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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
Author Message
Pecafan Fan
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Pacioretty, c'est mou comme d'la marde - Gilbert Delorme
Joined: 01.20.2009

Sep 25 @ 11:43 AM ET
Player I've never seen play other than scrimmage and one preseason game > Than Player I saw play a few games at the WJC and 1 preseason game


Makes a lot of sense.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Sep 25 @ 11:44 AM ET
Cool the jets. Every great rookie prospect of the Leafs first gets anointed as the next best ever only to be destroyed for his failure to live up to all the false hype. Do you think Nylander will play a better 200' game than Kadri?
- spatso


I know Kadri will be better than Jared Cowen!
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Sep 25 @ 11:45 AM ET
Your off your game. Not a very good response for you at all. Far below your normal standard. Are you feeling okay?
- spatso



Awww, can't come up with a decent response? Try to troll now?

Nice of you to concede.
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Sep 25 @ 11:45 AM ET
I know Kadri will be better than Jared Cowen!
- prock
Yep he is a much better forward than cowen
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Sep 25 @ 11:47 AM ET
Yep he is a much better forward than cowen

- top shelf 15



He is a decent player.

Cowen is not.

Thank god Murray tricked Burke into taking Kadri. Bahahahahahaahahahah.

It makes me laugh that you’re stuck with that crap.
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Sep 25 @ 11:48 AM ET
He is a decent player.

Cowen is not.

Thank god Murray tricked Burke into taking Kadri. Bahahahahahaahahahah.

It makes me laugh that you’re stuck with that crap.

- prock
Iam hurt
,but ill live
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Sep 25 @ 11:48 AM ET
So puempel is a better junior player, and leivo is a better pro player?

I'm good with that.

- Feeling Glucky?


Not really.

What Pierre Dorion has explained is that goal scoring is the special talent that every scout searches out. The other thing they look at is the kind of goals that get scored. But, most important they monitor skill progression.

What is impressive about Puemple is not just that he scored 30 goals but it is how and where they were scored. He only scored 7 goals in the first half of the season and 23 in the 2nd half. This is the kind of progression that suggests the kid has another gear and might be able to duplicate the same result at the next level. Dorion is huge believer in Puemple.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Sep 25 @ 11:49 AM ET
He is a decent player.

Cowen is not.

Thank god Murray tricked Burke into taking Kadri. Bahahahahahaahahahah.

It makes me laugh that you’re stuck with that crap.

- prock

Well, we're stuck with Clarkson. So we gotta find something to laugh about.
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Sep 25 @ 11:49 AM ET
What do you base lazar being better than Nylander on? One good season in the WHL, when he was older than most guys he played against?

Nylander played in men's leagues. Unless you watched both players last season(highly doubt you watched either)... You can't compare stats.

But going by stats, lazar hasn't shown that much offensively... One good(not great) season doesn't give him "huge" offensive upside. As prock pointed out, his numbers aren't too much better than Leivo's.

Ps. if Lazar had "huge" offensive potential, what about the Leafs's Connor Brown? Elite-level?

- Feeling Glucky?


40g 76pts in WHL, while missing significant time to play in the world jrs (where he was one of, if not the best forwards), while having a complete game........he's shown more than nylander, who barely played 22 games in the mene league last year, and anohter 35 in the jr league (or whatever they call the league below the big swedish league).

i'm not predicting the future, nylander could very well end up being a better player.....but you'd be VERY hard pressed to find any scout or analyst who thinks that lazar isn't the better player right now.
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Sep 25 @ 11:51 AM ET
Well, we're stuck with Clarkson. So we gotta find something to laugh about.
- Feeling Glucky?
I like Cowen and think he is gonna be a good top 4 defender so there !!!
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Sep 25 @ 11:52 AM ET
Not really.

What Pierre Dorion has explained is that goal scoring is the special talent that every scout searches out. The other thing they look at is the kind of goals that get scored. But, most important they monitor skill progression.

What is impressive about Puemple is not just that he scored 30 goals but it is how and where they were scored. He only scored 7 goals in the first half of the season and 23 in the 2nd half. This is the kind of progression that suggests the kid has another gear and might be able to duplicate the same result at the next level. Dorion is huge believer in Puemple.

- spatso


So what you're saying is, he's inconsistent, and his goal total went up during a hot streak?

And the fact that he's marginally better at scoring goals(to the point that a single lucky bounce could have put Leivo ahead in that department) means that he's a special talent, and Leivo is meh?

Interesting.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Sep 25 @ 11:53 AM ET
40g 76pts in WHL, while missing significant time to play in the world jrs (where he was one of, if not the best forwards), while having a complete game........he's shown more than nylander, who barely played 22 games in the mene league last year, and anohter 35 in the jr league (or whatever they call the league below the big swedish league).

i'm not predicting the future, nylander could very well end up being a better player.....but you'd be VERY hard pressed to find any scout or analyst who thinks that lazar isn't the better player right now.

- sensarmy_11



I think you'd be hard pressed to find any scout that would take Lazar over Nylander all things considered. Same goes for GM. Whether you want to say RIGHT NOW or not.
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Sep 25 @ 11:53 AM ET
So puempel is a better junior player, and leivo is a better pro player?

I'm good with that.

Oh, and being on pace for one more goal isn't exactly "killing him" in goals.

