Wasn't Adams first attempt at fixing the future last offseason? How did that go?
- kingcong39

he made the moves that on paper seemed good in the top 6.. the bottom 6 was a disaster and i dont know that any amount of quality was overcoming that coach.

Vesey never hit 20 goals or 20 assists during any season with the Rangers. He was a 30 point player on a team in the Rangers that had more talent. He joined a Sabres team with much less talent and produced accordingly.

The Sabres were actually 'in the hunt' weeks before the Frolik trade happened. Instead of making a trade when they really were in the hunt and needed the help, he waited and made the trade when it was too late. Ditto the Wayne Simmonds trade.

Botterill was entirely risk averse as a GM, in a multitude of ways.

He was a financial advisor who only believed in mutual funds and nothing else.
- kingcong39

You're right on Vesey, thought he did a little better then that (although with goals of 16/17/17, with the vast majority coming at ES, not a bad trade at the time for a 3rd)
As far as Frolik, his one attribute was the PK, which sucked for Buffalo. Like they were dead last by a mile on the PK, and still in the hunt until Ullmark went down. They should have tried to acquire better talent had they wanted to make a push, but Botterill knew (as I would think you, I, anyone who watched) they would need all their top players to stay healthy to even have a chance. So trading 2nd round picks for a small chance seems negligible.
And I don't think I disagree with what you are saying, just saying it different. He took calculated gambles that didn't pay off.

From the first time that they tried to trade for Vesey, (2016) there have only been two guys that have gotten significant NHL minutes thus far that were picked after the 3rd Buf sent Nash: Jesper Bratt and Viktor Mete.

I'm not trying to defend him here. but he had to get NHL players to come to Buf and a guy with 50 goals the prior 3 years combined isn't that bad of a gamble imo, of course.

Why excuse the utter and total failure that was last season as a result of the moves he made?

He had a very bad first season, and it does not bode well for this offseason.
- kingcong39

So he new Hall would disappear, he knew every goalie would get hurt. Eakin was the worst thing he did. He new Jack would deal with multiple injuries and miss half the season. He knew Stank was gonna be that bad. Yes he should have been fired earlier, but he has bosses to. It was a bad season, and he was part of it. We shall see how the offseason goes, but I am not gonna dwell on it doesn't bode well, when we don't know that.

when you hit rock bottom there is only one way to go
- SabresFaninIndiana

Yeah but that wasn't Botts fault.

Yeah but that wasn't Botts fault.
- Buff36

yeah i agree... i think he would have been a great assistant GM. he just didn't have the overall vision of a team but he had good drafting it seems (i guess we will find out)

Sure, but the players that played the last 25 or so games looked decent, prospects recently drafted. There's a foundation to build of, with more coming through the pipeline that will hopefully work out. Drafting is always a crap shoot in the NHL, you hope you hit more than you miss, and it seems the last 3 or so years that we have hit on more.
- Buff36

You don't know that yet. how many years in a row did the Sabres have AHL player of the year.

none of those guys lived up to it.

I understand being optimistic but I no longer trust anything said about prospects, until they actually do something in the NHL.

Ive said it 1,000 times and ill say it a million more. Prospects are severely overrated by their respective fanbases and usually underperform.

So he new Hall would disappear, he knew every goalie would get hurt. Eakin was the worst thing he did. He new Jack would deal with multiple injuries and miss half the season. He knew Stank was gonna be that bad. Yes he should have been fired earlier, but he has bosses to. It was a bad season, and he was part of it. We shall see how the offseason goes, but I am not gonna dwell on it doesn't bode well, when we don't know that.
- Buff36

"This is unacceptable"......two months go by.

According to Adams, he doesn't have to ask Peguals for permission for anything and it was his decision to keep a coach everyone knew was bad.

He had no plan, he was treading water.

He neither tore it down or built it up.

He was the drought Bills.
- ImThatGuy

He had a plan, it just didn’t work

He built a mobile puck moving D, hired a coach who was supposed to use them, and had to fire him because he was all-time bad, as was his next coach.

He was overestimated Mittelstadt’s development, and made some poor low risk gambles that didn’t pay off.

