Eklund: Who’s better Wednesday? In Prime:Crosby/Malkin, McDavid/Draisaitl BUZZ12:30

Any player would give up stats for Cups. MVP of Playoffs > MVP of regular season.

Plenty of time for McD to get Cups but his GM...

Skinner is no MAF. Campbell not close to a healthy Murray.

Obviously McDavid and Draisaitl are better. Not even a debate.

But Crosby/Malkin had a better supporting cast, and therefore playoff success. The biggest difference being goaltending over the years.

Casual fans and media overrate Cups. Some guys spend their career on weaker teams or run into bad luck in the playoffs. That's through no fault of their own. Shouldn't diminish their achievements. Is Marcel Dionne a loser? Iginla? Thornton? Hawerchuk? Big losers. But Patrick Maroon is a winner.

I literally disagree with everything this Muppet just said but... obviously lol.... overrating cups when it is literally all that matters. Yeah okay

It's quite simple. It's Sid and Geno until McDavid and Draisaitl win. OK cups aren't everything...and I'm not saying win 3. But go get one and let's talk.

Regarding supporting casts...they weren't viewed as great until the Pens won.

Based purely on offense, it's McDavid and Darisaitl hands down.

When you talk about all-around game, Crosby helps to narrow the gap.

And yes, Cups are all that matter, but a Stanley Cup can't be won by 1 or 2 guys alone. You need a great team, at least league average goaltending, and some good luck and health along the way.

CGY(W) @AZ Wrong
BOS (W) @ CHI Wrong
CBJ @ SAN (W) Wrong
DAL @ VAN (W) Correct
DET @ NAS (W) Correct
OTT @ EDM (W)Correct
NYI @ LAK (W)Correct
VGK (W) @ PHL Correct
MTL (W) @ PITT Correct
TB (WOT) @ NJ Wrong
WAS @ NYR (W) Correct
WIN @ CAR (W) Correct

I see you going 8-4 but you claim 6-3. 12 games last night big guy.

In terms of offense and offensive talent, it's McDavid and Draisaitl, but in terms of an all around 200ft game it's Crosby and Malkin. I think Malkin, McDavid, and Draistaitl are all relatively close in terms of their defensive shortcomings, but Crosby is BY FAR the most complete player of the four.

As a die hard Oilers fan, it took me quite a while to truly appreciate what Crosby brings to the game. I actually think there is an argument out there for Sid being the best all around player that has ever played the game. Literally everything he does is 100% peak, and if it's not he just keeps working at it until it is. McDavid seems to be starting this "mamba-like" mentality, but he's still got some work to do to get to Crosby's level of obsession.

A Sidney Crosby at his absolute prime? I think putting that guy on the Oilers this year gets them VERY close to the cup. (i.e. switching out the 2 Pens for the 2 Oilers). But it's because of Sid I say this, the other three are similar defensively, maybe Geno's a little better.

How many more points do McDavid Draisaitl have if we eliminate double counting?
Points on a line is one of the stupider metrics.

It reminds me of the time all three Stastny's were passing back and forth on an open net so they'd each get a point.
Then Ulf Samuelson tossed his stick and helmet triggering the automatic *unassisted* goal.

March 12 picks:

NAS (W) @ ANA Wrong
MIN (W) at AZ Wrong
DET (WOT) @ BOS Wrong
OTT(W) @ CGY Wrong
CAR @ NJ (WOT) Wrong
VEG (W) @ STL Correct
NYR @ PITT (WOT) Correct
WIN (W) @ TAM Correct.

Next day you claim you went 6-2, when in fact you went 3-5.

March 11 picks:

AZ @ COL (W) Wrong
NYR(W) @ BUFF Wrong
LV (W) @ CAR Correct
CHI @ TB (W) Correct
STL (WOT) @ CBJ Wrong
DAL (W) @ SEA Wrong
DET @ BOS (WOT) Wrong
EDM @ TOR (W) Correct
WIN @ FLA (WOT) Wrong
NAS (WOT) @ LAK Correct
MIN (WOT) @ SAN Wrong
NJ (W) @ MTL Correct
WAS @ NYI (W) Wrong
OTT @ VAN (W) Correct
PHL @ PIT (W) Correct

Shows to me 7-8. But you claim you went 13-2. Care to show us how you went 13-2. Your numbers are about as off as your rumors.

