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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
Author Message
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Apr 10 @ 9:53 AM ET
Sorry, my fault for listening to Dopps say he's got plenty of $$.

I forget how delusional he can be.

- Feeling Glucky?



Haha, top shelf was trying to say that the new regional tv deal would allow the Sens to be the highest spending team in the league.



Ticket prices would be a pretty good indication of fan base size(by way of demand for tickets), so I'd say the smallest fan base in Canada is going to have a difficult time signing a broadcast deal bigger than a team like the leafs, who actually have their own station.....
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Apr 10 @ 9:58 AM ET
Sorry, my fault for listening to Dopps say he's got plenty of $$.

I forget how delusional he can be.

- Feeling Glucky?


i think the problem is that, right now, melnyk isn't separating the team from himself, in terms of finances.

the team itself does quite well (i include the arena in that, with concerts and stuff), but melnyk's personal finances are sinking like the titanic.

travis has done some really good write-ups and research on this, but essentially what's happened is that he basically re-financed himself, through the team, to help cover some of his losses elsewhere............it's more complicated then that, but i'm not exactly a financial wizard.

the team makes money, and the new deal with TSN is ridiculous, but i think the team is paying off debts that actually had nothing to do with the team....if that makes sense.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Apr 10 @ 10:01 AM ET
i think the problem is that, right now, melnyk isn't separating the team from himself, in terms of finances.

the team itself does quite well (i include the arena in that, with concerts and stuff), but melnyk's personal finances are sinking like the titanic.

travis has done some really good write-ups and research on this, but essentially what's happened is that he basically re-financed himself, through the team, to help cover some of his losses elsewhere............it's more complicated then that, but i'm not exactly a financial wizard.

the team makes money, and the new deal with TSN is ridiculous, but i think the team is paying off debts that actually had nothing to do with the team....if that makes sense.

- sensarmy_11


The team very well may be making money but given the price of tickets I doubt they're really making much. Especially in comparison to others Canadian teams.
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Apr 10 @ 10:07 AM ET
The team very well may be making money but given the price of tickets I doubt they're really making much. Especially in comparison to others Canadian teams.
- prock


they're low relative to other canadian teams, but forbes still has them ranked as the 15th highest avg ticket price in the league (140$).

i'm not suggesting that they're making money like the leafs or habs.........but melnyk's claim that the team loses 10-15 mil per season is ridiculous.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Apr 10 @ 10:23 AM ET
they're low relative to other canadian teams, but forbes still has them ranked as the 15th highest avg ticket price in the league (140$).

i'm not suggesting that they're making money like the leafs or habs.........but melnyk's claim that the team loses 10-15 mil per season is ridiculous.

- sensarmy_11

I wouldn't be surprised at all if the team lost money paying rent to the company that owns the stadium.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Apr 10 @ 10:40 AM ET
I find it so sad, every year around this time when the leafs are days away from their annual golf tournament, that some leaf fans are so desperate to find something, anything, that they think they can hold over Senator's fans heads, as to why the leafs are better than their provincial rivals.

As always, it's the same old same old, "the leafs spend more money" or the "Senators don't spend as much money" card that get's laid on the table.


The leafs spent roughly ten Million more on their payroll than the Senators, who only sit two measly points behind the leafs (today), with both teams being eliminated mathematically from playoff contention on the same day.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Apr 10 @ 10:48 AM ET
I find it so sad, every year around this time when the leafs are days away from their annual golf tournament, that some leaf fans are so desperate to find something, anything, that they think they can hold over Senator's fans heads, as to why the leafs are better than their provincial rivals.

As always, it's the same old same old, "the leafs spend more money" or the "Senators don't spend as much money" card that get's laid on the table.


The leafs spent roughly ten Million more on their payroll than the Senators, who only sit two measly points behind the leafs (today), with both teams being eliminated mathematically from playoff contention on the same day.

