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Forums :: Blog World :: Theo Fox: Bang & Blame
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Theo Fox
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 06.18.2016

Oct 26 @ 3:37 AM ET
Theo Fox: Bang & Blame Thoughts on the Blackhawks blame game and who needs to fix what's ailing them.

Plus, a look at the 4th line with Mike Hardman cleared to play and a look at what prospects like 2021 7th rounder Jalen Luypen can be for teams.
35Tony0
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Springfield, IL
Joined: 05.10.2015

Oct 26 @ 5:36 AM ET
Hardman, Entwistle and Johnson on a 4th line is definitely worth a look.
If the Blackhawks are to improve long term, the farm team must bear fruit and some prospects must far exceed expectations.
CTblackhawkfan
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Hamden, CT
Joined: 06.14.2013

Oct 26 @ 7:25 AM ET
Would like to see that 4th line and let them stay together for 10 games and I would bet the growth of all 3 would show as long as he keeps them together! Size, speed , grit and toughness!!
powerenforcer
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Wheeling, IL
Joined: 09.24.2009

Oct 26 @ 8:08 AM ET
I wonder if Toews is the cancer in the room. I hate to say that, but he is one player that was not on the roster last season. (I am basing this on the "It's a locker room issue" comment).
DarthKane
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: 5.13.4.9
Joined: 02.23.2012

Oct 26 @ 8:18 AM ET
I wonder if Toews is the cancer in the room. I hate to say that, but he is one player that was not on the roster last season. (I am basing this on the "It's a locker room issue" comment).
- powerenforcer



I think it’s Fleury, he’s been notorious throughout his career as a negative locker room presence.
HawkintheD
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Sick Bay, MI
Joined: 02.22.2012

Oct 26 @ 8:19 AM ET
There is A LOT of debate on what true role Bowman had on the Cup teams. He certainly made a couple decent moves, but the franchise was pretty much built for him. SO debates will go on forever.

What can NOT be debated is the current state of affairs, 7 years since last Cup run and the team appears to have no true direction on focus and now looks like the worst team in the NHL.

We can debate pre 2015 to death and back, but given there are literally TWO players remaining from those teams, there is no debate about the current on ice product. It's totally Bowman's team. I know his friends and family will say he was the reason for those Cups while peddling nonsensical excuses for the present dumpster fire, but no one seriously should listen to that crap as it's the musing of apologists who have some weird loyalty to the MBA baby who was gifted a team ro "run" because his daddy was Scotty.
- kwolf68

NO. It cannot be debated on whether or not Bowman had an impact on the cup dynasty. He did...it's not up for debate. He made more than a "couple of moves". He turned that franchise around after it was decimated in 2010...for not just one but two more cups...and should've been a third. You can't crap on him for the current situation and not give him due credit for what he did for 2013-2015 teams. If you did that you'd be talking out both sides of your mouth.
- NamedSources


From last night...Thanks Source. Great post...all of it, but particularly the bolded. There are some posters that never liked ole' Stanbo, which is fine but at least be honest about it, instead of hanging onto some silly narrative that he contributed little to nothing to the team's success for the two Cups post 2010.

I didn't realize giving credit where it was due makes you an apologist but ok.

Have said for a while now that it might be time for a fresh set of eyes in the GM role. Hopefully, unlike the McCaskey's, whenever that time comes, the Wirtz's get it right.
pdx2ord
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Portland, OR
Joined: 09.02.2015

Oct 26 @ 8:36 AM ET
Around 24 min in, Kaplan gives a bit more on the Hawks GM/Coach dynamic

https://podcasts.apple.co...586209917?i=1000539704962

In short, JC is Stan's guy, Stan loves JC and if he has to get another coach, he'll go after another JC. But, Stan recognizes that he probably won't be the one making that choice.

She also mentions just before that that many flailing teams are going to be holding onto coaches longer than usual this year for $$$ reasons.

I didn't realize the players had held a closed door. Good and bad sign. Let's hope good comes from it.
HawkintheD
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Sick Bay, MI
Joined: 02.22.2012

Oct 26 @ 8:36 AM ET
Great blog Theo!

Something's gotta change. I don't know if a closed door meeting is enough to right the ship but it's potentially a step in the right direction.

Who knows if it will lead to any execution on ice. You bring up some great points about coaches and players holding each other accountable and so far that doesn't seem to be part of the culture.

Also thank you for introducing me to the word "pedagogy" and using it not once but twice in the same blog.
scottak
Location: I am serious. And don't call me Shirley!
Joined: 08.06.2010

Oct 26 @ 8:46 AM ET
I may have missed it in the blog, as I skimmed it, but reports are JC held a bag skate yesterday. So I guess he’s moving from ‘communicator’ to ‘hard ass’.

Good to see Florida one of the 4 teams still undefeated.

