Cup shouldnt influence whether or not the trade was a loss for the Flyers though. If the Flyers keep Schenn, we dont win a cup still. If Frost and Farabee become top players in the NHL, I would say it was a win/win
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Will either even be as good as Schenn is/was will interesting to follow.

Don't see either one being a top player in the NHL. That is a high bar.

Why cant we ever make a hockey trade like getting a guy like Adam Fox, in his 2nd yr a Norris Finalist, for two 2nd rounds picks? Zibanejad for Brassard? It just never seems to happen . Seems our scouting system whether its trades or draft choices never hits a Home Run.

Will either even be as good as Schenn is/was will interesting to follow.

Don't see either one being a top player in the NHL. That is a high bar.
- hello it's me 2050

i mean, you couldn't possibly look at schenn's first two seasons in the nhl and then look at farabee's first two seasons in the nhl and try to gauge off of that. could you?

I don't think we are contenders even with Makar opposite Provy. Watching the playoffs makes me realize how slow our forwards are, and how un-creative their game is in general.
- PT21

Totally agree with this!! I've been harping on this for quite awhile. Everyone points the finger at the defense, but the biggest eyesore on this team is the slow/soft forwards. That is going to be the hardest thing to fix. Defense is a team thing and these forwards suck at it due to their soft/slow nature. Thanks!

I don't think we are contenders even with Makar opposite Provy. Watching the playoffs makes me realize how slow our forwards are, and how un-creative their game is in general.
- PT21

With Makar this past year, I think we would have had a chance to get into the dance. The lack of speed and creativity would have doomed us in round 1. Just like last year.

Oh wait...my bad. We were one game away from the conference finals.

Why cant we ever make a hockey trade like getting a guy like Adam Fox, in his 2nd yr a Norris Finalist, for two 2nd rounds picks? Zibanejad for Brassard? It just never seems to happen . Seems our scouting system whether its trades or draft choices never hits a Home Run.
- hfc355

Holmgren made a good amount of those types of trades during his tenure as GM.

With Makar this past year, I think we would have had a chance to get into the dance. The lack of speed and creativity would have doomed us in round 1. Just like last year.

Oh wait...my bad. We were one game away from the conference finals.
- Robert's Plant

correct.

i mean, you couldn't possibly look at schenn's first two seasons in the nhl and then look at farabee's first two seasons in the nhl and try to gauge off of that. could you?
- Ftown19125

Is that what you interpreted out of my post?

My theory/opinion, which I cannot prove, is that all these cup winning teams had an essential kernel of high end talent and the other good players were added around that kernel. For Blues it's Pietro; for Caps, its AO; for Tampa, its Hedman, Kucherov, Point; for Pens its Crosby, Malkin; for Hawks, it's Towes, Kane, Keith; for LA it is Doughty,Kopitar and so on.

Having that kernel doesn't guarantee you the cup: Edmonton, and Sharks with Thornton and many examples. But you cannot (frank)ing win without that kernel. And we don't have that kernel and further, it is not in the farm system.

Regarding the other things you said, missing on picks: well, that is true for every club. Look at Tampa and how many of their stars came after the first round (they themselves missed on those picks in the first round).
- PT21

Yes, I agree with you 1000% that you need that core group of top end players to build around, and I have posted repeatedly the Flyers just don't have it right now. The only thing we are slightly misaligned with is I don't think you need to be picking top 5 to create the core group of players, though I understand your point that your odds greatly increase in finding such players when you are picking at or near the top of the draft.

I don't think we are contenders even with Makar opposite Provy. Watching the playoffs makes me realize how slow our forwards are, and how un-creative their game is in general.
- PT21

Yes, how true. Most good teams attack the middle of the o-zone, but not the Flyers. No, it seems their only play is to muck in the corners and sweep the puck around the boards to the point and take a shot, that more often than not gets blocked or misses the net. This Flyers team seriously lacks speed, grit and top end skill. Did you watch Saad last night for Colorado? He is a FA this summer, and a player I have posted the Flyers should target, along with Jayden Schwartz, to bring in some needed speed and skill.

With Makar this past year, I think we would have had a chance to get into the dance. The lack of speed and creativity would have doomed us in round 1. Just like last year.

Oh wait...my bad. We were one game away from the conference finals.
- Robert's Plant

Would the Flyers have been a better team if Hextall picked Makar over Patrick, and Rantanen over Provorov?

Canes are out 4-1 series. Tampa is that much better. Now they played magic cap this season and will pay the price. Vegas will have cap issues.

But it is not just the Flyers chasing the best teams, even a team like the Canes are chasing, they are still looking for the answer. This off-season should offer a lot of opportunities to reset your team.

