Coyotes could/should have taken Mitch Marner.

Before you say “revisionist history” there were many talent evaluators that had Marner ahead of Strome at that point.

They made the wrong pick, that’s due to having an inadequate amateur scouting staff not because tanking and having your choice at the 3rd best player in the draft is the wrong thing to do
- Pegullaville

My point is that's you're lucky to get 2 great players in a draft, at the very top obviously. 1 is sometimes, often, pushing it. To drop and get lucky because some other team (frank)ed up or a guy was way better than expected is immaterial.

Three more generational players coming soon....so we will be up to around 5-6 generational players for this generation.
- Ratsreign

I really wish people would understand the definitions of words they used.

My point is that's you're lucky to get 2 great players in a draft, at the very top obviously. 1 is sometimes, often, pushing it. To drop and get lucky because some other team (frank)ed up or a guy was way better than expected is immaterial.
- Wetbandit1

Right, and my point was that there is still a virtue to losing and “tanking” is not outright pointless.

The Avalanche were not getting Cale Makar finishing 8th last and picking 10th.

I also think there is a reason why teams like Colorado and Carolina have been hitting on picks more frequently than other teams regardless of draft position *cough analytics cough *.

The reason Buffalo sucks is because of poor management/coaching not because of tanking.

Time will tell, and I would love to eat some humble pie, but using the 8th overall pick on Jack Quinn instead of Rossi, Lundell, Perfetti, Jarvis is not tankings fault. It’s the owner gutting the scouting department and replacing it with an analytics department that brought us Cody Eakin and Tobias Reider.

Right, and my point was that there is still a virtue to losing and “tanking” is not outright pointless.

The Avalanche were not getting Cale Makar finishing 8th last and picking 10th.

I also think there is a reason why teams like Colorado and Carolina have been hitting on picks more frequently than other teams regardless of draft position *cough analytics cough *.

The reason Buffalo sucks is because of poor management/coaching not because of tanking.

Time will tell, and I would love to eat some humble pie, but using the 8th overall pick on Jack Quinn instead of Rossi, Lundell, Perfetti, Jarvis is not tankings fault. It’s the owner gutting the scouting department and replacing it with an analytics department that brought us Cody Eakin and Tobias Reider.
- Pegullaville

No one is really even saying to “tank”
Gerbe kind of is i guess
But imo....
IF we trade Jack, it’s just inevitable that we’ll be pretty bad

Right, and my point was that there is still a virtue to losing and “tanking” is not outright pointless.

The Avalanche were not getting Cale Makar finishing 8th last and picking 10th.

I also think there is a reason why teams like Colorado and Carolina have been hitting on picks more frequently than other teams regardless of draft position *cough analytics cough *.

The reason Buffalo sucks is because of poor management/coaching not because of tanking.

Time will tell, and I would love to eat some humble pie, but using the 8th overall pick on Jack Quinn instead of Rossi, Lundell, Perfetti, Jarvis is not tankings fault. It’s the owner gutting the scouting department and replacing it with an analytics department that brought us Cody Eakin and Tobias Reider.
- Pegullaville

No one is really even saying to “tank”
Gerbe kind of is i guess
But imo....
IF we trade Jack, it’s just inevitable that we’ll be pretty bad- bc we’ll obviously lose a talented piece of our team’s makeup & not have an immediate replacement
The guys at the top of the 2022 & 2023 draft are outstanding talents though,
so acquiring a couple of them could mitigate his loss by becoming “core pieces” we can build around- along with whatever else we get for Jack

Just trying to say that if we lose him that it’s not all doom & gloom necessarily in the long run

Right, and my point was that there is still a virtue to losing and “tanking” is not outright pointless.

The Avalanche were not getting Cale Makar finishing 8th last and picking 10th.

I also think there is a reason why teams like Colorado and Carolina have been hitting on picks more frequently than other teams regardless of draft position *cough analytics cough *.

The reason Buffalo sucks is because of poor management/coaching not because of tanking.

