Wanna blog? Start your own hockey blog with My HockeyBuzz. Register for free today!
 
Forums :: Blog World :: Sens Writer: Senators lose to the Sabres, Anderson wins his final NHL game
Author Message
Sens Writer
Location: Vancouver, BC
Joined: 08.19.2013

Apr 14 @ 6:16 PM ET
Sens Writer: Senators lose to the Sabres, Anderson wins his final NHL game
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Apr 14 @ 6:28 PM ET
Nice job on the Anderson comments. Well deserved!
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Apr 14 @ 6:34 PM ET
I can't work up strong feelings one way or the other on DeBrincat.

I would hate to see them lose him for nothing.

On the other hand, I would be happy if they could flip him and use the assets to acquire a power forward along the lines of a Pierre Luc Dubois or an Evander Kane or a Tom Wilson.
Sens Writer
Location: Vancouver, BC
Joined: 08.19.2013

Apr 14 @ 6:57 PM ET
I have a strange feeling you might see something along the lines of a trade with ANA for G John Gibson and a 3rd-line forward like Brock McGinn or Max Comtois.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Apr 14 @ 7:10 PM ET
I have a strange feeling you might see something along the lines of a trade with ANA for G John Gibson and a 3rd-line forward like Brock McGinn or Max Comtois.
- khawk


I don't have much confidence in Dorion's ability to trade for a goalie.
Whatisavailable
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 08.20.2021

Apr 14 @ 7:11 PM ET
I was trying to look at things from DeBrincat's point of view. Obviously I have no idea about how he or his wife feel about living in Ottawa and raising a family in Ottawa and that may be an important consideration for the player.

If he does decide to stay he knows he's not getting more money than guys like Tkachuk and Stutzle. On another team where he can be a number 1LW and play big minutes on the number 1PP I think he probably feels that he can replicate the 40+ goal seasons he has seen in the past and get 9 or 10 million.

The problem is that he will never be a number 1LW in Ottawa and although he probably will continue to see top minutes on the number 1PP it would be very difficult to reach the 40 goal mark.

If I were him I would be concerned about just taking the QO without an extension in place because that would reduce any salary demand options he would have with another team if he had just a thirty or 35 goal season happening with a terrible plus minus number.

He's not going to get 9 or 10 million in Ottawa but he might elsewhere and he and his wife might actually prefer a big US city as opposed to Ottawa. Remember Pronger.

It will be interesting to see to see how this plays out. I'm hoping Dorion can swing a trade but that's just me. I'm rooting for his wife saying "Get me back to civilization, Alex!"

A QO with a 1 year extension at 9 million. Offer him up for trade retaining 1.5 million for the 2 years. That should make him very tradeable for a good return. You get probably a 40+ goal scorer for 2 years at 7.5 million per. You find out if he's real the first year then either resign him or move him. Alex gets another 9 million dollar year at least. He goes home. Win win!
Sens Writer
Location: Vancouver, BC
Joined: 08.19.2013

Apr 14 @ 8:07 PM ET
I was trying to look at things from DeBrincat's point of view. Obviously I have no idea about how he or his wife feel about living in Ottawa and raising a family in Ottawa and that may be an important consideration for the player.

If he does decide to stay he knows he's not getting more money than guys like Tkachuk and Stutzle. On another team where he can be a number 1LW and play big minutes on the number 1PP I think he probably feels that he can replicate the 40+ goal seasons he has seen in the past and get 9 or 10 million.

The problem is that he will never be a number 1LW in Ottawa and although he probably will continue to see top minutes on the number 1PP it would be very difficult to reach the 40 goal mark.

If I were him I would be concerned about just taking the QO without an extension in place because that would reduce any salary demand options he would have with another team if he had just a thirty or 35 goal season happening with a terrible plus minus number.

He's not going to get 9 or 10 million in Ottawa but he might elsewhere and he and his wife might actually prefer a big US city as opposed to Ottawa. Remember Pronger.

It will be interesting to see to see how this plays out. I'm hoping Dorion can swing a trade but that's just me. I'm rooting for his wife saying "Get me back to civilization, Alex!"

A QO with a 1 year extension at 9 million. Offer him up for trade retaining 1.5 million for the 2 years. That should make him very tradeable for a good return. You get probably a 40+ goal scorer for 2 years at 7.5 million per. You find out if he's real the first year then either resign him or move him. Alex gets another 9 million dollar year at least. He goes home. Win win!