Would you feel more confident about the future if the Blackhawks were still coached by the 2nd winningest head coach in the history of the NHL?
scottak
Location: I am serious. And don't call me Shirley!
Joined: 08.06.2010

Oct 26 @ 8:51 AM ET
On Luypen, I seem to remember the ‘experts’ said DCat was too small and wouldn’t light up the NHL like he did Juniors.
StLBravesFan
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 07.03.2011

Oct 26 @ 9:00 AM ET
I may have missed it in the blog, as I skimmed it, but reports are JC held a bag skate yesterday. So I guess he’s moving from ‘communicator’ to ‘hard ass’.

Good to see Florida one of the 4 teams still undefeated.

Would you feel more confident about the future if the Blackhawks were still coached by the 2nd winningest head coach in the history of the NHL?

- scottak

There are GMs who can take a team with a given core and tinker at the edges to turn it into (or maintain it as) a championship team. There are GMs who can take a team with nothing and build it basically from scratch into a championship team. Stan has proven he can do the formet; he has not proven able to do the latter (actually, is in the process of proving that he can’t).

There are coaches who can take young potential talent and develop it into actual talent. There are coaches who can take a talented, developed team and take it the next step or two to get to championships. Different coaching skills required. Phil Jackson and Joel Quenneville proved (and, in Sunrise, may still be proving) to be great at the latter, but not at the former.

Q probably was probably not right for the team the Blackhawks became; Stan is probably not right for rebuilding the team as it is now.
mohel
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 02.08.2013

Oct 26 @ 9:16 AM ET
Great blog Theo!

Something's gotta change. I don't know if a closed door meeting is enough to right the ship but it's potentially a step in the right direction.

Who knows if it will lead to any execution on ice. You bring up some great points about coaches and players holding each other accountable and so far that doesn't seem to be part of the culture.

Also thank you for introducing me to the word "pedagogy" and using it not once but twice in the same blog.

- HawkintheD


I know things are tough, D, but isn't this a bit harsh, even for a hot head like you?
jfkst1
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Clackety Clack
Joined: 02.09.2015

Oct 26 @ 9:59 AM ET
There are GMs who can take a team with a given core and tinker at the edges to turn it into (or maintain it as) a championship team. There are GMs who can take a team with nothing and build it basically from scratch into a championship team. Stan has proven he can do the formet; he has not proven able to do the latter (actually, is in the process of proving that he can’t).

There are coaches who can take young potential talent and develop it into actual talent. There are coaches who can take a talented, developed team and take it the next step or two to get to championships. Different coaching skills required. Phil Jackson and Joel Quenneville proved (and, in Sunrise, may still be proving) to be great at the latter, but not at the former.

Q probably was probably not right for the team the Blackhawks became; Stan is probably not right for rebuilding the team as it is now.

- StLBravesFan


There are also circumstances where ownership doesn't want to rebuild fully and/or rushes the processes (i.e.; Francis, Hextall, Gorton). Bowman might be aware that the team needs a rebuild but also that it would cost him his job. Ultimately those teams end up just prolonging the process.
kwolf68
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Mt. Lebanon, PA
Joined: 12.18.2010

Oct 26 @ 9:59 AM ET
I think it’s Fleury, he’s been notorious throughout his career as a negative locker room presence.


What?
scottak
Location: I am serious. And don't call me Shirley!
Joined: 08.06.2010

Oct 26 @ 10:04 AM ET
There are GMs who can take a team with a given core and tinker at the edges to turn it into (or maintain it as) a championship team. There are GMs who can take a team with nothing and build it basically from scratch into a championship team. Stan has proven he can do the formet; he has not proven able to do the latter (actually, is in the process of proving that he can’t).

There are coaches who can take young potential talent and develop it into actual talent. There are coaches who can take a talented, developed team and take it the next step or two to get to championships. Different coaching skills required. Phil Jackson and Joel Quenneville proved (and, in Sunrise, may still be proving) to be great at the latter, but not at the former.

Q probably was probably not right for the team the Blackhawks became; Stan is probably not right for rebuilding the team as it is now.

- StLBravesFan

While I understand what you're saying, I'm not sure I agree. Q developed plenty of young players while with the Blackhawks. Saad, Krueger, TT, Bickell, Shaw, Versteeg, Hjalmarsson. I'm sure there are others I'm forgetting.
mohel
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 02.08.2013

Oct 26 @ 10:06 AM ET
What?
- kwolf68


Take the sarcasm detector in for a tune up.
rpeters01
Season Ticket Holder
Joined: 07.09.2016

Oct 26 @ 10:19 AM ET
I think it’s Fleury, he’s been notorious throughout his career as a negative locker room presence.
- DarthKane

Obviously, they're missing Delia's chemistry in the locker room. It's a locker room problem.
rpeters01
Season Ticket Holder
Joined: 07.09.2016

Oct 26 @ 10:21 AM ET
Around 24 min in, Kaplan gives a bit more on the Hawks GM/Coach dynamic

https://podcasts.apple.co...586209917?i=1000539704962

In short, JC is Stan's guy, Stan loves JC and if he has to get another coach, he'll go after another JC. But, Stan recognizes that he probably won't be the one making that choice.

She also mentions just before that that many flailing teams are going to be holding onto coaches longer than usual this year for $$$ reasons.

I didn't realize the players had held a closed door. Good and bad sign. Let's hope good comes from it.

