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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
Author Message
senstroll
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Oct 23 @ 12:34 PM ET
"WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?"


Both teams will probably fall just short of the last "wild card" spot in the East.

- Doppleganger


longer term 100% the leafs now
Shanahan, Dubas, Hunter and an analytics department

Mirtle mentioned Hunter was getting 1 mil per year or something like that.. they are finally spending money on the right people upstairs

they will leave the sens in the dust
CupOnBroadSt.
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: PA
Joined: 07.23.2012

Oct 23 @ 12:34 PM ET
Clearly the Sens are in a better situation because they have a very young All-Star caliber player to build around in Karlsson.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Oct 23 @ 3:04 PM ET
longer term 100% the leafs now
Shanahan, Dubas, Hunter and an analytics department

Mirtle mentioned Hunter was getting 1 mil per year or something like that.. they are finally spending money on the right people upstairs

they will leave the sens in the dust

- senstroll


First of all don't put all your faith in analytics, as they alone are not going to give an edge over their provincial rivals.

To think that the Senators don't have someone crunching statistics and advanced statistics, for the teams, would be fooling yourself.


In my opinion there are too many cooks, now in the leafs kitchen, and I don;t see that as a good thing in the long run.

As far as who has the better group of prospects, it's pretty much even if you canvass the dew websites that rank organizational depth in prospects.

And for the team with the youngest average age, the Sens are so slightly young that the leafs, that again it's a saw off.

So to say 100% the leafs are better off is, in my opinion a really big lead of faith in the reasons you point out.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Oct 23 @ 3:05 PM ET
Clearly the Sens are in a better situation because they have a very young All-Star caliber player to build around in Karlsson.
- CupOnBroadSt.



to be fair the leafs have pretty good offensive player themselves.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Oct 23 @ 4:45 PM ET
First of all don't put all your faith in analytics, as they alone are not going to give an edge over their provincial rivals.

To think that the Senators don't have someone crunching statistics and advanced statistics, for the teams, would be fooling yourself.


In my opinion there are too many cooks, now in the leafs kitchen, and I don;t see that as a good thing in the long run.

As far as who has the better group of prospects, it's pretty much even if you canvass the dew websites that rank organizational depth in prospects.

And for the team with the youngest average age, the Sens are so slightly young that the leafs, that again it's a saw off.

So to say 100% the leafs are better off is, in my opinion a really big lead of faith in the reasons you point out.

- Doppleganger



Yea, but they all need to split computer time with everyone else in the organization, since Melnyk could only afford one laptop. A Dell.
Cape Breton Bruins
Boston Bruins
Location: 771 pages of no one caring, AB
Joined: 11.26.2008

Oct 23 @ 5:49 PM ET
Yea, but they all need to split computer time with everyone else in the organization, since Melnyk could only afford one laptop. A Dell.
- Feeling Glucky?

And the leafs bought 120,466 dells with their deep pockets.
daeth
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Drink full, and descend, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005

Oct 23 @ 6:00 PM ET
would this work?
http://www.cnet.com/products/torpark/

- Doppleganger

That would unfortunately be too slow I think.
daeth
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Drink full, and descend, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005

Oct 23 @ 6:02 PM ET
I don't think you need it, though. You should be able to just switch your DNS, to trick center ice into thinking you're somewhere outside the blackout area.
- Feeling Glucky?

I haven't heard of anyone having much success with any of the free options, not without a lot of effort anyway.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Oct 23 @ 8:25 PM ET
I haven't heard of anyone having much success with any of the free options, not without a lot of effort anyway.
- daeth

give it a try. turn off your vpn, and try using a DNS from the US. Just google "US Netflix DNS"
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Oct 23 @ 8:25 PM ET
And the leafs bought 120,466 dells with their deep pockets.
- Cape Breton Bruins

which is better than everyone having to share one.
senstroll
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Oct 24 @ 8:23 AM ET
First of all don't put all your faith in analytics, as they alone are not going to give an edge over their provincial rivals.

To think that the Senators don't have someone crunching statistics and advanced statistics, for the teams, would be fooling yourself.


In my opinion there are too many cooks, now in the leafs kitchen, and I don;t see that as a good thing in the long run.

As far as who has the better group of prospects, it's pretty much even if you canvass the dew websites that rank organizational depth in prospects.

And for the team with the youngest average age, the Sens are so slightly young that the leafs, that again it's a saw off.

So to say 100% the leafs are better off is, in my opinion a really big lead of faith in the reasons you point out.