- Whatisavailable

I'd suggest his diminished role is perhaps the most significant factor. Even if offered a 1yr-$9M deal, it's not clear to me that he'd want to sign up for another year of playing behind Tkachuk-Stutzle-Giroux, which could significantly impact his eventual UFA negotiations if he fails to hit 30G/70Pts again. Personally, I think you'll see him turn down his QO, but request a trade to a team with a more obvious scoring line role available. That's a big reason that I mentioned ANA and the Gibson idea... it's a young team in a major American market, with a far more overt need for a high-end scoring winger. They're also currently without a single contract on the books worth more than $6.5M AAV, and have a pair of great young C in Zegras/McTavish. Seems like a potentially natural fit.
Mithos
Joined: 04.14.2021

Apr 14 @ 8:45 PM ET
I have a strange feeling you might see something along the lines of a trade with ANA for G John Gibson and a 3rd-line forward like Brock McGinn or Max Comtois.
- khawk

ya easy no on gibson, not worth a 2nd round pick right now yet alone a 40 goal scorer and has been god awfull for the last 4 years.

ANA has nothing they are willing to trade for Cat that OTT wants
Whatisavailable
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 08.20.2021

Apr 14 @ 10:47 PM ET
Trying to imagine one possible conversation.

"Hey, Alex, when I married you I was signing on to a mega star playing in a major American metropolis not some second liner eking out a nondescript career is some Canadian backwater." You tell him, Lindsey!
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Apr 15 @ 5:34 AM ET
Trying to imagine one possible conversation.

"Hey, Alex, when I married you I was signing on to a mega star playing in a major American metropolis not some second liner eking out a nondescript career is some Canadian backwater." You tell him, Lindsey!

- Whatisavailable


Nobody who is a contender has the cap space to fit in an undersized forward wanting superstar money.

I could see the Sens allowing him to talk with other teams and doing a sign and trade like Tkachuk with Calgary. But it would almost certainly necessitate the Sens having to take back a big contract or retain salary.

DeBrincat needs to be careful if he is having dreams of being the next Matthew Tkachuk. Fits more into the profile of a Johnny Gaudreau who expected big demand (Philadelphia and New Jersey) but nobody showed up for his party and he ended up signing with a last place team (Columbus).

Patrick Kane is a UFA this summer and some team might try to accelerate their rebuild by putting Kane and DeBrincat back together, but for a young team it would be a suicide move. Rebuild means moving on. (Anaheim may be an exception, they have enough young talented depth and sufficient cap space to risk a gambit by reuniting Kane and DeBrincat...but super, super risky).

From the Sens perspective, sometimes patience is the best option. Maybe Dorion asks him to sign the qualifying offer and commits to trade him at the deadline for a best return.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Apr 15 @ 6:14 AM ET
ya easy no on gibson, not worth a 2nd round pick right now yet alone a 40 goal scorer and has been god awfull for the last 4 years.

ANA has nothing they are willing to trade for Cat that OTT wants

- Mithos


I think you are right. Nobody should trust Dorion to make a trade for a goaltender.

Did not like Giroux signing. Did not like Dorion adding 2 small forwards. Turns out the Giroux signing has actually made the DeBrincat trade somewhat redundant. Will Norris coming back into the lineup make up for the loss of DeBrincat's scoring? Will Pinto score +20 again next year. Can Batherson play a better defensive game?

I don't think the Sens need to add scoring. I think they need to make themselves harder to play against on the second and third line. Nick Paul and Connor Brown (UFA @ $3.6m) would be nice additions (assuming Pierre Luc Dubois or Tom Wilson are not available to them).
HoweHatrick
Joined: 01.02.2014

Apr 15 @ 8:38 AM ET
TSN DeBrincat Story

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/ga...-moved-at-draft-1.1945897
Bartacus
Ottawa Senators
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 01.08.2019

Apr 15 @ 12:48 PM ET
Folks keep pumping Gibson's tires as an available #1, but his numbers over the past four seasons scare the bajammers outta me. We bet on Murray and he only had two bum seasons before the hire... I am not sold on that move. Garrioch has been churning out Cat moving articles the past couple days, so I guess that's a discussion. Cat really did not seem to be psyched when we acquired him - if he ain't buying in to this market, get outta dodge, move on.
Mithos
Joined: 04.14.2021

Apr 15 @ 3:18 PM ET
i think at the end of the day, dorion trading for Cat will be seen as a huge mistake unless h can get back = or more than what he trade for Cat because now OTT has to trade Cat or lose his to UFA like CGY did with Gaudreau.