I don’t think he was good, but I think history will look at him a little more favorably when a lot of his guys are pieces here for a while

"This is unacceptable"......two months go by.

According to Adams, he doesn't have to ask Peguals for permission for anything and it was his decision to keep a coach everyone knew was bad.
- ImThatGuy

What do you think he's gonna say. Everything we know about the owners and you don't think they had anything to do with it.

You don't know that yet. how many years in a row did the Sabres have AHL player of the year.

none of those guys lived up to it.

I understand being optimistic but I no longer trust anything said about prospects, until they actually do something in the NHL.

Ive said it 1,000 times and ill say it a million more. Prospects are severely overrated by their respective fanbases and usually underperform.
- ImThatGuy

Teams build through drafting, you can't just go out and sign every FA. I don't know what to tell you, but from what we saw it looks to be a little brighter.

Example A)
Peterka is now an elite player without even touching the ice.
- ImThatGuy

You can bookmark this He will go top 5 in a redraft when this is all over with

I think the thing that Bugs me (see what I did there) about Eichels position here is that he’s trying to externalize this teams failure - it’s the franchises fault. There’s a fiber of truth in that of course, but let’s take a moment to call some bullpoop on Captain Passive Aggressive here.

Is there any player you can think of in the history of this franchise that’s had more agency and control over the state of their team? They have accommodated him constantly. Three recent examples:

Kruger - is the story we’re telling ourselves now that Eichel had no say in Kruger? In Housley before that? The blame here goes right to management then?

Skinner - are we believing that if Eichel wanted Skinner in his line he wouldn’t be there? The blame goes to Kruger (see above) or Botteril, or anyone other than Eichel.

ROR - are we forgetting the soft reason for that departure? The crown was fully, unquestionably handed to Jack as a result. He had no agency there?

Move him for what you can. He’ll succeed where he goes - he’s an extremely talented hockey player - but he’s also as responsible for this mess as anyone who does or has pulled on a game jersey here since he came in.
- nfph

first sip, now cisco!

well stated!

You can bookmark this He will go top 5 in a redraft when this is all over with
- gerbe75pts

I see a good 8-10 guys you could say this about at the moment. Gunna be hard to crack that list but I hope your a scouting wizz

Fiala is predicted to get $6M per for 5 years on his next deal.
- kingcong39

especially if he ends up in buffalo...it's high, no doubt, but that what 20+20 (6+8 on the pp) in 50 games in a contract year will get ya...i'd prefer $5m but the market is what it is...


correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't this the first of two arb-eligible rfa years he has?

when you hit rock bottom there is only one way to go
- SabresFaninIndiana

Frackers instinct is to drill down deeper

I am sick of Jack. Great Player, No doubt, Generational? Meh... I am just sick of spoiled kids always getting their way or they pout like a 2 year old. "Mom the Sabres wont let me have my experimental neck surgery the dumb poop heads"

So he goes public and shats all over the relationship. KA fires back, now everyone assumes if we don't trade him now he will have the control where he goes when the NMC kicks in , yes that may be true but the Sabres can always say NO DEAL and make that cry baby play for us for the next 5 years... Now I know that the Sabres or any team would have the set of marbles to do that to a player but I would have MUCH RESPECT for a team if they eve did it.

especially if he ends up in buffalo...it's high, no doubt, but that what 20+20 (6+8 on the pp) in 50 games in a contract year will get ya...i'd prefer $5m but the market is what it is...

correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't this the first of two arb-eligible rfa years he has?
- Michael Pachla

Yes as he has 2 seasons left before becoming a UFA.

That's why his predicted next deal is for 5 years, as it buys up 3 years of UFA and allows him to potentially cash in again when he's 30 and the flat cap is no more.

