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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
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Pecafan Fan
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Pacioretty, c'est mou comme d'la marde - Gilbert Delorme
Joined: 01.20.2009

Jan 6 @ 3:31 PM ET
Not really. It’s a pretty stupid question, because honestly, what kind of answer do you expect? What kind of quote are you going to get for print.

On top of that, it stemmed from Wilson’s axe grinding comments. As I said elsewhere, Wilson is trying to deflect blame for getting fired, IMO. Thing is, he was a terrible coach. He really was. He can talk about the Leafs players failing under two or three coaches, but the fact is, he’s failed with several teams.

Further, Wilson never named Kessel specifically, and in fact, in the interview, mentioned that he felt would be able to win with Kessel. Feschuck made the leap from Wilson claiming there was an issue with the players to “you’re the best player so he must be talking about you.” He gave that logic as his reasoning. When you think about it, that’s a very ridiculous leap. The former coach says there is an issue with the players, so he must be talking about their best one. Silly, don’t you think?

- prock


"You can't rely on Phil"

unless he was talking about another Phil?
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Jan 6 @ 3:35 PM ET
"You can't rely on Phil"

unless he was talking about another Phil?

- Pecafan Fan


@andystrickland: Nothing like a bitter ex coach throwing his former players under the bus. Should players now offer up their opinions? #givemeabreak #leafs


He also said the leafs improved each year he was there. Talking out of both sides of his mouth?
Pecafan Fan
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Pacioretty, c'est mou comme d'la marde - Gilbert Delorme
Joined: 01.20.2009

Jan 6 @ 3:38 PM ET
@andystrickland: Nothing like a bitter ex coach throwing his former players under the bus. Should players now offer up their opinions? #givemeabreak #leafs


He also said the leafs improved each year he was there. Talking out of both sides of his mouth?

- burn


They were better under him than they were under Carlyle that's for sure.

Actually, I find it cute that you guys still lay the blame on the coach and the players are absolved of criticism.
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Jan 6 @ 3:41 PM ET
They were better under him than they were under Carlyle that's for sure.

Actually, I find it cute that you guys still lay the blame on the coach and the players are absolved of criticism.

- Pecafan Fan



I don't think that's the case at all.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jan 6 @ 3:41 PM ET
"You can't rely on Phil"

unless he was talking about another Phil?

- Pecafan Fan


It was a long interview. That part, yes, he was obviously referring to Kessel. But at that point, his comments were about Kessel being streaky. 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off. That’s what he was saying at that point.

When he talked about being uncoachable, he wasn’t referring to anybody in particular. He said something like “2 or 3 coaches couldn’t succeed. It’s obviously the players faults”, or something to that effect. Unless I’m mistaken, he wasn’t referring to anyone in particular at that point.

It would also be silly to pin an entire team not succeeding, because one player, a player who produces 80 plus points a year, is uncoachable.
Pecafan Fan
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Pacioretty, c'est mou comme d'la marde - Gilbert Delorme
Joined: 01.20.2009

Jan 6 @ 3:45 PM ET
It was a long interview. That part, yes, he was obviously referring to Kessel. But at that point, his comments were about Kessel being streaky. 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off. That’s what he was saying at that point.

When he talked about being uncoachable, he wasn’t referring to anybody in particular. He said something like “2 or 3 coaches couldn’t succeed. It’s obviously the players faults”, or something to that effect. Unless I’m mistaken, he wasn’t referring to anyone in particular at that point.

It would also be silly to pin an entire team not succeeding, because one player, a player who produces 80 plus points a year, is uncoachable.

- prock


I wonder why Kessel was so defensive, then. I don't think Kessel is the main issue with the Leafs. But at some point, you have to start questioning of the core of this team will ever get the job done.
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Jan 6 @ 3:48 PM ET
I wonder why Kessel was so defensive, then. I don't think Kessel is the main issue with the Leafs. But at some point, you have to start questioning of the core of this team will ever get the job done.
- Pecafan Fan



Because a guy that has been nothing short of a douchbag repeatedly asked him if "it's fault the coach was fired, are you uncoachable"
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jan 6 @ 3:55 PM ET
They were better under him than they were under Carlyle that's for sure.

Actually, I find it cute that you guys still lay the blame on the coach and the players are absolved of criticism.

- Pecafan Fan



I’m not saying that in the least. The defense has been pitiful in recent years. A good portion of that lies in the coaches hands, but yeah, the players too.

All I’m saying is it’s silly for Wilson to be making comments like this. “It’s the players faults”??? Really?

