Wanna blog? Start your own hockey blog with My HockeyBuzz. Register for free today!
 
Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
Author Message
TheTaoOfSemenko
Vegas Golden Knights
Joined: 07.01.2009

Apr 16 @ 10:25 AM ET
Is this thread redundant yet?
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Apr 16 @ 10:28 AM ET
Is this thread redundant yet?
- TheTaoOfSemenko


It's settled, Senators 4 points up on the leafs.
TheTaoOfSemenko
Vegas Golden Knights
Joined: 07.01.2009

Apr 16 @ 10:31 AM ET
That'd be a yes.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Apr 16 @ 12:42 PM ET
It's settled, Senators 4 points up on the leafs.
- Doppleganger

It is settled. Until the Senators get an owner willing to spend to keep assets, the Leafs are in a better position.

But it looks like the Sens are taking steps to keep Ryan... by not offering Spezza a contract.
Mr_Squeaks
Ottawa Senators
Location: Location: Location: Glitch in
Joined: 06.26.2006

Apr 16 @ 12:56 PM ET
It is settled. Until the Senators get an owner willing to spend to keep assets, the Leafs are in a better position.

But it looks like the Sens are taking steps to keep Ryan... by not offering Spezza a contract.

- Feeling Glucky?


Between Toronto's collapsing core and Ottawa's collapsing ownership, I'm really not sure how we can settle this at this point. Advantage Toronto, as you can trade away the Kessels for players with heart, but you can't trade away the Melnyks for owners with brains...
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Apr 16 @ 1:30 PM ET
Between Toronto's collapsing core and Ottawa's collapsing ownership, I'm really not sure how we can settle this at this point. Advantage Toronto, as you can trade away the Kessels for players with heart, but you can't trade away the Melnyks for owners with brains...
- Mr_Squeaks

trying to be a peacemaker?
Mr_Squeaks
Ottawa Senators
Location: Location: Location: Glitch in
Joined: 06.26.2006

Apr 16 @ 3:25 PM ET
trying to be a peacemaker?
- Feeling Glucky?


My natural tendancy...
jordan456789
Joined: 10.27.2007

Apr 16 @ 4:46 PM ET
The sens have the better NHL team and cap space but an owner too cheap to spend it.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Apr 16 @ 4:55 PM ET
It is settled. Until the Senators get an owner willing to spend to keep assets, the Leafs are in a better position.

But it looks like the Sens are taking steps to keep Ryan... by not offering Spezza a contract.

- Feeling Glucky?




Did the owner of the Avalanche spend to the Cap?


There are no points earned from the amount of money an owner spends.


http://www.ottawasun.com/...fer-final-words-on-season

Eugene Melnyk Tuesday, April 15, 2014

“It’s very, very easy to increase payroll, any idiot can do it. Lots of idiots do.”


well said
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Apr 16 @ 4:58 PM ET
Did the owner of the Avalanche spend to the Cap?


There are no points earned from the amount of money an owner spends.


http://www.ottawasun.com/...fer-final-words-on-season

Eugene Melnyk Tuesday, April 15, 2014

“It’s very, very easy to increase payroll, any idiot can do it. Lots of idiots do.”


well said

- Doppleganger

I wasn't aware the Avs won the cup.

We've been over this, spending money doesn't guarantee you a cup.

But not spending pretty much guarantees you won't be getting the cup.

Melnyk's deflecting his own shortcomings onto other owners/managers. Keeps the sheeple from realizing he's the reason the Sens won't do much while he's around.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Apr 16 @ 5:03 PM ET
I wasn't aware the Avs won the cup.

We've been over this, spending money doesn't guarantee you a cup.

But not spending pretty much guarantees you won't be getting the cup.

Melnyk's deflecting his own shortcomings onto other owners/managers. Keeps the sheeple from realizing he's the reason the Sens won't do much while he's around.

- Feeling Glucky?




But doesn't spending more money make a team better?