Would the Flyers have been a better team if Hextall picked Makar over Patrick, and Rantanen over Provorov?
- jd250

I’ve been told numerous times you can’t play the hindsight draft game. Also other teams pass over players multiple times too.

I’ve been told numerous times you can’t play the hindsight draft game. Also other teams pass over players multiple times too.
- PLindbergh31

you cant but you can for sure grade out how well they drafted and right now they missed on a lot it appears.

Why cant we ever make a hockey trade like getting a guy like Adam Fox, in his 2nd yr a Norris Finalist, for two 2nd rounds picks? Zibanejad for Brassard? It just never seems to happen . Seems our scouting system whether its trades or draft choices never hits a Home Run.
- hfc355

Kubina for a second = WIN!

Grossmann for a second = WIN

AMAC for a second, third and mangene = WIN!

Walker for GAGNE = WIN!

Flyers win tons of trades

Kubina for a second = WIN!

Grossmann for a second = WIN

AMAC for a second, third and mangene = WIN!

Walker for GAGNE = WIN!

Flyers win tons of trades
- corduroy

gudas for niskanen was a good one, at least for a season.

you cant but you can for sure grade out how well they drafted and right now they missed on a lot it appears.
- wcorvette

Morin, Patrick, and Rubtsov are enormous misses. None are even replacement level NHL players.

Kubina for a second = WIN!

Grossmann for a second = WIN

AMAC for a second, third and mangene = WIN!

Walker for GAGNE = WIN!

Flyers win tons of trades
- corduroy

No issue with those moves imo.

Morin, Patrick, and Rubtsov are enormous misses. None are even replacement level NHL players.
- PLindbergh31

Add Labarge. Still question marks on Ratcliff, Ginning, JOB, Allison, and Tanner off the top of my head. Some look more promising than others. NAK to an extent as well isnt a great pick as taken early 40's

Add Labarge. Still question marks on Ratcliff, Ginning, JOB, Allison, and Tanner off the top of my head. Some look more promising than others. NAK to an extent as well isnt a great pick as taken early 40's
- hello it's me 2050

Laberge is another one. Forgot about him.
Hell at this point there are still question marks on Frost. No one knows for sure what he is going to be at the NHL level. Sample size is too small.

Canes are out 4-1 series. Tampa is that much better. Now they played magic cap this season and will pay the price. Vegas will have cap issues.

But it is not just the Flyers chasing the best teams, even a team like the Canes are chasing, they are still looking for the answer. This off-season should offer a lot of opportunities to reset your team.
- wcorvette

Series was much closer than looking at just 4-1, Carolina carried the play for long stretches.

Laberge is another one. Forgot about him.
Hell at this point there are still question marks on Frost. No one knows for sure what he is going to be at the NHL level. Sample size is too small.
- PLindbergh31

Fair assessment on Frost as well. The opportunity s there for him, though missing a year doesn't help him. Come Sept it will really be pretty much a year and a half of him not really playing. Saw how that effected what's his name. So I can see Frost starting in the AHL very possibly.

Fair assessment on Frost as well. The opportunity s there for him, though missing a year doesn't help him. Come Sept it will really be pretty much a year and a half of him not really playing. Saw how that effected what's his name. So I can see Frost starting in the AHL very possibly.
- hello it's me 2050

Agree. I still think Frost will be good, but as you said missing a full season of development is tough.

Would the Flyers have been a better team if Hextall picked Makar over Patrick, and Rantanen over Provorov?
- jd250

Man I really really wanted us to trade for additional 1st that year to get Rantanen. I was dead set on Provy at 7. But was willing to trade whatever to get an extra pick to snag Rantanen. I would have offered Schenn or Simmonds in any deal to get him!

Morin, Patrick, and Rubtsov are enormous misses. None are even replacement level NHL players.
- PLindbergh31

Morin where he was drafted for sure. Patrick is a miss but hard to fault them, the luck with this kid is unreal. There were plenty of experts who had him#1. The whole build up was him or Nico. While that is true, when you look at the Flyers whole body of work for drafting, it removes any forgiveness on Patrick. They have a pattern of missing. Now they have some nice pieces that are still young. Allison, if he gets better and stays healthy is going to be a really good player. Allison has good wheels, size, shot and hockey IQ. The Flyers have some bad luck, I spoke about this last month. You look Allison then Laberge and even Rubtsov and injured. Were they all the same draft class or was Rub a different one. Either way in a 18 month period their drafting was hammered. Then Frost, then Patrick and what the hell is going on. Maybe other teams had the same amount of bad luck. It really doesn't matter, Hex had a job to do and the results are not there.

This will be the final year to grade out those picks in my opinion. If they are not healthy by now they probably will always have issues. if they don't play up this season then they are not the players Hex thought they were.

I will say I am more impressed with CF's drafting SO FAR. His kids look good and fit a need for the team.