gee-Gee grad I must say this grass aint much greener on the other side of the canal
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jan 9 @ 11:37 AM ET
Those who can, do. Those who can't, go to Carleton

as a Gee-Gee grad I must say this grass aint much greener on the other side of the canal

- the_cause2000



I've always found it sort of strange that the worst university in the country is in the capital city.

Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Jan 9 @ 12:24 PM ET
I've always found it sort of strange that the worst university in the country is in the capital city.
- prock


News Flash, toronto is not the Capital of Canada, it's the centre of the universe.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jan 9 @ 12:45 PM ET
News Flash, toronto is not the Capital of Canada, it's the centre of the universe.
- Doppleganger



I'm perfectly aware of that. What's with the random comment?
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Jan 9 @ 6:02 PM ET
I've noticed your presence here has diminished quite a bit, which must mean you're spending your valuable time on your studies. Good choice.
- Doppleganger

Just started class today actually. I was enjoying what the city has to offer over the break.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Jan 9 @ 11:47 PM ET
Just started class today actually. I was enjoying what the city has to offer over the break.
- Feeling Glucky?


Had a good friend of mine move down to toronto a few years back, and talks about a the Distillery District (?)
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Jan 10 @ 4:20 PM ET
Had a good friend of mine move down to toronto a few years back, and talks about a the Distillery District (?)
- Doppleganger

Yup, awesome little area, 20 minute walk from where I live. It's where mill street started.
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619, 620, 621, 622, 623, 624, 625, 626, 627, 628, 629, 630, 631, 632, 633, 634, 635, 636, 637, 638, 639, 640, 641, 642, 643, 644, 645, 646, 647, 648, 649, 650, 651, 652, 653, 654, 655, 656, 657, 658, 659, 660, 661, 662, 663, 664, 665, 666, 667, 668, 669, 670, 671, 672, 673, 674, 675, 676, 677, 678, 679, 680, 681, 682, 683, 684, 685, 686, 687, 688, 689, 690, 691, 692, 693, 694, 695, 696, 697, 698, 699, 700, 701, 702, 703, 704, 705, 706, 707, 708, 709, 710, 711, 712, 713, 714, 715, 716, 717, 718, 719, 720, 721, 722, 723, 724, 725, 726, 727, 728, 729, 730, 731, 732, 733, 734, 735, 736, 737, 738, 739, 740, 741, 742, 743, 744, 745, 746, 747, 748, 749, 750, 751, 752, 753, 754, 755, 756, 757, 758, 759, 760, 761, 762, 763, 764, 765, 766, 767, 768, 769, 770, 771, 772, 773, 774, 775, 776, 777, 778, 779, 780, 781, 782, 783, 784, 785, 786, 787, 788, 789, 790, 791, 792, 793, 794, 795, 796, 797, 798, 799, 800, 801, 802, 803, 804, 805, 806, 807, 808, 809, 810, 811, 812, 813, 814, 815, 816, 817, 818, 819, 820, 821, 822, 823, 824, 825, 826, 827, 828, 829, 830, 831, 832, 833, 834, 835, 836, 837, 838, 839, 840, 841, 842, 843, 844, 845, 846, 847, 848, 849, 850, 851, 852, 853, 854, 855, 856, 857, 858, 859, 860, 861, 862, 863, 864, 865, 866, 867, 868, 869, 870, 871, 872, 873, 874, 875, 876, 877, 878, 879, 880, 881, 882, 883, 884, 885, 886, 887, 888, 889, 890, 891, 892, 893, 894, 895, 896, 897, 898, 899, 900, 901, 902, 903, 904, 905, 906, 907, 908, 909, 910, 911, 912, 913, 914, 915, 916, 917, 918, 919, 920, 921, 922, 923, 924, 925, 926, 927, 928, 929, 930, 931, 932, 933, 934, 935, 936, 937, 938, 939, 940, 941, 942, 943, 944, 945, 946, 947, 948, 949, 950, 951, 952, 953, 954, 955, 956, 957, 958, 959, 960, 961, 962, 963, 964, 965, 966, 967, 968, 969, 970, 971, 972, 973, 974, 975, 976, 977, 978, 979, 980, 981, 982, 983, 984, 985, 986, 987, 988, 989, 990, 991, 992, 993, 994, 995, 996, 997, 998, 999, 1000, 1001, 1002, 1003, 1004, 1005, 1006, 1007, 1008, 1009, 1010, 1011, 1012, 1013, 1014, 1015, 1016, 1017, 1018, 1019, 1020, 1021, 1022, 1023, 1024, 1025, 1026, 1027, 1028, 1029, 1030, 1031, 1032, 1033, 1034, 1035, 1036, 1037, 1038, 1039, 1040, 1041, 1042, 1043, 1044, 1045, 1046, 1047, 1048, 1049, 1050, 1051, 1052, 1053, 1054, 1055, 1056, 1057, 1058, 1059, 1060, 1061, 1062, 1063, 1064, 1065, 1066, 1067, 1068, 1069, 1070, 1071, 1072, 1073, 1074, 1075, 1076, 1077, 1078, 1079, 1080, 1081, 1082, 1083, 1084, 1085, 1086, 1087, 1088, 1089, 1090, 1091, 1092, 1093, 1094, 1095, 1096, 1097, 1098, 1099, 1100, 1101, 1102, 1103, 1104, 1105, 1106, 1107, 1108, 1109, 1110, 1111, 1112, 1113, 1114, 1115, 1116, 1117, 1118, 1119, 1120, 1121, 1122, 1123, 1124, 1125, 1126, 1127, 1128, 1129, 1130, 1131, 1132, 1133, 1134, 1135, 1136, 1137, 1138, 1139, 1140, 1141, 1142, 1143, 1144, 1145, 1146, 1147, 1148, 1149, 1150, 1151, 1152, 1153, 1154, 1155, 1156  Next