- pdx2ord

As the President of "Hockey Opps" this I don't believe. Everyone knew JC was a young coach and may only be the guy to get them from "point A to point B" when he was hired.
mohel
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 02.08.2013

Oct 26 @ 10:24 AM ET
While I understand what you're saying, I'm not sure I agree. Q developed plenty of young players while with the Blackhawks. Saad, Krueger, TT, Bickell, Shaw, Versteeg, Hjalmarsson. I'm sure there are others I'm forgetting.
- scottak


Also, imo, the "Maintainer v. Builder" debate is overblown. Both of them need to identify, acquire and develop talent; and both need to maximize assets wherever possible. Oh, and they both need luck. Luck that the couple shots at high draft picks aren't busts. Luck such as St. Louis choosing Erik Johnson instead of Toews. Luck such as Kane not doing something worse in his wild days. Luck such as no team choosing Keith before the Hawks got him at 54th.
GreenJeans
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Rural, WI
Joined: 06.29.2016

Oct 26 @ 10:26 AM ET
At this point I hope the players only meeting was for them to pick their own lines and pairings and present them to JC with a "Here's what we're gonna do."
They'll string together some wins, JC will get some attaboys, and the players will get their mojo back.
And I wrote this with my brand new rose tinted glasses on. Smashed the pair I had to start the season.
StLBravesFan
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 07.03.2011

Oct 26 @ 10:30 AM ET
While I understand what you're saying, I'm not sure I agree. Q developed plenty of young players while with the Blackhawks. Saad, Krueger, TT, Bickell, Shaw, Versteeg, Hjalmarsson. I'm sure there are others I'm forgetting.
- scottak

But he did it in the context of having a veteran championship core that was ready to win and that he could take to the next step(s) - he wouldn’t have had that with today’s Blackhawks.

I did not mean to say or imply that “Q wouldn’t play young skaters” - only that he has not proven able to take a “new” team and develop it as a team into championship status. They are two different skills - Phil Jackson did great with a team that started him out with Jordan, Pippen, Grant….he also did great with LA and Kobe, O’Neil, Salley…
mohel
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 02.08.2013

Oct 26 @ 10:36 AM ET
As the President of "Hockey Opps" this I don't believe. Everyone knew JC was a young coach and may only be the guy to get them from "point A to point B" when he was hired.
- rpeters01


This is another example where knowledge of all the goings on within the front office makes all the difference. If Stan was told to hire a cheap developmental coach for the rebuild and then ownership halted the rebuild, Stan looks different than if they told him not to count on a long term rebuild and to replace Q with a long term answer. To complicate matters, McD was the one communicating with Stan at that time.
Mr Ricochet
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Joliet, IL
Joined: 04.19.2009

Oct 26 @ 10:49 AM ET
This is a blog that matters, all that really matters concerning the organIzation. Each and every one of Theo's blogs, or any Hawk's blog really, ends up with hundreds of posts arguing the mess (not a new mess a 5-6 yr mess) is Stan's fault, Colliton's fault, the system's fault, the player's fault and a few who blame Rocky.

An objective view can reasonably argue any of these reasons in whole or part. But who is in charge of unraveling this 5-6 yr riddle? Looking at it clear eyed from 30,000 feet?

IMO it's reasonable to think that anyone involved INSIDE the organIzation, as the riddle compounds itself yr after yr, can not unravel it and start a process to fix it. Remember the decision makers just gave Stan and Colliton an extension and Stan a promotion with added responsibilities. That in itself speaks to the absolute confusion within the organIzation.

Until they get fresh eyes from an experienced hockey mind (a tried and true hockey ops guy) on yrs old problems the maddening cycle will never ever end.
StLBravesFan
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 07.03.2011

Oct 26 @ 10:55 AM ET
This is another example where knowledge of all the goings on within the front office makes all the difference. If Stan was told to hire a cheap developmental coach for the rebuild and then ownership halted the rebuild, Stan looks different than if they told him not to count on a long term rebuild and to replace Q with a long term answer. To complicate matters, McD was the one communicating with Stan at that time.
- mohel

How about:

(1) Stan goes to management and says “We don’t have a #1 Dman and Boqvist ain’t gonna be it - if we try again, it will be 5 years before he’s ready to take over. I know a #1 Dman we can get.” Management says “OK - might as well try to get another vet or two so we can make a run at the playoffs and try to stabilize our revenue streams in the midst of pandemic caused problems ahead.”

(2). Management goes to Stan and says “We need to start making playoff runs, because revenues are going to be questionable for a few years, and we need to maximize the asses in seats as much as possible quickly.”

(3). Both kinda say to each other, “Let’s try to do both - keep developing the ‘kids’ while trying to make the tournament and maximize whatever revenues are left.”
333inthe3rd
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Chicago, IL
Joined: 02.04.2015

Oct 26 @ 11:05 AM ET
If this is purely a locker room problem, is the front office working on trading anybody to create a better locker room? For all we know, the players could have been told that Colliton isn't going anywhere, so they need to figure it out on their own.
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