- Doppleganger


I said longterm...
and imo having more Smart people like Shanahan, Dubas, Hunter, metcalf, charron and Pettapiece is much better than having less dumb people.. Nonis, Loiselle and Poulin

Also I am not putting all my faith in analytics which is why I mentioned Shanahan, Dubas and Hunter..non of them are number crunchers..just smart open minded management.

the other component where the leafs have the advantage is the money they can apply to new tracking systems.. the sens I doubt with Melnyk will invest in that

easily the leafs are better off looking ahead 3-5 years

Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Oct 24 @ 10:16 AM ET
I said longterm...
and imo having more Smart people like Shanahan, Dubas, Hunter, metcalf, charron and Pettapiece is much better than having less dumb people.. Nonis, Loiselle and Poulin

Also I am not putting all my faith in analytics which is why I mentioned Shanahan, Dubas and Hunter..non of them are number crunchers..just smart open minded management.

the other component where the leafs have the advantage is the money they can apply to new tracking systems.. the sens I doubt with Melnyk will invest in that

easily the leafs are better off looking ahead 3-5 years

- senstroll




As of right now both teams are projected to finish just short of the Wild Card spots in the East. Both teams prospects are ranked around the tenth-eleventh area, depending on which service you read.

So at this point in time they're both pretty much even in most aspects of measurement.

I'm not going to agree that the money the leafs can apply to new tracking systems is, first off not a whole lot to begin with, or secondly, the difference in selecting prospects or making trades.

toronto has the advantage of parking bad contracts in the AHL, but most of what I see you saying is that the leafs have a lot more players at the table when it comes to drafting of trading for players.

For me that's too many cooks in the Kitchen, and not necessarily the best recipe for success in the long term.

But we're talking about player acquisition, in any form, in the future, so it's going to hard to tell today.

senstroll
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Oct 24 @ 10:54 AM ET
As of right now both teams are projected to finish just short of the Wild Card spots in the East. Both teams prospects are ranked around the tenth-eleventh area, depending on which service you read.

So at this point in time they're both pretty much even in most aspects of measurement.

I'm not going to agree that the money the leafs can apply to new tracking systems is, first off not a whole lot to begin with, or secondly, the difference in selecting prospects or making trades.

toronto has the advantage of parking bad contracts in the AHL, but most of what I see you saying is that the leafs have a lot more players at the table when it comes to drafting of trading for players.

For me that's too many cooks in the Kitchen, and not necessarily the best recipe for success in the long term.

But we're talking about player acquisition, in any form, in the future, so it's going to hard to tell today.

- Doppleganger


everything about the way leafs operate has changed this summer
we are still seeing that with the Hunter hiring... that came out of no where and surprised a lot of people.

its going to get lopsided in the leafs favor in the future.. its about time
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Oct 24 @ 3:04 PM ET
everything about the way leafs operate has changed this summer
we are still seeing that with the Hunter hiring... that came out of no where and surprised a lot of people.

its going to get lopsided in the leafs favor in the future.. its about time

- senstroll



"Lopsided", " longer term 100%"

Are you expecting Ottawa to standstill, and NOT keep pace with all other teams in the NHL?
senstroll
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Oct 24 @ 3:11 PM ET
"Lopsided", " longer term 100%"

Are you expecting Ottawa to standstill, and NOT keep pace with all other teams in the NHL?

- Doppleganger


I am just talking about the leafs and sens

oh and you were concerned about Nylander not playing

Corey Pronman ‏@coreypronman
12 months ago Nylander couldn't get a 4th line shift in the SHL. Now he's probably one of if not the league's best player.


he is doing fine
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Oct 24 @ 3:18 PM ET
I am just talking about the leafs and sens

oh and you were concerned about Nylander not playing



he is doing fine

- senstroll


I was not concerned that he was not playing, I was pointing out that he should have been sent to the Marlies, or the OHL if he was eligible........and either of these two leagues would better prepare him for the NHL.

The SHL is basically a non-contact league, and players from this league, in general, and further behind than their peers in the OHL and the AHL when adapting to the North American style of play in the NHL. (see Rundblad)


Are you suggesting an above average performance in the SHL, will have him better prepared for the NHL than if he had just an average performance with the Marlies?
senstroll
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Oct 24 @ 3:28 PM ET
I was not concerned that he was not playing, I was pointing out that he should have been sent to the Marlies, or the OHL if he was eligible........and either of these two leagues would better prepare him for the NHL.

The SHL is basically a non-contact league, and players from this league, in general, and further behind than their peers in the OHL and the AHL when adapting to the North American style of play in the NHL. (see Rundblad)


Are you suggesting an above average performance in the SHL, will have him better prepared for the NHL than if he had just an average performance with the Marlies?

