Pretty clear they just viewed Hischier as the better player, they were correct.
- ClaudeFather

They arent correct... yet. Both players careers are just starting. a Lot can change in the next 3-4 years

https://thehockeywriters.com/flyers-hartnell-kimonen-trade-revisited/
- ClaudeFather

There are 2 trades conflated into one there. Forsberg for Scot Upshall, Parent, and 1st and 3rd. Then, a year later, that first for soon to be UFAs Hartnell and Kimmo because Preds were a tire fire organizationally.

The latter should be seen as a separate trade, not part of the Forsberg one. Its entirely possible we might have had Kimmo and Scottie for our first the year after, for example. Or for two seconds and so on.

I just looked at his numbers. You are completely right. He was already 25, and had not scored 20 goals in any season. He put up 3 successive seasons of 50+ goals and 2 of 40+. Habs would never have traded him if they knew this was in his future.

So, yeah, definitely Leclair then.
- PT21

Just as an undervalued player category. I don't think anyone saw what he did coming. Just like when Sharpe was traded no one saw him having that kind of career.

Remember when we could’ve had ekblad but the deal breaker was we wouldn’t throw in Simmons… yeah good times.
- Im back yet again

Thats a completely unfair assessment.

1) You dont know if that was 100% the case. Its a rumour

2) Simmonds at that time was one of our top players. Comparing him then to him now is unfair.

Pronger? We didnt really give anything too substatial. Lupul who spent more time hurt than on the ice, Sbisa and two firsts which ended up being Emerson Etem and John Moore

Flyer also got Kimmo Timonen and Scott Hartnell for a 1st round pick that ended up being Jonathon Blum

At the end of the day Id say these trades amounted to giving up nothing
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Pronger was a soon to be UFA too.

Remember when we could’ve had ekblad but the deal breaker was we wouldn’t throw in Simmons… yeah good times.
- Im back yet again

Ronald was so scared to make a hockey trade. But hey he had a plan.

Morin where he was drafted for sure. Patrick is a miss but hard to fault them, the luck with this kid is unreal. There were plenty of experts who had him#1. The whole build up was him or Nico. While that is true, when you look at the Flyers whole body of work for drafting, it removes any forgiveness on Patrick. They have a pattern of missing. Now they have some nice pieces that are still young. Allison, if he gets better and stays healthy is going to be a really good player. Allison has good wheels, size, shot and hockey IQ. The Flyers have some bad luck, I spoke about this last month. You look Allison then Laberge and even Rubtsov and injured. Were they all the same draft class or was Rub a different one. Either way in a 18 month period their drafting was hammered. Then Frost, then Patrick and what the hell is going on. Maybe other teams had the same amount of bad luck. It really doesn't matter, Hex had a job to do and the results are not there.

This will be the final year to grade out those picks in my opinion. If they are not healthy by now they probably will always have issues. if they don't play up this season then they are not the players Hex thought they were.

I will say I am more impressed with CF's drafting SO FAR. His kids look good and fit a need for the team.
- wcorvette

I get the Patrick pass to a certain extent but IMO it’s severely flawed.

NEITHER nico or Patrick were projected as star players. They were projected as safe good players with little risk to bust. That they should have nice careers. Miro makar and Petterson were projected higher ceiling possible. Obviously more risk with that. My major problem with that is given the gift of lottery and moving from 13 to 2 omg if there ever was a time to swing for that high ceiling! Even if they drafted any of miro makar Petterson (take your pick hexy) and you miss at least it’s understandable that you took a swing. Instead hexy was sitting with a 3-2 count bases loaded bottom of the 9th and he knew he was taking pitch no matter what. He took the safe play. If that was Stevie y how would he have played that? With that said I don’t crucify hexy for it but really wish he’d have swung

Does anyone know what the rules will be for players like Foerster and Wisdom next season? They are both still technically too young to stay in the AHL and would have to go back to jrs, but it is obvious they are too good for jrs.. Will they be allowed to stay in the AHL or will it go back to being NHL or juniors until they are 20?

I wonder if they will put some sort of exemption in place for players who had to go that route?

edited to add:

Foerster wont be 20 until Jan '22
Wisdom wont be 20 until July '22
- MBFlyerfan

They either go to juniors or nhl team.

Great question. That would be a horrible process. They had a layoff, then they started to learn pro style of play, then back to juniors, then back to AHL?

I hope they crack the roster!
- PT21

They aren’t nhl ready. Go to juniors play the year. Probably go ahl year after and at best come up half way through season

I thought the OP was talking not just about winning the trade, but the extent of the win. Seeing a young, undervalued guy who turns out to be a star.

I honestly don't recall when that ever happened for us.
- PT21

John leclair

Here recently I have been harsh on the Hextall drafting. Now I am seeing about his trades. I agree he needed to be more aggressive with trades. If he was going to do a partial rebuild he needed to supplement his drafting, it was a mistake not to.

I will remind all he was handed a terrible CAP situation and was restricted in the beginning on what he could do.

That said, you have a team like the Pens who are always up against the cap and somehow trade to add the players they want/need.

There are 2 trades conflated into one there. Forsberg for Scot Upshall, Parent, and 1st and 3rd. Then, a year later, that first for soon to be UFAs Hartnell and Kimmo because Preds were a tire fire organizationally.