To the donkey that said cups are overrated…you couldn’t be more wrong. Cups are the ultimate evaluation. Winning a cup doesn’t mean the player is bad or that comparing a star player with no cup vs a 4th liner who has a cup is even remotely the same thing. This post is tough because Mcdavid is the better individual skill player. But Crosby is the better all around player. Realistically it comes down to Crosby vs Mcdavid as prime malkin and Draisitle are very similar. In the end to me it’s Crosby / malkin hands down. It’s very rare to see prime Crosby sit on the bench quietly waiting for his next shift. He was ALWAYS talking to his linemates, reviewing the iPads etc. where Mcdavid is not nearly as vocal as most want him to be. Who knows what happens behind close doors but in the heat of the moment great players can take control of their team. In regards to linemates, if you think that Crosby’s linemates of Ryan Malone, Colby Armstrong, Marian Hossa, Bill Guerin, Pascal Dupuis, Chris Kunitz and more recently, players like Patric Hornqvist, Conor Sheary and Bryan Rust. are infinitely better than mcdavids of Draisitle, RNH, kane, Hyman Kassian Yamamoto Kassian etc. then you are outside your mind. Crosby MADE those players great. Mcdavid is probably the best individual skill player in the league but he has not been able to make his team great like Crosby did. Mcdavid will go down as one of the best to play the game but history will always remeber winners. Mcdavid and Draisitle have not proven that ability yet and until they do the vote stays with Crosby and malkin.

Another factor is Malkin and Draisaitl play different positions. Makes it harder to compare. If you put Draisaitl on the wing with Crosby or Malkin their entire career what would that look like? It's all interesting baber shop talk, for sure.

Again, winning Cups and playoff MVPs (Malkin 1, Crosby 2) is all anyone should care about. We can't dismiss players who never won but again, ask anyone of those people you single out if they'd rather have less personal accolades and win a single Cup, none of them would hesitate.

Eric Lindros and John Leclair. These 4 are pansies. Wouldn’t do half of this in pre cap era.

Obviously McDavid and Draisaitl are better. Not even a debate.

But Crosby/Malkin had a better supporting cast, and therefore playoff success. The biggest difference being goaltending over the years.

Casual fans and media overrate Cups. Some guys spend their career on weaker teams or run into bad luck in the playoffs. That's through no fault of their own. Shouldn't diminish their achievements. Is Marcel Dionne a loser? Iginla? Thornton? Hawerchuk? Big losers. But Patrick Maroon is a winner.
- Cooleus

Well technically speaking Thorton, Iginla, Hawerchuk are losers. It's also very hard to talk about winning stanley cups in the salary cap era and not talk of Pat Maroon. It's just laughable that you don't understand each player plays a role, and those who get the best out of their supporting cast are often superior players.

I think right now its McDavid/Draisaitl for which tandem is just better at hockey. Comparing primes as best you can.

People also forget Sid wasn't always a great two way player either. That actually came about somewhat later in his career, after some injuries forced him to change his game a bit if I am remembering correctly.

Draisaitl is also often criminally underrated by many fans with misconceptions like he is a brutal two way player and owes every point he has to McDavid.

But they are in their prime with many more years to prove. In 5 more years will they fall off a cliff or diminish like Cro/Mal and basically be the same or worse? Who knows. We can pretend we remember exactly how good prime CroMal was but personally if you watched both close, as I did, it is still impossible to remember CroMal being near as good as McDrai.

Comparing McDrai in their prime to "old" CroMal isn't fair to the latter. There will be bias both ways and faulty memories.

Cups obviously matter but that wasnt the question. Like at all. Those saying winning cups as a team has anything to do with individual players being better are reaching.

Which player will be considered better at the end of their career. Just projecting no cups for McDrai its also obviously Cro/Mal right now.

These kinds of questions need addenda and clarifications. Off the top of my head I cant even remember if Cro/Mal cup wins coincided directly with their "PRIME" playing days.

if we are talking just talent.

McD & Dras.

hands down.

Even if McDavid and Draisaitl never win a Cup...in 50 years people will be talking about how incredible that duo was.

And in 50 years people will say that Crosby and Malkin were very good too. They led their team to some Cups. So did Kane and Toews. Yzerman and Fedorov. Matthews and Marner were pretty good. Ovechkin was a goal-scoring beast. But the only generational talent here is McDavid.

In the modern era...Orr-Gretzky-Lemiuex-McDavid. Four generational talents. Nobody else belongs in that discussion.