The Avalanche have the second best odds at wining the Cup, but they didn't spend to the cap.

http://www.vegasinsider.com/nhl/odds/futures/



But the leafs spent to the cap, and they didn't make the playoffs. Doesn't that prove the opposite of what you're preaching?
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Apr 16 @ 5:05 PM ET
But doesn't spending more money make a team better?
- Doppleganger

spending more money is the only way to build and maintain a good team.


Being cheap and letting your core players walk when they ask for their worth is what Ballard did.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Apr 16 @ 5:09 PM ET
spending more money is the only way to build and maintain a good team.


Being cheap and letting your core players walk when they ask for their worth is what Ballard did.

- Feeling Glucky?




But the leafs spent to the cap, and they're not a good team, they finished behind many teams, including the Ottawa Senators, who spent less.

Doesn't this blow your theory out of the water?


Was Ballard the owner when the leafs let Sundin walk?
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Apr 16 @ 5:14 PM ET
But doesn't spending more money make a team better?


The Avalanche have the second best odds at wining the Cup, but they didn't spend to the cap.

http://www.vegasinsider.com/nhl/odds/futures/

- Doppleganger


funny how the favourite team, and the other teams tied for 2nd are all spending near the cap.

But in any case, Ottawa's roster and prospects don't come close to comparing to the RFAs currently driving Colorado forward.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Apr 16 @ 5:20 PM ET
But the leafs spent to the cap, and they're not a good team, they finished behind many teams, including the Ottawa Senators, who spent less.

Doesn't this blow your theory out of the water?


Was Ballard the owner when the leafs let Sundin walk?

- Doppleganger

Not if you can read.


And as for Sundin, he didn't want to be traded, team tried to get something for him. And rumour has it, he didn't want to re-sign, either. You won't find many Leafs fans defending that move, as you defend allowing Alfredsson to leave. It also wasn't the same ownership group, or GM that the Leafs currently have. And the Leafs had their 1st the next season. So basically, you couldn't have made a more useless point.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Apr 16 @ 5:20 PM ET
Keep it simple. In the modern NHL era (post expansion) neither the Leafs or Senators have won a Stanley Cup. The Senators have made it to the Cup final once. The Leafs have made it to the Conference final twice in the modern era.

So, we are not talking about the sharpest knife.

However, I do believe the Senators have had better management and far better team success especially over the last 10 years.

I do believe Ottawa is making the right decision in moving Spezza. They are avoiding the trap the Leafs fell into with Sundin which was the beginning of this 10 year drought.

I have said for years that the greatest Leaf problem is their unlimited funding. They have for way too long believed they could buy their way to success. It has been an abysmal failure. They have lacked vision and patience and they have repeated the same pattern of mistake over and over again.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Apr 16 @ 5:24 PM ET
funny how the favourite team, and the other teams tied for 2nd are all spending near the cap.

.

- Feeling Glucky?


But the leafs spent more than Montreal, Chicago, Anaheim, Tampa Bay St Louis, Los Angeles, New York and Dallas...............but they have zero chance at winning the Cup this spring.

How is this possible, spending more money, according to you, is susposed to be a major reason a team wins the Cup.


As a matter of fact, I'll bet if you added up what the leafs have spent on players, for the past 47 years, and compared that to the other "original six" teams, it would not prove your point.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Apr 16 @ 5:28 PM ET
But the leafs spent more than Montreal, Chicago, Anaheim, Tampa Bay St Louis, Los Angeles, New York and Dallas...............but they have zero chance at winning the Cup this spring.

How is this possible, spending more money, according to you, is susposed to be a major reason a team wins the Cup.


As a matter of fact, I'll bet if you added up what the leafs have spent on players, for the past 47 years, and compared that to the other "original six" teams, it would not prove your point.

- Doppleganger


It is actually more complex than this. Teams that are successful tend to build a team by creating cap space, drafting and allowing their team to grow into their full cap space. Teams that spend to the cap and miss the playoffs are the worst possible examples of mismanagement.
RogerRoeper
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 03.27.2007

Apr 16 @ 9:13 PM ET
Keep it simple. In the modern NHL era (post expansion) neither the Leafs or Senators have won a Stanley Cup. The Senators have made it to the Cup final once. The Leafs have made it to the Conference final twice in the modern era.