Bartacus
Ottawa Senators
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 01.08.2019

Apr 15 @ 4:18 PM ET
i think at the end of the day, dorion trading for Cat will be seen as a huge mistake unless h can get back = or more than what he trade for Cat because now OTT has to trade Cat or lose his to UFA like CGY did with Gaudreau.
- Mithos


Nobody wants him to go take his arb, but that might be the best case scenario to get value out of the player. No way Dorion recoups initial cost at the upcoming draft. But if Cat takes his QO, crushes it, and you flip him at the deadline with retention, you might scratch the initial trade value. Problem is you'd have to make a better effort to get him more minutes through the season, and if we are competitive in part because of him, it's a hard sell to fans to trade away when you're going for the cup. Reality with the Ottawa market and modern players, in particular US born players, is that they often don't wanna play up here. This could very well be a situation where enough digging and homework wasn't done - in hindsight, Fiala would have been a better fit.
Whatisavailable
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 08.20.2021

Apr 15 @ 5:11 PM ET
I'd suggest his diminished role is perhaps the most significant factor. Even if offered a 1yr-$9M deal, it's not clear to me that he'd want to sign up for another year of playing behind Tkachuk-Stutzle-Giroux, which could significantly impact his eventual UFA negotiations if he fails to hit 30G/70Pts again. Personally, I think you'll see him turn down his QO, but request a trade to a team with a more obvious scoring line role available. That's a big reason that I mentioned ANA and the Gibson idea... it's a young team in a major American market, with a far more overt need for a high-end scoring winger. They're also currently without a single contract on the books worth more than $6.5M AAV, and have a pair of great young C in Zegras/McTavish. Seems like a potentially natural fit.
- khawk

You don't qualify him with the one year extension in order to play him. You're doing it so he's easier to trade especially if you are willing to retain 1.5 million for the two years. The idea is for him not to play another game in Ottawa. Gone. Gonzo. I always said he would be a problem and untraceable for anything like what was paid for him. This proposal I've made was a way to at least improve the return on a trade and who knows, maybe even make out a little bit and get someone decent to provide some depth scoring.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Apr 15 @ 6:11 PM ET
You don't qualify him with the one year extension in order to play him. You're doing it so he's easier to trade especially if you are willing to retain 1.5 million for the two years. The idea is for him not to play another game in Ottawa. Gone. Gonzo. I always said he would be a problem and untraceable for anything like what was paid for him. This proposal I've made was a way to at least improve the return on a trade and who knows, maybe even make out a little bit and get someone decent to provide some depth scoring.
- Whatisavailable


Markets make themselves. There will always be a trade option if the dollars can be worked out. Not a lot of teams who have cap space to do this kind of deal right now. Players (Gaudreau UFA) found out last summer the market is slim for undersized forwards. Not going to be easy to find the right fit for DeBrincat. Not all the pressure is on the Sens. DeBrincat's agent needs to be able to identify a team that wants him.



Mithos
Joined: 04.14.2021

Apr 15 @ 6:33 PM ET
Markets make themselves. There will always be a trade option if the dollars can be worked out. Not a lot of teams who have cap space to do this kind of deal right now. Players (Gaudreau UFA) found out last summer the market is slim for undersized forwards. Not going to be easy to find the right fit for DeBrincat. Not all the pressure is on the Sens. DeBrincat's agent needs to be able to identify a team that wants him.
- spatso



for reference see JOHN KLINGBERG and how holding out blew up in his face
HoweHatrick
Joined: 01.02.2014

Apr 15 @ 6:51 PM ET
I have mentioned it a few times, but, if a satisfactory contract cannot be negotiated, I still think the Senators will attempt to get DeBrincat for $7.25M or thereabouts through the arbitration process and look to trade him. That, or DeBrincat's agent can find a team that will be able to negotiate a deal and facilitate that trade.
Whatisavailable
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 08.20.2021

Apr 15 @ 11:32 PM ET
Markets make themselves. There will always be a trade option if the dollars can be worked out. Not a lot of teams who have cap space to do this kind of deal right now. Players (Gaudreau UFA) found out last summer the market is slim for undersized forwards. Not going to be easy to find the right fit for DeBrincat. Not all the pressure is on the Sens. DeBrincat's agent needs to be able to identify a team that wants him.
- spatso

