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Forums :: Blog World :: Mike Augello: Leafs Top-40 Prospect List - #7
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Mike Augello
Commissioner
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Buffalo, NY
Joined: 06.25.2006

Sep 12 @ 12:49 PM ET
Mike Augello: Leafs Top-40 Prospect List - #7
nbboy
Toronto Maple Leafs
Joined: 07.05.2010

Sep 12 @ 12:55 PM ET
đź‘Ť
mr.sir
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Vancouver Island, BC
Joined: 01.18.2015

Sep 12 @ 12:55 PM ET
Dubois 🥊
Monkeypunk
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Whenever, wherever, ON
Joined: 06.27.2013

Sep 12 @ 12:55 PM ET


I swear Mike waits until I'm posting to put up a new blog. Since I typed it, I'll move it here:

Liljegren over Sandin all day, every day.
- GreatGigInTheSky


I believe strongly that a young defenseman will prosper when paired with a stabilizing partner. When Muzzin was healthy, it benefitted Holl to the point where he has been considered a legitimate top-4 option. When Muzzin was healthy, Holl was. When Muzzin was not able to lead that pairing or faltered in his play, Holl was not sufficient enough to compensate for those failings and was, as expected, exposed.

In this past season, Liljegren and Sandin paired together relatively effectively. They had an xG% of 65% and were +5 in 242 minutes of ice together.

Sandin was also paired with Dermott (218 minutes; +4) and Holl (132 minutes; +4).

Liljegren was paired with Giordano (181 minutes; +4), Rielly (145 minutes; +4), Muzzin (119 minutes; even) and Dermott (119 minutes; +1)

It wasn't until Liljegren was paired with Giordano that he really started to accelerate his game and improve his play. He is a year older, but had more development time because there was no real push to accelerate his development.

BTW, for the above, I excluded any pairings that played less than 60 minutes together - so Sandin's poor showing with Rielly or his flailing right-side experiments weren't considered.

My point here is that I don't think it's as simple as "Liljegren over Sandin all day every day". I think Sandin will likely be better than Liljegren, but he needs the opportunity and the partner to help him do so.


Symba007
Montreal Canadiens
Location: You are all perennial cynical sissies , ON
Joined: 02.26.2007

Sep 12 @ 12:56 PM ET
Scabeh
Montreal Canadiens
Location: The Slovakian Jagr, QC
Joined: 02.25.2007

Sep 12 @ 1:07 PM ET
I swear Mike waits until I'm posting to put up a new blog. Since I typed it, I'll move it here:



I believe strongly that a young defenseman will prosper when paired with a stabilizing partner. When Muzzin was healthy, it benefitted Holl to the point where he has been considered a legitimate top-4 option. When Muzzin was healthy, Holl was. When Muzzin was not able to lead that pairing or faltered in his play, Holl was not sufficient enough to compensate for those failings and was, as expected, exposed.

In this past season, Liljegren and Sandin paired together relatively effectively. They had an xG% of 65% and were +5 in 242 minutes of ice together.

Sandin was also paired with Dermott (218 minutes; +4) and Holl (132 minutes; +4).

Liljegren was paired with Giordano (181 minutes; +4), Rielly (145 minutes; +4), Muzzin (119 minutes; even) and Dermott (119 minutes; +1)

It wasn't until Liljegren was paired with Giordano that he really started to accelerate his game and improve his play. He is a year older, but had more development time because there was no real push to accelerate his development.

BTW, for the above, I excluded any pairings that played less than 60 minutes together - so Sandin's poor showing with Rielly or his flailing right-side experiments weren't considered.

My point here is that I don't think it's as simple as "Liljegren over Sandin all day every day". I think Sandin will likely be better than Liljegren, but he needs the opportunity and the partner to help him do so.

- Monkeypunk


Excellent blog Monkey.
Canada Cup
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: “Give me Point, Cirelli and Paul all day against anybody.” Mr. Cooper , ON
Joined: 07.06.2007

Sep 12 @ 1:09 PM ET
I swear Mike waits until I'm posting to put up a new blog. Since I typed it, I'll move it here:



I believe strongly that a young defenseman will prosper when paired with a stabilizing partner. When Muzzin was healthy, it benefitted Holl to the point where he has been considered a legitimate top-4 option. When Muzzin was healthy, Holl was. When Muzzin was not able to lead that pairing or faltered in his play, Holl was not sufficient enough to compensate for those failings and was, as expected, exposed.