So, we are not talking about the sharpest knife.

However, I do believe the Senators have had better management and far better team success especially over the last 10 years.

I do believe Ottawa is making the right decision in moving Spezza. They are avoiding the trap the Leafs fell into with Sundin which was the beginning of this 10 year drought.

I have said for years that the greatest Leaf problem is their unlimited funding. They have for way too long believed they could buy their way to success. It has been an abysmal failure. They have lacked vision and patience and they have repeated the same pattern of mistake over and over again.

- spatso



4 times actually.

93', 94', 99' and 02'.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Apr 16 @ 11:49 PM ET
It is actually more complex than this. Teams that are successful tend to build a team by creating cap space, drafting and allowing their team to grow into their full cap space. Teams that spend to the cap and miss the playoffs are the worst possible examples of mismanagement.
- spatso



Great explanation. Why can't someone like Feeling Glucky see this? I don't think he's stupid, so is he delusional?
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Apr 17 @ 5:15 AM ET
4 times actually.

93', 94', 99' and 02'.

- RogerRoeper


Oops, forgot 94 and 99.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Apr 17 @ 5:59 AM ET
Great explanation. Why can't someone like Feeling Glucky see this? I don't think he's stupid, so is he delusional?
- Doppleganger


I think I can explain this in pretty simple terms. The Karpman triangle is a well known psychological model used to explain patterns in hostage taking (Stockholm syndrome) and different kinds of abusive relationships.

Essentially the abuser takes a victim causing a rescuer to arrive on the scene (think abusive husband, battered wife and police officer). So, police officer moves to subdue abusive husband, battered wife attacks cop to prevent husband from being hurt and cop gets abused by the now protective wife. In this stage 2 model, the abusive husband takes on the role of victim, the wife perceives herself as his rescuer and the cop is perceived by the wife as the abuser. Roles have been instantly reversed. This is one of many reasons why all domestic calls are always so dangerous to police officers.

You can apply the Karpman triangle to many of the blue kool aid brigade who post on this site. In their hearts they know that they have been abused by MLSE. They have been lied to, taken for granted, even exploited. In confidence they can talk about their frustration and disappointment. But when an outsider (eg Dopps) intervenes to try and explain the failings of the Leafs they become overwhelmed with anxiety and come to the defense. They perceive themselves as the protector (rescuer) against your hostile behavior (abuser) that they somehow intuitively believe will cause damage to their beloved Leafs (victim).

At a deeper level we understand the emotional phenomena of this pattern is driven by the easier pathway. Simply, it is easier to be angry at the outsider or truth teller than it is to face the truth. If I allow myself to know the truth I will need to face the pain of my disappointment. So, it is easier to find someone to be angry against than it is to accept the pain of failure. So, emotionally it is easier to protect the Leafs and despise their critics rather than weep over their failings.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Apr 17 @ 8:28 AM ET
As requested.

http://coachingsupervisio...e-karpman-drama-triangle/
BashCH
Montreal Canadiens
Location: , QC
Joined: 04.27.2010

Apr 17 @ 8:49 AM ET
Is this thread redundant yet?
- TheTaoOfSemenko


It's been for a long time...now you can just call it pathetic.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Apr 17 @ 9:59 AM ET
Great explanation. Why can't someone like Feeling Glucky see this? I don't think he's stupid, so is he delusional?
- Doppleganger

I think you're the one missing the point.

Teams with owners that are unwilling to spend don't win the cup.