- Doppleganger


what about Eric Karlsson?
what path did he take?
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Oct 24 @ 3:35 PM ET
SEL > AHL > NHL

If memory serves me correctly he was under contract to Frolunda HC when drafted and that's why the choice was only to return to the SEL. After that he did a small stint in the AHL.

I don't think Nylander was under contract to anyone, and could have been sent to the AHL, SHL, OHL or kept by the leafs.
senstroll
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Oct 24 @ 3:46 PM ET
SEL > AHL > NHL

If memory serves me correctly he was under contract to Frolunda HC when drafted and that's why the choice was only to return to the SEL. After that he did a small stint in the AHL.

I don't think Nylander was under contract to anyone, and could have been sent to the AHL, SHL, OHL or kept by the leafs.

- Doppleganger



so after he was drafted he played a season in Sweden
hmm

I hope Karlsson turns out OK...playing again wimps and no contact.

it was the right move for an 18 year old... he doesn't turn 19 until may
lots of time no need to rush him

Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Oct 24 @ 4:01 PM ET
so after he was drafted he played a season in Sweden
hmm

I hope Karlsson turns out OK...playing again wimps and no contact.

it was the right move for an 18 year old... he doesn't turn 19 until may
lots of time no need to rush him

- senstroll



Oh did you miss the fact that Karlsson was still under contract to his SEL club?

Ottawa had no choice but to let him return to Sweden, and the next year he has NOPT ready for the the NHL, and was shipped to the AHL.

Nylander has four options, Karlsson only one.

So once again you're comparing apples to oranges.



Answer me this.............would Willy have been better served playing with Marlies this season, in his preparation for the NHL, or his better off playing the 30 to 35 games in the SHL?

He and the team had the choice.

Perhaps they plan to send his to the AHL for a season or two after next training camp.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Oct 24 @ 4:27 PM ET
"Lopsided", " longer term 100%"

Are you expecting Ottawa to standstill, and NOT keep pace with all other teams in the NHL
?

- Doppleganger

That's what happens when you don't put money into the organization. You don't keep pace.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Oct 24 @ 4:29 PM ET
Oh did you miss the fact that Karlsson was still under contract to his SEL club?

Ottawa had no choice but to let him return to Sweden, and the next year he has NOPT ready for the the NHL, and was shipped to the AHL.

Nylander has four options, Karlsson only one.

So once again you're comparing apples to oranges.




Answer me this.............would Willy have been better served playing with Marlies this season, in his preparation for the NHL, or his better off playing the 30 to 35 games in the SHL?

He and the team had the choice.

Perhaps they plan to send his to the AHL for a season or two after next training camp.

- Doppleganger

Not really... they both played in that league, as opposed to this one. The why doesn't matter, when talking about the effect that league had on their development.


But maybe being in the SEL is the reason Karlsson can't play a lick of defense... maybe Nylander would have been better served in the AHL


In any case, given Nylander's size, yes, he probably is 2 or 3 years away from making the NHL, similar to Kadri's development... But hopefully handled a bit more intelligently this time around, and given an actual shot in the NHL, rather than forced to show off his offensive skill on the 4th line.
daeth
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Drink full, and descend, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005

Oct 24 @ 11:20 PM ET
give it a try. turn off your vpn, and try using a DNS from the US. Just google "US Netflix DNS"
- Feeling Glucky?

That stuff is more work than it's worth to me. I'd be mad if I had to search for 30 minutes to find a working one on game night. For other people maybe it's fine, I am not sure.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Oct 25 @ 11:00 AM ET
That stuff is more work than it's worth to me. I'd be mad if I had to search for 30 minutes to find a working one on game night. For other people maybe it's fine, I am not sure.
- daeth

There are websites that update them on a daily/weekly basis, just bookmark one
senstroll
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Oct 25 @ 1:26 PM ET
Oh did you miss the fact that Karlsson was still under contract to his SEL club?

Ottawa had no choice but to let him return to Sweden, and the next year he has NOPT ready for the the NHL, and was shipped to the AHL.

Nylander has four options, Karlsson only one.

So once again you're comparing apples to oranges.



Answer me this.............would Willy have been better served playing with Marlies this season, in his preparation for the NHL, or his better off playing the 30 to 35 games in the SHL?

He and the team had the choice.

Perhaps they plan to send his to the AHL for a season or two after next training camp.

- Doppleganger


you were asking about development not options they have

He is better playing in the SEL right now
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