In the modern era...Orr-Gretzky-Lemiuex-McDavid. Four generational talents. Nobody else belongs in that discussion.
- Cooleus

I'd consider Lidstrom on that list up there but I disagree with the assessment. Crosby was just as much a "wow, he's the generational talent" player as McDavid. Every player said it. Cups, Olympic gold medals, he's the consummate "complete" player and a hard one to chase. I'm a broken record here but in 2017 both of them won an MVP award. Which was the won who was best for the year? Also, none of the other 3 will catch Malkin in dumb penalties taken at the worst time, so he's got that wrapped up with a bow.

It's McDavid's time. Hope he wins a Cup but he'll never be ranked higher than Crosby in top players of all time.

Fun fact: Leon is 10th over in goals per 60 for active players and barely, just barely ahead of Jake Guentzel. I didn't not think that was the case. Also, Matthews leads the category over Ovie (though younger so his average will fall over time).

The woke people once again win in the QMJHL. What a joke of a league.

It’s not productive to call someone a muppet or a donkey for having an opinion. The Cups are overrated comment has context. The context is when you compare two players vs two players the comparison becomes more complex and convoluted when you bring Cups won into the equation.

I’m not saying it doesn’t matter but it shouldn’t trump everything else. Edmonton hasn’t had good roster construction during the McDavid era and the Pens did much better with that in winning Cups. You can say Crosby is better than McDavid at making the players around him better. But when you win a Cup you have players with character and buy in in addition to great roster construction. Edmonton hasn’t had all that.

I think right now its McDavid/Draisaitl for which tandem is just better at hockey. Comparing primes as best you can.

People also forget Sid wasn't always a great two way player either. That actually came about somewhat later in his career, after some injuries forced him to change his game a bit if I am remembering correctly.

Draisaitl is also often criminally underrated by many fans with misconceptions like he is a brutal two way player and owes every point he has to McDavid.

But they are in their prime with many more years to prove. In 5 more years will they fall off a cliff or diminish like Cro/Mal and basically be the same or worse? Who knows. We can pretend we remember exactly how good prime CroMal was but personally if you watched both close, as I did, it is still impossible to remember CroMal being near as good as McDrai.

Comparing McDrai in their prime to "old" CroMal isn't fair to the latter. There will be bias both ways and faulty memories.

Cups obviously matter but that wasnt the question. Like at all. Those saying winning cups as a team has anything to do with individual players being better are reaching.

Which player will be considered better at the end of their career. Just projecting no cups for McDrai its also obviously Cro/Mal right now.

These kinds of questions need addenda and clarifications. Off the top of my head I cant even remember if Cro/Mal cup wins coincided directly with their "PRIME" playing days.
- Aerchon

You have some questionable memory. PIT won the SCs in 2009, 2016, and 2017. Crosby and Malkin were BY FAR the best center duo every one of those years. In fact, center depth was arguably #1 reason they won back to back SCs (Crosby, Malkin, Bonino, Cullen). Even now Crosby is at worst a top 5 center and Malkin is still a top 20 center. I agree EDM duo is offensively superior, but they are playing on the same line so that's not fair comparison.

You have some questionable memory. PIT won the SCs in 2009, 2016, and 2017. Crosby and Malkin were BY FAR the best center duo every one of those years. In fact, center depth was arguably #1 reason they won back to back SCs (Crosby, Malkin, Bonino, Cullen). Even now Crosby is at worst a top 5 center and Malkin is still a top 20 center. I agree EDM duo is offensively superior, but they are playing on the same line so that's not fair comparison.
- jfkst1

They often don't play on the same line. So that suggests you haven't watched too often...

They often don't play on the same line. So that suggests you haven't watched too often...
- Cooleus

McDavid and Draisaitl have played over 35% of ES this season together. Crosby and Malkin haven't been together for any substantial ES time since Bylsma in 2014 which was still only about 5% ES time.
https://frozenpool.dobber...9&period=ALL&situation=EV

In regards to linemates, if you think that Crosby’s linemates of Ryan Malone, Colby Armstrong, Marian Hossa, Bill Guerin, Pascal Dupuis, Chris Kunitz and more recently, players like Patric Hornqvist, Conor Sheary and Bryan Rust. are infinitely better than mcdavids of Draisitle, RNH, kane, Hyman Kassian Yamamoto Kassian etc. then you are outside your mind. Crosby MADE those players great.
- kresco

Yes, Marian Hossa clearly sucked before he got to play with Crosby.

Really dude??? Guy was a stud at both ends of the ice way before he went to Pittsburgh.