It's a pretty simple point. You keep making it about the Leafs, so you don't have to look at your team's shortcomings.
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 100, 101, 102, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, 108, 109, 110, 111, 112, 113, 114, 115, 116, 117, 118, 119, 120, 121, 122, 123, 124, 125, 126, 127, 128, 129, 130, 131, 132, 133, 134, 135, 136, 137, 138, 139, 140, 141, 142, 143, 144, 145, 146, 147, 148, 149, 150, 151, 152, 153, 154, 155, 156, 157, 158, 159, 160, 161, 162, 163, 164, 165, 166, 167, 168, 169, 170, 171, 172, 173, 174, 175, 176, 177, 178, 179, 180, 181, 182, 183, 184, 185, 186, 187, 188, 189, 190, 191, 192, 193, 194, 195, 196, 197, 198, 199, 200, 201, 202, 203, 204, 205, 206, 207, 208, 209, 210, 211, 212, 213, 214, 215, 216, 217, 218, 219, 220, 221, 222, 223, 224, 225, 226, 227, 228, 229, 230, 231, 232, 233, 234, 235, 236, 237, 238, 239, 240, 241, 242, 243, 244, 245, 246, 247, 248, 249, 250, 251, 252, 253, 254, 255, 256, 257, 258, 259, 260, 261, 262, 263, 264, 265, 266, 267, 268, 269, 270, 271, 272, 273, 274, 275, 276, 277, 278, 279, 280, 281, 282, 283, 284, 285, 286, 287, 288, 289, 290, 291, 292, 293, 294, 295, 296, 297, 298, 299, 300, 301, 302, 303, 304, 305, 306, 307, 308, 309, 310, 311, 312, 313, 314, 315, 316, 317, 318, 319, 320, 321, 322, 323, 324, 325, 326, 327, 328, 329, 330, 331, 332, 333, 334, 335, 336, 337, 338, 339, 340, 341, 342, 343, 344, 345, 346, 347, 348, 349, 350, 351, 352, 353, 354, 355, 356, 357, 358, 359, 360, 361, 362, 363, 364, 365, 366, 367, 368, 369, 370, 371, 372, 373, 374, 375, 376, 377, 378, 379, 380, 381, 382, 383, 384, 385, 386, 387, 388, 389, 390, 391, 392, 393, 394, 395, 396, 397, 398, 399, 400, 401, 402, 403, 404, 405, 406, 407, 408, 409, 410, 411, 412, 413, 414, 415, 416, 417, 418, 419, 420, 421, 422, 423, 424, 425, 426, 427, 428, 429, 430, 431, 432, 433, 434, 435, 436, 437, 438, 439, 440, 441, 442, 443, 444, 445, 446, 447, 448, 449, 450, 451, 452, 453, 454, 455, 456, 457, 458, 459, 460, 461, 462, 463, 464, 465, 466, 467, 468, 469, 470, 471, 472, 473, 474, 475, 476, 477, 478, 479, 480, 481, 482, 483, 484, 485, 486, 487, 488, 489, 490, 491, 492, 493, 494, 495, 496, 497, 498, 499, 500, 501, 502, 503, 504, 505, 506, 507, 508, 509, 510, 511, 512, 513, 514, 515, 516, 517, 518, 519, 520, 521, 522, 523, 524, 525, 526, 527, 528, 529, 530, 531, 532, 533, 534, 535, 536, 537, 538, 539, 540, 541, 542, 543, 544, 545, 546, 547, 548, 549, 550, 551, 552, 553, 554, 555, 556, 557, 558, 559, 560, 561, 562, 563, 564, 565, 566, 567, 568, 569, 570, 571, 572, 573, 574, 575, 576, 577, 578, 579, 580, 581, 582, 583, 584, 585, 586, 587, 588, 589, 590, 591, 592, 593, 594, 595, 596, 597, 598, 599, 600, 601, 602, 603, 604, 605, 606, 607, 608, 609, 610, 611, 612, 613, 614, 615, 616, 617, 618, 619, 620, 621, 622, 623, 624, 625, 626, 