I am sick of Jack. Great Player, No doubt, Generational? Meh... I am just sick of spoiled kids always getting their way or they pout like a 2 year old. "Mom the Sabres wont let me have my experimental neck surgery the dumb poop heads"

So he goes public and shats all over the relationship. KA fires back, now everyone assumes if we don't trade him now he will have the control where he goes when the NMC kicks in , yes that may be true but the Sabres can always say NO DEAL and make that cry baby play for us for the next 5 years... Now I know that the Sabres or any team would have the set of marbles to do that to a player but I would have MUCH RESPECT for a team if they eve did it.
- hehateme

Sounds a little strong, but I like it. RoR got his way, how'd that work out. No, Jack, you can file a grievance with the league. If they go for it, have at it. If not, see you in September, a NTC is only leverage in a trade, we don't intend on trading our best asset for peanuts. If an offer floors us, we'll move you, but short of that and especially if you mail it in, you're going to be here for some time.

So he new Hall would disappear, he knew every goalie would get hurt. Eakin was the worst thing he did. He new Jack would deal with multiple injuries and miss half the season. He knew Stank was gonna be that bad. Yes he should have been fired earlier, but he has bosses to. It was a bad season, and he was part of it. We shall see how the offseason goes, but I am not gonna dwell on it doesn't bode well, when we don't know that.
- Buff36

Did anybody really think the goaltending duo of Ullmark and Hutton would play well or even hold up? No, but Adams did.

He signed Reinhart to yet another short term deal.

Here's what you've been consistently doing: Sure, Adams had moves that didn't work, but they were the fault of one of the player, the former coach, or the owners.

This is a bottom line business, and you are your results.

So far, Adams results are not good.

Peterka official

Did anybody really think the goaltending duo of Ullmark and Hutton would play well or even hold up? No, but Adams did.
- kingcong39

I think I expected far better than what we got out of that duo. Hutton's lasek was supposed to help and Ullmark looked like a legit starter. I certainly didn't think Ullmark would start less than 20 games and Michael Houser would be our last man standing at the end. Not sure I would blame Adams for tending...yet.

What was he going to do? Hutton was going to play out his year. Ullmark was going to be the starter and got hurt.

Agreed with the rest of what you said, but wanted to fight on this particular point lol.

Yes as he has 2 seasons left before becoming a UFA.

That's why his predicted next deal is for 5 years, as it buys up 3 years of UFA and allows him to potentially cash in again when he's 30 and the flat cap is no more.
- kingcong39

thx...if he could be signed by buffalo for $5-5.5m, are you good with that?

I think the thing that Bugs me (see what I did there) about Eichels position here is that he’s trying to externalize this teams failure - it’s the franchises fault. There’s a fiber of truth in that of course, but let’s take a moment to call some bullpoop on Captain Passive Aggressive here.

Is there any player you can think of in the history of this franchise that’s had more agency and control over the state of their team? They have accommodated him constantly. Three recent examples:

Kruger - is the story we’re telling ourselves now that Eichel had no say in Kruger? In Housley before that? The blame here goes right to management then?

Skinner - are we believing that if Eichel wanted Skinner in his line he wouldn’t be there? The blame goes to Kruger (see above) or Botteril, or anyone other than Eichel.

ROR - are we forgetting the soft reason for that departure? The crown was fully, unquestionably handed to Jack as a result. He had no agency there?

Move him for what you can. He’ll succeed where he goes - he’s an extremely talented hockey player - but he’s also as responsible for this mess as anyone who does or has pulled on a game jersey here since he came in.
- nfph

My opinions on these comments :

Krueger and Housley were bad coaches, that's why they're gone. They were the wrong hires, as usual.

Skinner was confusingly demoted from Jack's line for Krueger reasons - reasons none of us will understand. Best guess is that Skinner didn't try hard in practice ? Who cares. Play him with Jack and watch him score 40. I don't care if he was perceived as someone who didn't practice well.

ROR was stupidly traded by our GM at the time for no reason. He didn't ask out, he was fine playing here, and "fans" basically tried to run him out town. Management listened I guess (didn't want the backlash ?), and he was traded for one of the worst returns ever by the team.

None of that was because of anything Jack had to say.

On another note...

3 players with multiple playoff failures to pick from for the Hart Trophy - "player judged most valuable to his team".
McDavid
Matthews
MacKinnon

Yes, I realize it is for the regular season, yet it is funny those three have won nothing in the past season.
Maybe Mark Stone should have been nominated.