Time will tell, and I would love to eat some humble pie, but using the 8th overall pick on Jack Quinn instead of Rossi, Lundell, Perfetti, Jarvis is not tankings fault. It’s the owner gutting the scouting department and replacing it with an analytics department that brought us Cody Eakin and Tobias Reider.
- Pegullaville

I see all these mock drafts where it seems clear the time invested in looking up draft eligible players is virtually zip, as the ordering of the players is hilarious, to the point you know the author didn't even look at how the player actually performed this season and last.

Sometimes, the simplest approach is best when it comes to the draft.

Simply putting the player and their stats into an excel and sorting by points/points per game and age (youngest to oldest), and using that as your draft guide without caring about supposed skating problems, character issues, or any of the other myriad excuses for not taking a player, would yield post-first round quality players consistently.

Hell, look at Guenther. I've seen him all over the place in mock drafts due to the tired tropes that scouts use as negative talking points, but look at his actual production this year and last.

It seems it's too difficult for many to tune out the noise.

I see all these mock drafts where it seems clear the time invested in looking up draft eligible players is virtually zip, as the ordering of the players is hilarious, to the point you know the author didn't even look at how the player actually performed this season and last.

Sometimes, the simplest approach is best when it comes to the draft.

Simply putting the player and their stats into an excel and sorting by points/points per game and age (youngest to oldest), and using that as your draft guide without caring about supposed skating problems, character issues, or any of the other myriad excuses for not taking a player, would yield post-first round quality players consistently.

Hell, look at Guenther. I've seen him all over the place in mock drafts due to the tired tropes that scouts use as negative talking points, but look at his actual production this year and last.

It seems it's too difficult for many to tune out the noise.
- kingcong39

Yeah, but what if they're Russian?

https://twitter.com/Brass.../1390803038508625925?s=19

Who said “we WANT to be bad....”
If we lose Jack, we will be bad
And having a lot of high end talent in these next 2 drafts could help mitigate losing Jack,
plus add some great young talent to our new core
- jdfitz77

Did I say people said be bad, but usually to get that generalational talent you have to be bad. And why will we be bad if we lose Jack, this team proved it can play hockey and win without him, would he help sure, he's a great hockey player, but if Adams and Karmanos add the right pieces this team can win without Jack.

https://twitter.com/BrassMaster418/status/1390803038508625925?s=19


- kingcong39

That's a very intriguing draft, a lot of nice pieces.

Did I say people said be bad, but usually to get that generalational talent you have to be bad. And why will we be bad if we lose Jack, this team proved it can play hockey and win without him, would he help sure, he's a great hockey player, but if Adams and Karmanos add the right pieces this team can win without Jack.
- Buff36

Heck, yeah.

Ffs, we haven't won anything with Eichel. In fact, we've been atrocious for 6 years with him. What are people so afraid of?

Personally, I don't want to trade him. But if we do and the pieces are good coming back, then what's the problem?

We may fill 2-3 holes immediately by trading him.

Now, all that said, management better be right with the pieces they acquire, if they do move him.

Did I say people said be bad, but usually to get that generalational talent you have to be bad. And why will we be bad if we lose Jack, this team proved it can play hockey and win without him, would he help sure, he's a great hockey player, but if Adams and Karmanos add the right pieces this team can win without Jack.
- Buff36

Doubt it
And there’s be a ceiling on how much we can with doing what u suggest
IF Jack is traded it should be for youth & picks, not stuff that helps us win now
We should trade anyone 24 & over who has value (Sam, Risto, etc)
& rebuild the right way

Heck, yeah.

Ffs, we haven't won anything with Eichel. In fact, we've been atrocious for 6 years with him. What are people so afraid of?

Personally, I don't want to trade him. But if we do and the pieces are good coming back, then what's the problem?

We may fill 2-3 holes immediately by trading him.

Now, all that said, management better be right with the pieces they acquire, if they do move him.
- Powerslave

If we are trading Jack,
then we should be doing a rebuild- not trying to fill holes & win now

Heck, yeah.