In this past season, Liljegren and Sandin paired together relatively effectively. They had an xG% of 65% and were +5 in 242 minutes of ice together.

Sandin was also paired with Dermott (218 minutes; +4) and Holl (132 minutes; +4).

Liljegren was paired with Giordano (181 minutes; +4), Rielly (145 minutes; +4), Muzzin (119 minutes; even) and Dermott (119 minutes; +1)

It wasn't until Liljegren was paired with Giordano that he really started to accelerate his game and improve his play. He is a year older, but had more development time because there was no real push to accelerate his development.

BTW, for the above, I excluded any pairings that played less than 60 minutes together - so Sandin's poor showing with Rielly or his flailing right-side experiments weren't considered.

My point here is that I don't think it's as simple as "Liljegren over Sandin all day every day". I think Sandin will likely be better than Liljegren, but he needs the opportunity and the partner to help him do so.

- Monkeypunk


Agree with this and think that Sandin-Lilligren will be a great pairing in the Leaf’s future.
The Law
Toronto Maple Leafs
Joined: 01.29.2008

Sep 12 @ 1:10 PM ET
I swear Mike waits until I'm posting to put up a new blog. Since I typed it, I'll move it here:



I believe strongly that a young defenseman will prosper when paired with a stabilizing partner. When Muzzin was healthy, it benefitted Holl to the point where he has been considered a legitimate top-4 option. When Muzzin was healthy, Holl was. When Muzzin was not able to lead that pairing or faltered in his play, Holl was not sufficient enough to compensate for those failings and was, as expected, exposed.

In this past season, Liljegren and Sandin paired together relatively effectively. They had an xG% of 65% and were +5 in 242 minutes of ice together.

Sandin was also paired with Dermott (218 minutes; +4) and Holl (132 minutes; +4).

Liljegren was paired with Giordano (181 minutes; +4), Rielly (145 minutes; +4), Muzzin (119 minutes; even) and Dermott (119 minutes; +1)

It wasn't until Liljegren was paired with Giordano that he really started to accelerate his game and improve his play. He is a year older, but had more development time because there was no real push to accelerate his development.

BTW, for the above, I excluded any pairings that played less than 60 minutes together - so Sandin's poor showing with Rielly or his flailing right-side experiments weren't considered.

My point here is that I don't think it's as simple as "Liljegren over Sandin all day every day". I think Sandin will likely be better than Liljegren, but he needs the opportunity and the partner to help him do so.

- Monkeypunk


Personally, I like Sandin. Very good offensive instincts and some feistiness beyond his size. He needs a good development year or two to improve his D-zone and then I think he can be a really good top 4 guy.
dozerD10
Anaheim Ducks
Location: long beach, CA
Joined: 01.29.2014

Sep 12 @ 1:24 PM ET
A mini Koivu... perhaps...
Scabeh
Montreal Canadiens
Location: The Slovakian Jagr, QC
Joined: 02.25.2007

Sep 12 @ 1:27 PM ET
A mini Koivu... perhaps...
- dozerD10


A mini Mikko or a mini Saku?
Atomic Wedgie
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: The centre of the hockey universe
Joined: 07.31.2006

Sep 12 @ 1:28 PM ET
Excellent blog Monkey.
- Scabeh

It reads like a Whitney Houston song.

It's that beautiful.
Adam French
Atlanta Thrashers
Location: Isn't Cooley 5"11? You know who else is 5"11? Sydney Crosby. - Scabeh
Joined: 04.06.2011

Sep 12 @ 1:31 PM ET
A mini Mikko or a mini Saku?
- Scabeh

Karri
PatC80
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: I would never let my children play hockey. The risk of getting drafted by Edmonton is too high", ON
Joined: 08.11.2011

Sep 12 @ 1:48 PM ET
I swear Mike waits until I'm posting to put up a new blog. Since I typed it, I'll move it here:



I believe strongly that a young defenseman will prosper when paired with a stabilizing partner. When Muzzin was healthy, it benefitted Holl to the point where he has been considered a legitimate top-4 option. When Muzzin was healthy, Holl was. When Muzzin was not able to lead that pairing or faltered in his play, Holl was not sufficient enough to compensate for those failings and was, as expected, exposed.