Well it looks like the DeBrincat acquisition is just another of the many things you've gotten completely wrong. Weren't you one of the "Summer Of Pierre" guys nominating him for GM of the year?
Sens Writer
Location: Vancouver, BC
Joined: 08.19.2013

Apr 16 @ 1:15 AM ET
Markets make themselves. There will always be a trade option if the dollars can be worked out. Not a lot of teams who have cap space to do this kind of deal right now. Players (Gaudreau UFA) found out last summer the market is slim for undersized forwards. Not going to be easy to find the right fit for DeBrincat. Not all the pressure is on the Sens. DeBrincat's agent needs to be able to identify a team that wants him.
- spatso

Since when was the market slim for Gaudreau? CGY tried desperately to re-sign him, and at the very least he had major interest from teams like PHI, NJ, and NYI before signing with CBJ. And that only accounts for teams he was primarily interested in talking to, because he was trying to move to the Eastern Conference. Plus, it's nearly impossible to speculate on the cap implications of a trade before you know what the other side of the trade might look like. There's virtually no way the Senators wouldn't be taking back salary, but that's not necessarily bad so long as the players involved help address a team weakness.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Apr 16 @ 5:56 AM ET
Well it looks like the DeBrincat acquisition is just another of the many things you've gotten completely wrong. Weren't you one of the "Summer Of Pierre" guys nominating him for GM of the year?
- Whatisavailable


No I was doubtful on DeBrincat and especially nervous about Giroux.

I also opposed drafting Brady, wanted Byfield over Stutzle and thought Dorion got caught up in the hype when he bought into Sanderson's turbo charged move up in the draft selections.

But, I am sort of like the gambler getting pumped by the action. I loved the "Summer of Pierre" because the Sens were finally doing something even though I was not necessarily a huge supporter of some the individual decisions.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Apr 16 @ 6:09 AM ET
Since when was the market slim for Gaudreau? CGY tried desperately to re-sign him, and at the very least he had major interest from teams like PHI, NJ, and NYI before signing with CBJ. And that only accounts for teams he was primarily interested in talking to, because he was trying to move to the Eastern Conference. Plus, it's nearly impossible to speculate on the cap implications of a trade before you know what the other side of the trade might look like. There's virtually no way the Senators wouldn't be taking back salary, but that's not necessarily bad so long as the players involved help address a team weakness.
- khawk


I have seen several stories suggesting that Gaudreau wanted and expected to sign with an east coast team (NJ, NYI or Philadelphia). Gaudier himself has been very candid saying he wanted to sign with the Devils. For whatever reason none of those teams were the final bidder. This is what NY Post reported the day after Gaudreau signed with Columbus.

Gaudreau, a native of Salem, N.J., spurned a trio of local teams in the Devils, Islanders and Flyers to sign with the Blue Jackets. In fact, Gaudreau also took less money with Columbus; the Devils reportedly offered “well north” of $10 million in average annual value, while Gaudreau’s deal with the Blue Jackets is roughly $9.8 million per year.

Later on, reports surfaced that Gaudreau maybe did not have a hard offer on the table from the Devils. The idea he took less money to play for Columbus is probably fiction and a bit of hype to cover off the disappointment of how things finally went down.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Apr 16 @ 6:45 AM ET
for reference see JOHN KLINGBERG and how holding out blew up in his face
- Mithos


Yes, I had Klingberg in mind as well. The Sens got DeBrincat cheap relative to his goal scoring numbers of two years ago. It is not because nobody else wanted him, it is because the salary dollars that needed to be swallowed. There are so few teams able to take the cap hit (even if they want to).

DeBrincat put up decent second line numbers this year. Maybe a bit disappointing when you think he got an abundance of 1st line power play time over Giroux. Last week his agent thought he had a very strong negotiation position going forward. Today...the negotiation position might not be so strong.
Whatisavailable
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 08.20.2021

Apr 16 @ 7:00 AM ET
No I was doubtful on DeBrincat and especially nervous about Giroux.

I also opposed drafting Brady, wanted Byfield over Stutzle and thought Dorion got caught up in the hype when he bought into Sanderson's turbo charged move up in the draft selections.

But, I am sort of like the gambler getting pumped by the action. I loved the "Summer of Pierre" because the Sens were finally doing something even though I was not necessarily a huge supporter of some the individual decisions.

- spatso

What short memories we have! Not to worry you were not alone. I remember quite clearly the ridicule all you geniuses subjected me to last year when Dorion made those trades for DeBrincat and Talbot and I said they were awful trades while you were all singing Dorion's praises to the heavens.
Page: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next