He may not have had the greatest teams, but he was a TERRIBLE coach. Sounds a hell of a lot like he doesn’t think so. Sounds like he thought he was doing a great job. That much I disagree with. I could go on for pages about some of the things he’d do, that drove me nuts. For starters, he was one of the worst special teams coaches ever. His teams routinely had some of the worst PK numbers, as well as PP. How do you manage both of them being bad??? He also was incapable of adjusting. He had his “system”, and when it wasn’t working, he’d just keep trying it. It’s partially what made the PP so easy to defend. Anyway……

I actually thought Carlyle, while not great, was better than Wilson. I just don’t understand why, year after year, the team started great, but routinely got worse throughout the year. Someone posted the shot differential over ten game segments so far this year. It’s very strange, every year they would start good and deteriorate. It’s sort of puzzling.
Pecafan Fan
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Pacioretty, c'est mou comme d'la marde - Gilbert Delorme
Joined: 01.20.2009

Jan 6 @ 4:00 PM ET
I’m not saying that in the least. The defense has been pitiful in recent years. A good portion of that lies in the coaches hands, but yeah, the players too.

All I’m saying is it’s silly for Wilson to be making comments like this. “It’s the players faults”??? Really?

He may not have had the greatest teams, but he was a TERRIBLE coach. Sounds a hell of a lot like he doesn’t think so. Sounds like he thought he was doing a great job. That much I disagree with. I could go on for pages about some of the things he’d do, that drove me nuts. For starters, he was one of the worst special teams coaches ever. His teams routinely had some of the worst PK numbers, as well as PP. How do you manage both of them being bad??? He also was incapable of adjusting. He had his “system”, and when it wasn’t working, he’d just keep trying it. It’s partially what made the PP so easy to defend. Anyway……

I actually thought Carlyle, while not great, was better than Wilson. I just don’t understand why, year after year, the team started great, but routinely got worse throughout the year. Someone posted the shot differential over ten game segments so far this year. It’s very strange, every year they would start good and deteriorate. It’s sort of puzzling.

- prock


Isn't it Doughty who said they were the easiest team to play against? Then Cooper from TB, said that now that they'll play road games, we'd see what the Leafs team really is about?

Seems like across the league, the feeling is they're not a very good team. Not sure if it's a character thing, talent or system, but it seems them falling apart was predictable for some reason.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Jan 6 @ 4:03 PM ET
I wonder why Kessel was so defensive, then. I don't think Kessel is the main issue with the Leafs. But at some point, you have to start questioning of the core of this team will ever get the job done.
- Pecafan Fan



Interesting point brought up on one of the Sports Networks a few weeks ago, they were pointing out that no team has been built around a Winger, and has gone on to win the Cup, since Montreal with Guy Lafleur.

The concensus in the NHL, to put together a Cup contender, is that you build around a Center, and if you look at all the Stanley Cup winners since Montreal with Lafleur, this seems to be quite true.

Imagine if a team had a high scoring Center like Getzlaf, Malkin, Crosby, Tavares, Stamkos or Seguin to build a Cup contender with, instead of a streaky one dimensional winger, who won't play defence or play the left wing (on 5 vs) when asked by the coach.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jan 6 @ 4:08 PM ET
Isn't it Doughty who said they were the easiest team to play against? Then Cooper from TB, said that now that they'll play road games, we'd see what the Leafs team really is about?

Seems like across the league, the feeling is they're not a very good team. Not sure if it's a character thing, talent or system, but it seems them falling apart was predictable for some reason.

- Pecafan Fan


It’s happened every year. Every single year, under Carlyle, they deteriorate. You’re referring to this year. I don’t know what Doughty, or whatever, has said, but every single year, their stats, play, everything, deterioriates as the season progresses. The ten game segment thing seems to happen every year.

You don’t find that odd? If the feeling is that they’re not a good team, why is it that they play well every year, at the beginning of the season? It’s bizarre.

Regardless, as I say, I'm not taking anything Ron Wilson says seriously. Him blaming the players, and trying to absolve himself of blame is a joke. He's a bad coach.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jan 6 @ 4:10 PM ET
Interesting point brought up on one of the Sports Networks a few weeks ago, they were pointing out that no team has been built around a Winger, and has gone on to win the Cup, since Montreal with Guy Lafleur.

The concensus in the NHL, to put together a Cup contender, is that you build around a Center, and if you look at all the Stanley Cup winners since Montreal with Lafleur, this seems to be quite true.

Imagine if a team had a high scoring Center like Getzlaf, Malkin, Crosby, Tavares, Stamkos or Seguin to build a Cup contender with, instead of a streaky one dimensional winger, who won't play defence or play the left wing (on 5 vs) when asked by the coach.

- Doppleganger



Couldn't you say the same about the Sens, and building a team around a one dimensional dman, who won't play actual defense?

You want to chirp about the Leafs not having a top line centre, the Sens don't have a top 6 centre. Nor a top line winger for that matter. just a streaky one dimensional second line winger.
Symba007
Season Ticket Holder
Montreal Canadiens
Location: You are all perennial cynical sissies , ON
Joined: 02.26.2007

Jan 6 @ 4:15 PM ET
Interesting point brought up on one of the Sports Networks a few weeks ago, they were pointing out that no team has been built around a Winger, and has gone on to win the Cup, since Montreal with Guy Lafleur.

The concensus in the NHL, to put together a Cup contender, is that you build around a Center, and if you look at all the Stanley Cup winners since Montreal with Lafleur, this seems to be quite true.