- Feeling Glucky?


i wouldn't necessarily say he's a better pro. for teh 1st half of hte AHL season, puempel was playing on the 4th line and only scored like 7 or 8 goals.....he got promoted to a top six role in the 2nd half when zibby, stone, hoffman, etc got called up, and was one of the best goal scorers in the entire AHL the second half of the season (23 goals in 30 games or something like that).

i think both players are comparable, what i laugh at is prock saying that leivo is without a doubt the superior player.
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Sep 25 @ 11:54 AM ET
I think you'd be hard pressed to find any scout that would take Lazar over Nylander all things considered. Same goes for GM. Whether you want to say RIGHT NOW or not.
- prock


i reiterate my previous point as it pertains to your "opinions"

spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Sep 25 @ 11:56 AM ET
40g 76pts in WHL, while missing significant time to play in the world jrs (where he was one of, if not the best forwards), while having a complete game........he's shown more than nylander, who barely played 22 games in the mene league last year, and anohter 35 in the jr league (or whatever they call the league below the big swedish league).

i'm not predicting the future, nylander could very well end up being a better player.....but you'd be VERY hard pressed to find any scout or analyst who thinks that lazar isn't the better player right now.

- sensarmy_11


Kind of funny to hear TSN broadcast crew rave about the complete player that Lazar has become, far beyond what you would expect for his age. And, they talk about Nylanders lack of physical presence to play at the NHL level. Yet, the koolaid brigade proceeds to anoint William as the next coming without regard to just how hard it really is to get to the next step.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Sep 25 @ 11:56 AM ET
i reiterate my previous point as it pertains to your "opinions"

- sensarmy_11


I know it hurts for you to realize I'm right. Poor guy.
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Sep 25 @ 11:57 AM ET
So what you're saying is, he's inconsistent, and his goal total went up during a hot streak?

And the fact that he's marginally better at scoring goals(to the point that a single lucky bounce could have put Leivo ahead in that department) means that he's a special talent, and Leivo is meh?

Interesting.

- Feeling Glucky?


i think his point is as valid as the point that because leivo had a few more secondary assists, where he often had absolutely nothing to do with the goal that was scored, somehow makes him a better player.

if both players have similar point totals, you likely want the guy who scores more goals vs the guy who gets more assists
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Sep 25 @ 11:58 AM ET
I know it hurts for you to realize I'm right. Poor guy.
- prock


you're only "right" (in your own mind) because, like i said, you don't let facts get in your way..........good ol prock
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Sep 25 @ 11:59 AM ET
40g 76pts in WHL, while missing significant time to play in the world jrs (where he was one of, if not the best forwards), while having a complete game........he's shown more than nylander, who barely played 22 games in the mene league last year, and anohter 35 in the jr league (or whatever they call the league below the big swedish league).

i'm not predicting the future, nylander could very well end up being a better player.....but you'd be VERY hard pressed to find any scout or analyst who thinks that lazar isn't the better player right now.

- sensarmy_11

You'd probably be even harder pressed to find one that thinks he is


Nylander killed it at the u18s this year, over 2ppg. What tournament did lazar play in when he was 17?
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Sep 25 @ 12:03 PM ET
You'd probably be even harder pressed to find one that thinks he is


Nylander killed it at the u18s this year, over 2ppg. What tournament did lazar play in when he was 17?

- Feeling Glucky?


lazar killed it at the u20, which is a significantly higher calibre tournament...........who cares about the u18
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Sep 25 @ 12:04 PM ET
i think his point is as valid as the point that because leivo had a few more secondary assists, where he often had absolutely nothing to do with the goal that was scored, somehow makes him a better player.

if both players have similar point totals, you likely want the guy who scores more goals vs the guy who gets more assists

- sensarmy_11

Their goal production at the pro level is almost identical.

Leivo wins in point production.

Who do you take, a guy with 29 goals, and 52 points, or a guy with 30 goals and 48?

And since spastic's so big on +/-, let's add in that the first guy is a +6, while the other is -11.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Sep 25 @ 12:07 PM ET
lazar killed it at the u20, which is a significantly higher calibre tournament...........who cares about the u18
- sensarmy_11

Well, I'm sure if Lazar had been good enough to make the u18s, you'd care


Edit: and the league Nylander played in the most when he wasn't in the super-elit was the Swedish equivalent of the AHL, so still a professional men's league, not a junior team. And he was over ppg there.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Sep 25 @ 12:08 PM ET
You'd probably be even harder pressed to find one that thinks he is


Nylander killed it at the u18s this year, over 2ppg. What tournament did lazar play in when he was 17?

- Feeling Glucky?



shhh don't tell anyone, but I think he did play the u18 tournament.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Sep 25 @ 12:10 PM ET
i think his point is as valid as the point that because leivo had a few more secondary assists, where he often had absolutely nothing to do with the goal that was scored, somehow makes him a better player.

if both players have similar point totals, you likely want the guy who scores more goals vs the guy who gets more assists

- sensarmy_11



hahaha. While I can understand why you're getting a little hurt here, what do you have to base that on? Anything? Or are you just pulling stupid crap out of your a$$?
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Sep 25 @ 12:12 PM ET
shhh don't tell anyone, but I think he did play the u18 tournament.
- spatso

Oh? And how'd he do?

Over 2 points per game?
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