In this past season, Liljegren and Sandin paired together relatively effectively. They had an xG% of 65% and were +5 in 242 minutes of ice together.

Sandin was also paired with Dermott (218 minutes; +4) and Holl (132 minutes; +4).

Liljegren was paired with Giordano (181 minutes; +4), Rielly (145 minutes; +4), Muzzin (119 minutes; even) and Dermott (119 minutes; +1)

It wasn't until Liljegren was paired with Giordano that he really started to accelerate his game and improve his play. He is a year older, but had more development time because there was no real push to accelerate his development.

BTW, for the above, I excluded any pairings that played less than 60 minutes together - so Sandin's poor showing with Rielly or his flailing right-side experiments weren't considered.

My point here is that I don't think it's as simple as "Liljegren over Sandin all day every day". I think Sandin will likely be better than Liljegren, but he needs the opportunity and the partner to help him do so.

- Monkeypunk


I don't disagree, but I think it's a bit unfair to Liljegren.. The kid has done everything the team has asked him to do, and hasn't complained (at least not publicly). Sandin hasn't earned anything yet.. Also, the make up the team as it stands shows that Liljegren is needed more than Sandin is at this time..

Leafs have a logjam at LD, can't say the same for RD.. Sandin should wait for his chance, or gtfo.. Muzzin is bound to get injured in the preseason and miss a portion of the regular season..

Rielly, Muzzin and Giordano are still ahead of Sandin on the depth chart, so if he wants to be a Leaf, then he's got to wait and earn it.
Fakepartofme
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Living rent free... in your head, ON
Joined: 09.20.2010

Sep 12 @ 2:06 PM ET
I swear Mike waits until I'm posting to put up a new blog. Since I typed it, I'll move it here:



I believe strongly that a young defenseman will prosper when paired with a stabilizing partner. When Muzzin was healthy, it benefitted Holl to the point where he has been considered a legitimate top-4 option. When Muzzin was healthy, Holl was. When Muzzin was not able to lead that pairing or faltered in his play, Holl was not sufficient enough to compensate for those failings and was, as expected, exposed.

In this past season, Liljegren and Sandin paired together relatively effectively. They had an xG% of 65% and were +5 in 242 minutes of ice together.

Sandin was also paired with Dermott (218 minutes; +4) and Holl (132 minutes; +4).

Liljegren was paired with Giordano (181 minutes; +4), Rielly (145 minutes; +4), Muzzin (119 minutes; even) and Dermott (119 minutes; +1)

It wasn't until Liljegren was paired with Giordano that he really started to accelerate his game and improve his play. He is a year older, but had more development time because there was no real push to accelerate his development.

BTW, for the above, I excluded any pairings that played less than 60 minutes together - so Sandin's poor showing with Rielly or his flailing right-side experiments weren't considered.

My point here is that I don't think it's as simple as "Liljegren over Sandin all day every day". I think Sandin will likely be better than Liljegren, but he needs the opportunity and the partner to help him do so.

- Monkeypunk

So basically....trade holl.
Agreed
Monkeypunk
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Whenever, wherever, ON
Joined: 06.27.2013

Sep 12 @ 2:17 PM ET
I don't disagree, but I think it's a bit unfair to Liljegren.. The kid has done everything the team has asked him to do, and hasn't complained (at least not publicly). Sandin hasn't earned anything yet.. Also, the make up the team as it stands shows that Liljegren is needed more than Sandin is at this time..

Leafs have a logjam at LD, can't say the same for RD.. Sandin should wait for his chance, or gtfo.. Muzzin is bound to get injured in the preseason and miss a portion of the regular season..

Rielly, Muzzin and Giordano are still ahead of Sandin on the depth chart, so if he wants to be a Leaf, then he's got to wait and earn it.

- PatC80


That changes tack a bit. Is Liljegren likely a better team player? It would appear so.

In terms of their play, they're both mobile, they're both good passers. I think Sandin has better offensive instincts, and I think Liljegren has better defensive instincts. If you go back about 6 years and look at what they were projected to be, before he came to North American, I believe Sandin was projected as more of a stay-at-home guy, with a great initial pass. Liljegren was considered as someone who might be Erik Karlsson-lite - which in 2015 or 2016 wasn't a bad path to be walking at all.