The latter should be seen as a separate trade, not part of the Forsberg one. Its entirely possible we might have had Kimmo and Scottie for our first the year after, for example. Or for two seconds and so on.
- PT21

Regardless a great trade, funny how the narrative changes once someone has a good response

Question for the group. Who would you rather have right now? Mark Stone or Nathan MacKinnon?
- mickel25

MacKinnon....not close for me.

They arent correct... yet. Both players careers are just starting. a Lot can change in the next 3-4 years
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Well they are 100% correct up to this point and it’s not even close, 3-4 years it’s going to be the same.

I didn't know that. SO I guess he can't. It just seems unfair to the player to deny them the ability to play in the league after they already spent a season there because of an age rule that only applies to the CHL's.
- MBFlyerfan

It’s to protect the Canadian juniors teams so they have stars and DONT go bankrupt and fold. That’s why draft age should be raised to 20. Like it used to be. Zero reason other than the occasional Crosby that comes along and can physically and mentally play in nhl at 18 19. Even look at mcdavid… injured as 18 year old. 97% of players don’t play regularly before age of 20 on nhl.

Regardless a great trade, funny how the narrative changes once someone has a good response
- ClaudeFather

Its not the narrative. Its the details. We were focusing on the kind of trade when one team sees something the other doesn't (or gets very lucky).

The Foppa trade originally was a fair one. Preds thought they were contenders. I would say we lost that trade, because both Scottie and Parent never lived up to potential, especially the latter.

After that, Preds went into a tailspin. Everyone was leaving. Flyers had cash and were willing to spend. They grabbed some UFAs-to-be that the other team was willing to let go. Kimmo was already a star, Hartnell was on the verge. Preds knew what they were letting go, Flyers knew what they were getting.

No one here got lucky or outsmarted the other. Those pending UFA type trades,, where a team is unable/unwilling to pony up and pay its stars or the star doesn't want to stay, happen all the time.

It’s to protect the Canadian juniors teams so they have stars and DONT go bankrupt and fold. That’s why draft age should be raised to 20. Like it used to be. Zero reason other than the occasional Crosby that comes along and can physically and mentally play in nhl at 18 19. Even look at mcdavid… injured as 18 year old. 97% of players don’t play regularly before age of 20 on nhl.
- Im back yet again

I know this already. That isn't the point Im making.

I ask because these are different circumstances. They have already played a season in the AHL. Doesn't seem fair to say they cant and I believe an exception should be made.

John leclair
- Im back yet again

Yes.


How about the Stan Bowman trading Panarin to reacquire Saad and some irrelevant pieces? That's the prototype of losing a hockey trade.

Question for the group. Who would you rather have right now? Mark Stone or Nathan MacKinnon?
- mickel25

Depends…. Assuming you don’t have a young fast top talent on roster or about to make roster then Big Mac 100 times over. With that said say you were to have a Petterson or aho or Barzal type player then I’d consider stone but would probably still go Big Mac. But I’d pause for a second

Thats a completely unfair assessment.

1) You dont know if that was 100% the case. Its a rumour

2) Simmonds at that time was one of our top players. Comparing him then to him now is unfair.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Hey I love simmonds and yes he was still productive at time and on good contract but and this is a big but he was a winger getting close to end of prime and we knew big contract was gonna be coming which for a winger (not elite winger at that but a good one) we probably were never gonna give it. If offered a #1 pick dman ekblad was highly regarded at draft then absolutely in that scenario you make that trade 100% of the time. We weren’t cup contender and were rebuilding at time. If a scenario to help a rebuild came along that was it. I think hexy was probably either over ruled or he flat out didn’t do it because of pressure to try to win now or at least be competitive plus Wayne was huge fan favorite. Either way that move should’ve been made. And it’s well documented hexy wanted to make splash as draft was in Philly that year.

Here recently I have been harsh on the Hextall drafting. Now I am seeing about his trades. I agree he needed to be more aggressive with trades. If he was going to do a partial rebuild he needed to supplement his drafting, it was a mistake not to.

I will remind all he was handed a terrible CAP situation and was restricted in the beginning on what he could do.

That said, you have a team like the Pens who are always up against the cap and somehow trade to add the players they want/need.
- wcorvette

Drafted sid Geno flower letang. Pens are a bad example. They bottomed out 20 years ago to get these pieces. Set them up so a couple decades. We have none of that.

I know this already. That isn't the point Im making.

I ask because these are different circumstances. They have already played a season in the AHL. Doesn't seem fair to say they cant and I believe an exception should be made.
- MBFlyerfan

Fair enough … I mean it would be nice if they gave the teams the option but I doubt they will.

Yes.


How about the Stan Bowman trading Panarin to reacquire Saad and some irrelevant pieces? That's the prototype of losing a hockey trade.
- PT21

I don’t think Panarin was even really shopped if I recall. Stupid actually. Like hall for Larson trade. Like why would you not put it out there because the return was horrible and could’ve surely gotten more with more offers probably

Depends…. Assuming you don’t have a young fast top talent on roster or about to make roster then Big Mac 100 times over. With that said say you were to have a Petterson or aho or Barzal type player then I’d consider stone but would probably still go Big Mac. But I’d pause for a second
- Im back yet again

Agreed. I would take MacKinnon every time. I posed the question due to the fact Stone is outplaying MacKinnon in this series. Thought it would be an interesting debate.

John leclair
- Im back yet again

Braydon Coburn deal was a great deal for a top four defenseman. Coburn was not a "star" but a good defenseman.