- Doppleganger

I find it sad that you think facts are sad, and need to twist what people say to make yourself feel better.
Pecafan Fan
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Pacioretty, c'est mou comme d'la marde - Gilbert Delorme
Joined: 01.20.2009

Apr 10 @ 10:50 AM ET
What I find sad is that the once proud Toronto Maple Leafs franchise is now becoming less relevant than the Columbus Blue Jackets in terms of success.
the_cause2000
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Not quite my tempo
Joined: 02.26.2007

Apr 10 @ 11:05 AM ET
I find it so sad, every year around this time when the leafs are days away from their annual golf tournament, that some leaf fans are so desperate to find something, anything, that they think they can hold over Senator's fans heads, as to why the leafs are better than their provincial rivals.

As always, it's the same old same old, "the leafs spend more money" or the "Senators don't spend as much money" card that get's laid on the table.


The leafs spent roughly ten Million more on their payroll than the Senators, who only sit two measly points behind the leafs (today), with both teams being eliminated mathematically from playoff contention on the same day.

- Doppleganger


Will the Leafs win a Cup in your remaining lifetime?
Cape Breton Bruins
Boston Bruins
Location: 771 pages of no one caring, AB
Joined: 11.26.2008

Apr 10 @ 11:09 AM ET
What I find sad is that the once proud Toronto Maple Leafs franchise is now becoming less relevant than the Columbus Blue Jackets in terms of success.
- Pecafan Fan

Do you actually find it sad or are you delighted at this fact?
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Apr 10 @ 11:14 AM ET
I find it sad that you think facts are sad, and need to twist what people say to make yourself feel better.
- Feeling Glucky?




For the last ten years, the Senators have been the better team, on the ice, regular season and playoffs, than the leafs.

The leafs have spent more money, charged their fans more money to do so, and you're so happy.


I concede the leafs spend/make more money.

I'll just have to make due with the Senator's being the better "on ice" team for the past ten years.
the_cause2000
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Not quite my tempo
Joined: 02.26.2007

Apr 10 @ 11:18 AM ET
For the last ten years, the Senators have been the better team, on the ice, regular season and playoffs, than the leafs.

The leafs have spent more money, charged their fans more money to do so, and you're so happy.


I concede the leafs spend/make more money.

I'll just have to make due with the Senator's being the better "on ice" team for the past ten years.

- Doppleganger

i disagree completely
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Apr 10 @ 11:24 AM ET
i disagree completely
- the_cause2000



Disagreeing with the facts, will not change them.
Pecafan Fan
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Pacioretty, c'est mou comme d'la marde - Gilbert Delorme
Joined: 01.20.2009

Apr 10 @ 11:25 AM ET
Do you actually find it sad or are you delighted at this fact?
- Cape Breton Bruins


A little bit of both.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Apr 10 @ 11:33 AM ET
Disagreeing with the facts, will not change them.
- Doppleganger

So why do you insist?
jordan456789
Joined: 10.27.2007

Apr 10 @ 11:37 AM ET
A little bit of both.
- Pecafan Fan

With the way people like prock go on about the leafs I am loving it.
the_cause2000
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Not quite my tempo
Joined: 02.26.2007

Apr 10 @ 11:40 AM ET
Disagreeing with the facts, will not change them.
- Doppleganger

prove it
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Apr 10 @ 12:11 PM ET
they're low relative to other canadian teams, but forbes still has them ranked as the 15th highest avg ticket price in the league (140$).

i'm not suggesting that they're making money like the leafs or habs.........but melnyk's claim that the team loses 10-15 mil per season is ridiculous.

- sensarmy_11



if this is the same forbes thing that said the average ticket price for the Leafs was $350 or soemthing like that, I'm pretty sure that's the resale price, for only those tickets that end up scalped, or soemthing like that. The average ticket price for the Leafs is $122 (by face value, and what the team actually receives) or something like that, and for the Sens, it was $45 or so. The next lowest was Calgary or Edmonton I think at about $65.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Apr 10 @ 12:12 PM ET
What I find sad is that the once proud Toronto Maple Leafs franchise is now becoming less relevant than the Columbus Blue Jackets in terms of success.
- Pecafan Fan



Right, because sneaking in at 8th spot for the second time in their entire existance does that.