Imagine if a team had a high scoring Center like Getzlaf, Malkin, Crosby, Tavares, Stamkos or Seguin to build a Cup contender with, instead of a streaky one dimensional winger, who won't play defence or play the left wing (on 5 vs) when asked by the coach.

- Doppleganger

Who was playing on D during those years? Robinson, Lapointe, Savard....

The team was not built around one player, a bunch of them are now in the NHL HOF
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Jan 6 @ 4:16 PM ET
read these comments on another site.

Feschuk is an idiot for asking that question. What kind of question is that? Of course he is tough to coach.. there is proof everywhere.

1. Reports out of Boston weren't exactly "we are losing a great team player" on Phil.
2. Feschuk himself wrote an article on what Spott said about Kessel.
3. Wilson, the only Leafs coach besides Carlyle to coach Kessel said pretty much the same thing.
4. J S Giguere was kind enough not to name Kessel, but it isn't tough to figure who he was pointing to.
5. Bill Watters said the same thing last week too.

So, either all of the above really hold a grudge on Kessel because he ran over their puppies; or they are all right and Kessel IS uncoachable.

Either way, Kessel is right in that Feschuk is an idiot for asking a question with such an obvious answer.






He is very selfish.....

Coach: "we want to try this break out"
Kessel: " no I will not do it"

Coach: "we want to try you on the left side"
Kessel: " No I do not want to play the Left side"

President: " we want you to play the left side"
Kessel " No I will not play that side"

Backcheck.....what is that....I think my ass is fine!
Block a shot my god that may hurt.


He is not interested in making the team better.....he is selfish.



Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Jan 6 @ 4:18 PM ET
Who was playing on D during those years? Robinson, Lapointe, Savard....

The team was not built around one player, a bunch of them are now in the NHL HOF

- Symba007





Then please name the last team that won the Cup, with a Winger as the the player the team was built around.
senstroll
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Jan 6 @ 4:32 PM ET
I think it was a good question.
- Pecafan Fan



you would
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jan 6 @ 4:34 PM ET



Then please name the last team that won the Cup, with a Winger as the the player the team was built around.

- Doppleganger


Name the last cup winning team that was built around one player?
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jan 6 @ 4:35 PM ET
you would
- senstroll


s
Habs fans.....
senstroll
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Jan 6 @ 4:37 PM ET



Then please name the last team that won the Cup, with a Winger as the the player the team was built around.

- Doppleganger


now you followup with a dumb question
Why is this about 1 player?

when was the last time a team won a cup with 1 player?
habman75
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Une plotzza, une plotine, and , QC
Joined: 09.07.2007

Jan 6 @ 9:50 PM ET
Leafs are probably going to go with the assistants until the offseason, when they know the status of Babcock
- Feeling Glucky?



Go Habs Go female doges!!!!
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Jan 6 @ 11:35 PM ET
now you followup with a dumb question
Why is this about 1 player?

when was the last time a team won a cup with 1 player?

- senstroll



When was the last time a team won a cup with a winger leading the way?

Teams that win the Cup almost always have a strong high scoring, two way Center to lead them.

2014 Anze Kopitar
2013 Jonathan Toews
2012 Anze Kopitar
2011 David Krejci
2010 Jonathan Toews
2009 Sidney Crosby
2008 Pavel Datsyuk
2007 Ryan Getzlaf
2006 Eric Staal
2004 Brad Richards

Just the last 10 Cups...........
daeth
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Drink full, and descend, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005

Jan 7 @ 7:08 AM ET
When was the last time a team won a cup with a winger leading the way?

Teams that win the Cup almost always have a strong high scoring, two way Center to lead them.

2014 Anze Kopitar
2013 Jonathan Toews
2012 Anze Kopitar
2011 David Krejci
2010 Jonathan Toews
2009 Sidney Crosby
2008 Pavel Datsyuk
2007 Ryan Getzlaf
2006 Eric Staal
2004 Brad Richards

Just the last 10 Cups...........

- Doppleganger

Toews was carried in 2013, he did almost nothing the whole playoffs. He had four wingers ahead of him in points on his team.

Nearly all those teams had at least one good winger as well as good center. Takes more than one player to win a cup.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Jan 7 @ 7:38 AM ET
now you followup with a dumb question
Why is this about 1 player?

when was the last time a team won a cup with 1 player?

- senstroll

If we are going with one player, when was the last time a team built around possibly the weakest dman defensively won anything?
daeth
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Drink full, and descend, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005

Jan 7 @ 7:42 AM ET
If we are going with one player, when was the last time a team built around possibly the weakest dman defensively won anything?
- Feeling Glucky?

Tampa won a cup with Kubina being a top 2 dman

Anything is possible
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Jan 7 @ 7:48 AM ET
Toews was carried in 2013, he did almost nothing the whole playoffs. He had four wingers ahead of him in points on his team.

Nearly all those teams had at least one good winger as well as good center. Takes more than one player to win a cup.

- daeth



Toews was second in points and tied for first in goals, on his team during the regular season, and was a Plus 28, also the best on his team.

Chicago does not to the playoffs without Toews.
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