So that implies that for Liljegren those offensive instincts are there, and for Sandin the defensive instincts are there. For both of them they may not be done rounding out their NHL games.
Monkeypunk
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Whenever, wherever, ON
Joined: 06.27.2013

Sep 12 @ 2:19 PM ET
So basically....trade holl.
Agreed

- Fakepartofme


Trade. Waive. Bludgeon. Go back in time and leave him exposed in the expansion draft. Keep McCann. Trade Kerfoot.

All good options, but I'm strongly leaning towards 'bludgeon'.
BINGO!
Carolina Hurricanes
Location: I'll always remember the last words my grandfather ever told me. He said, "A Truck!", SK
Joined: 09.21.2009

Sep 12 @ 2:21 PM ET
Agree with this and think that Sandin-Lilligren will be a great pairing in the Leaf’s future.
- Canada Cup


Have you considered playing defensemen before they turn 26 years old
Canada Cup
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: “Give me Point, Cirelli and Paul all day against anybody.” Mr. Cooper , ON
Joined: 07.06.2007

Sep 12 @ 2:28 PM ET
Have you considered playing defensemen before they turn 26 years old
- BINGO!

Can’t help it that Max brought Muzzin back from the dead. Also, Lidstrom didn’t get into the Wings lineup until he was about 35 so Sandin will be just as good. That’s just the way these things work
bixll
Location: New Glasgow, NS
Joined: 09.04.2008

Sep 12 @ 2:31 PM ET
Sandin is going to be a good player, he is too slow to be a great player these days. Just the way it is with the speed of the game. No matter how skilled, if you are a slow skater, you will not be an NHL#1 D man.

Just my opinion.
PatC80
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: I would never let my children play hockey. The risk of getting drafted by Edmonton is too high", ON
Joined: 08.11.2011

Sep 12 @ 2:33 PM ET
That changes tack a bit. Is Liljegren likely a better team player? It would appear so.

In terms of their play, they're both mobile, they're both good passers. I think Sandin has better offensive instincts, and I think Liljegren has better defensive instincts. If you go back about 6 years and look at what they were projected to be, before he came to North American, I believe Sandin was projected as more of a stay-at-home guy, with a great initial pass. Liljegren was considered as someone who might be Erik Karlsson-lite - which in 2015 or 2016 wasn't a bad path to be walking at all.

So that implies that for Liljegren those offensive instincts are there, and for Sandin the defensive instincts are there. For both of them they may not be done rounding out their NHL games.

- Monkeypunk



That's fair, I think they both have more to give and we haven't seen the best of either of them... At this time though, I think Lily has more value to the Leafs.. I do hope that Sandin remains a Leaf as he does have a lot of potential just wish he wasn't holding out
bixll
Location: New Glasgow, NS
Joined: 09.04.2008

Sep 12 @ 2:34 PM ET
Can’t help it that Max brought Muzzin back from the dead. Also, Lidstrom didn’t get into the Wings lineup until he was about 35 so Sandin will be just as good. That’s just the way these things work
- Canada Cup



Lidstrom played 80 games his rookie year and scored 60 pts, FYI.

Played 84 games, each of his next 2 years.
BINGO!
Carolina Hurricanes
Location: I'll always remember the last words my grandfather ever told me. He said, "A Truck!", SK
Joined: 09.21.2009

Sep 12 @ 2:35 PM ET
Lidstrom played 80 games his rookie year and scored 60 pts, FYI.
- bixll


He was 34 years old in his rookie year.
bixll
Location: New Glasgow, NS
Joined: 09.04.2008

Sep 12 @ 2:36 PM ET
He was 34 years old in his rookie year.
- BINGO!

BINGO!
Carolina Hurricanes
Location: I'll always remember the last words my grandfather ever told me. He said, "A Truck!", SK
Joined: 09.21.2009

Sep 12 @ 2:37 PM ET

- bixll


Look at him. That man has been in his 30's since he was 8.
bixll
Location: New Glasgow, NS
Joined: 09.04.2008

Sep 12 @ 2:38 PM ET
Look at him. That man has been in his 30's since he was 8.
- BINGO!



He played 20 years in the NHL... You would look old too.... You do... look at your avatar, your eyes are hanging out of your head. Get some rest.
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