627, 628, 629, 630, 631, 632, 633, 634, 635, 636, 637, 638, 639, 640, 641, 642, 643, 644, 645, 646, 647, 648, 649, 650, 651, 652, 653, 654, 655, 656, 657, 658, 659, 660, 661, 662, 663, 664, 665, 666, 667, 668, 669, 670, 671, 672, 673, 674, 675, 676, 677, 678, 679, 680, 681, 682, 683, 684, 685, 686, 687, 688, 689, 690, 691, 692, 693, 694, 695, 696, 697, 698, 699, 700, 701, 702, 703, 704, 705, 706, 707, 708, 709, 710, 711, 712, 713, 714, 715, 716, 717, 718, 719, 720, 721, 722, 723, 724, 725, 726, 727, 728, 729, 730, 731, 732, 733, 734, 735, 736, 737, 738, 739, 740, 741, 742, 743, 744, 745, 746, 747, 748, 749, 750, 751, 752, 753, 754, 755, 756, 757, 758, 759, 760, 761, 762, 763, 764, 765, 766, 767, 768, 769, 770, 771, 772, 773, 774, 775, 776, 777, 778, 779, 780, 781, 782, 783, 784, 785, 786, 787, 788, 789, 790, 791, 792, 793, 794, 795, 796, 797, 798, 799, 800, 801, 802, 803, 804, 805, 806, 807, 808, 809, 810, 811, 812, 813, 814, 815, 816, 817, 818, 819, 820, 821, 822, 823, 824, 825, 826, 827, 828, 829, 830, 831, 832, 833, 834, 835, 836, 837, 838, 839, 840, 841, 842, 843, 844, 845, 846, 847, 848, 849, 850, 851, 852, 853, 854, 855, 856, 857, 858, 859, 860, 861, 862, 863, 864, 865, 866, 867, 868, 869, 870, 871, 872, 873, 874, 875, 876, 877, 878, 879, 880, 881, 882, 883, 884, 885, 886, 887, 888, 889, 890, 891, 892, 893, 894, 895, 896, 897, 898, 899, 900, 901, 902, 903, 904, 905, 906, 907, 908, 909, 910, 911, 912, 913, 914, 915, 916, 917, 918, 919, 920, 921, 922, 923, 924, 925, 926, 927, 928, 929, 930, 931, 932, 933, 934, 935, 936, 937, 938, 939, 940, 941, 942, 943, 944, 945, 946, 947, 948, 949, 950, 951, 952, 953, 954, 955, 956, 957, 958, 959, 960, 961, 962, 963, 964, 965, 966, 967, 968, 969, 970, 971, 972, 973, 974, 975, 976, 977, 978, 979, 980, 981, 982, 983, 984, 985, 986, 987, 988, 989, 990, 991, 992, 993, 994, 995, 996, 997, 998, 999, 1000, 1001, 1002, 1003, 1004, 1005, 1006, 1007, 1008, 1009, 1010, 1011, 1012, 1013, 1014, 1015, 1016, 1017, 1018, 1019, 1020, 1021, 1022, 1023, 1024, 1025, 1026, 1027, 1028, 1029, 1030, 1031, 1032, 1033, 1034, 1035, 1036, 1037, 1038, 1039, 1040, 1041, 1042, 1043, 1044, 1045, 1046, 1047, 1048, 1049, 1050, 1051, 1052, 1053, 1054, 1055, 1056, 1057, 1058, 1059, 1060, 1061, 1062, 1063, 1064, 1065, 1066, 1067, 1068, 1069, 1070, 1071, 1072, 1073, 1074, 1075, 1076, 1077, 1078, 1079, 1080, 1081, 1082, 1083, 1084, 1085, 1086, 1087, 1088, 1089, 1090, 1091, 1092, 1093, 1094, 1095, 1096, 1097, 1098, 1099, 1100, 1101, 1102, 1103, 1104, 1105, 1106, 1107, 1108, 1109, 1110, 1111, 1112, 1113, 1114, 1115, 1116, 1117, 1118, 1119, 1120, 1121, 1122, 1123, 1124, 1125, 1126, 1127, 1128, 1129, 1130, 1131, 1132, 1133, 1134, 1135, 1136, 1137, 1138, 1139, 1140, 1141, 1142, 1143, 1144, 1145, 1146, 1147, 1148, 1149, 1150, 1151, 1152, 1153, 1154, 1155, 1156, 1157, 1158, 1159, 1160  Next