Ffs, we haven't won anything with Eichel. In fact, we've been atrocious for 6 years with him. What are people so afraid of?

Personally, I don't want to trade him. But if we do and the pieces are good coming back, then what's the problem?

We may fill 2-3 holes immediately by trading him.

Now, all that said, management better be right with the pieces they acquire, if they do move him.
- Powerslave

Tired of hearing we probably will be bad without him, nobody can really say that. I don't want to trade him either, but why can't we get pieces that could help know and the future for him. If management does it right, this team can be decent next year, and get better and better from there.

If we are trading Jack,
then we should be doing a rebuild- not trying to fill holes & win now
- jdfitz77

You can't just draw a line in the sand like that.

Young players CAN be NHL ready players. Byfield isn't far away. Neither is Turcotte. Vilardi is playing now.

Screw first round picks. I want players.

Tired of hearing we probably will be bad without him, nobody can really say that. I don't want to trade him either, but why can't we get pieces that could help know and the future for him. If management does it right, this team can be decent next year, and get better and better from there.
- Buff36

This.

In fact, I would bet that Adams insists on a roster player or two, in any package.

If we are trading Jack,
then we should be doing a rebuild- not trying to fill holes & win now
- jdfitz77

That is not true, it all depends on the pieces coming back who could be young good NHL players already. It's never 1 person who makes a TEAM, it's everything on that TEAM.

You can't just draw a line in the sand like that.

Young players CAN be NHL ready players. Byfield isn't far away. Neither is Turcotte. Vilardi is playing now.

Screw first round picks. I want players.
- Powerslave

Good Post

That is not true, it all depends on the pieces coming back who could be young good NHL players already. It's never 1 person who makes a TEAM, it's everything on that TEAM.
- Buff36

And I think we've seen that over the past 25 games.

These kids are growing together.

And I think we've seen that over the past 25 games.

These kids are growing together.
- Powerslave

Exactly Power, these guys have proven they can play, is there gonna be growing pains, off course there young and learning. Losing Jack would suck, but it's not the end of the world especially if Management gets it right. Actually more worried about losing Rhino right now, can't believe I said that. F@ck more losing, get it right and build around what you have.

So we have sucked because of Eichel and Dahlin ?

As much as I groaned about not picking Draisatil, Reinhart has also turned out to be quite the hockey player.

Mitts looks great after some seasoning.

Cozens has shown well as a 19/20 year old.

Tanking was not the issue, it was building around those pieces that continue to be the issue
- Pegullaville

Perhaps you're not taking into consideration the losing culture it created and how extremely difficult it has been to break free from

Perhaps you're not taking into consideration the losing culture it created and how extremely difficult it has been to break free from
- Michael Pachla

I blame ownership ..... Eichel last year was producing at a 1.2 points per game pace.

How can you blame him for last years losing season?

I really wish people would understand the definitions of words they used.
- Wetbandit1

This is a good post.

Eichel is not Generational, McDavid is.
While Jack is very, very good and maybe elite even; he IS replaceable.

Now, if there truly is 3 prospects over the next year who project to be at or a higher level of play...well maybe, just maybe the Sabres should trade him for a bevy of young prospects and picks...while "contending" to select one of those three (3) high-end talents.

Now, factor in the return for Sam Reinhart and whoa nelly!

Perhaps you're not taking into consideration the losing culture it created and how extremely difficult it has been to break free from
- Michael Pachla

See:
Maple Leafs Toronto
Avalanch Coloado
Senators Ottawa
Penguins Pittsburgh
Kings Los Angeles
Blackhawks Chicago



All teams who tanked and went on to be good.

Perhaps you're not taking into consideration the losing culture it created and how extremely difficult it has been to break free from
- Michael Pachla

He totally ignores any that aspect of it, as if losing on purpose happens in a vacuum with no stank left behind on the organization or the players who get used to/accept losing.