Idiot.
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Apr 10 @ 12:20 PM ET
prove it
- the_cause2000


i'm not trying to take sides here, but i don't think there's ANY debate in who the more successful team has been over the last 10 years:

sens - 416 wins, 8 playoff appearances, 7 series wins, 1 cup appearance

leafs - 368 wins, 3 playoff appearances, 1 series win

over the last 10 years, the sens have averaged about 15 more points per season than the leafs, and toronto has only finished ahead of ottawa in the standings 3 out of 10 years.

clearly, over the course of the two franchises, toronto has been more successful......but arguing that the leafs have been better over the last decade is ridiculous, it's not even close.
Morris
Referee
Edmonton Oilers
Location: Hall looks disengaged, NS
Joined: 07.18.2007

Apr 10 @ 12:21 PM ET
i'm not trying to take sides here, but i don't think there's ANY debate in who the more successful team has been over the last 10 years:

sens - 416 wins, 8 playoff appearances, 7 series wins, 1 cup appearance

leafs - 368 wins, 3 playoff appearances, 1 series win

over the last 10 years, the sens have averaged about 15 more points per season than the leafs, and toronto has only finished ahead of ottawa in the standings 3 out of 10 years.

clearly, over the course of the two franchises, toronto has been more successful......but arguing that the leafs have been better over the last decade is ridiculous, it's not even close.

- sensarmy_11

I think he was saying "prove that disagreeing with the facts won't change them"
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Apr 10 @ 12:21 PM ET
if this is the same forbes thing that said the average ticket price for the Leafs was $350 or soemthing like that, I'm pretty sure that's the resale price, for only those tickets that end up scalped, or soemthing like that. The average ticket price for the Leafs is $122 (by face value, and what the team actually receives) or something like that, and for the Sens, it was $45 or so. The next lowest was Calgary or Edmonton I think at about $65.
- prock


i think it's the same one, didn't see where they talked about sale vs re-sale, but you could be right.........still, i doubt the actual rankings change that much. i'm pretty confident that ottawa is right in the middle of the pack in terms of ticket price. but you are right, they're probably the lowest among canadian teams.
BingoLady
Montreal Canadiens
Location: 13-2-1, NB
Joined: 07.15.2009

Apr 10 @ 12:22 PM ET
i'm not trying to take sides here, but i don't think there's ANY debate in who the more successful team has been over the last 10 years:

sens - 416 wins, 8 playoff appearances, 7 series wins, 1 cup appearance

leafs - 368 wins, 3 playoff appearances, 1 series win

over the last 10 years, the sens have averaged about 15 more points per season than the leafs, and toronto has only finished ahead of ottawa in the standings 3 out of 10 years.

clearly, over the course of the two franchises, toronto has been more successful......but arguing that the leafs have been better over the last decade is ridiculous, it's not even close.

- sensarmy_11



Revenue and profit numbers please.
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Apr 10 @ 12:22 PM ET
I think he was saying "prove that disagreeing with the facts won't change them"

- Morris




oh..........well nevermind then.
Pecafan Fan
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Pacioretty, c'est mou comme d'la marde - Gilbert Delorme
Joined: 01.20.2009

Apr 10 @ 12:22 PM ET
Right, because sneaking in at 8th spot for the second time in their entire existance does that.

Idiot.

- prock


Unfortunately, it does.

The Leafs have been irrelevant for the last 10 years when it comes to the on ice product. Wether you accept it or not, it's a fact.


Edit: or you could say the Jackets made the playoffs twice in the last 10 years, something the Leafs haven't done. But yeah, I'm the idiot here.
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