Bill Meltzer: Flyers Gameday: 4/8/21 @ NYI

Bill Meltzer: Flyers Gameday: 4/8/21 @ NYI
- bmeltzer

Time to sell!

It's really time to try and rid themselves of some of these stale veterans! The Giroux and Voracek dog and pony show needs to come to an end after this season. They put up pretty numbers, but they just aren't complete players. It was on full display the other night when the Bruins veterans took over the game. I'm hoping Voracek and Ghost are gone(been wishing this for a couple years now), and also hope one of JVR and Giroux are gone. Wouldn't be against keeping Giroux of course, but at a reduced role. Really concerned with Hayes cause he just looks slow and disinterested. Really hope this isn't what he is going to be for the next 5 years. This team simply needs to get faster and more physical. Thanks!

Go team. Hopefully all the "young" guys can step up and start to show some of that star potential.

Time to sell!

- HenryHockey

Judging by what meager returns the Devil's got, selling isn't looking too terribly meaningful.

It's really time to try and rid themselves of some of these stale veterans! The Giroux and Voracek dog and pony show needs to come to an end after this season. They put up pretty numbers, but they just aren't complete players. It was on full display the other night when the Bruins veterans took over the game. I'm hoping Voracek and Ghost are gone(been wishing this for a couple years now), and also hope one of JVR and Giroux are gone. Wouldn't be against keeping Giroux of course, but at a reduced role. Really concerned with Hayes cause he just looks slow and disinterested. Really hope this isn't what he is going to be for the next 5 years. This team simply needs to get faster and more physical. Thanks!
- Phillywhiteout

It's not for a lack of effort, but a really telling stat for me was of the 40+ shots the Flyers took Tuesday, G accounted for 0.

I agree on Voracek. He's lost that mojo.

You're not moving a big contract at the deadline. With what's available for us to sell we also aren't getting more than mid round picks. Without selling prospects our only valuable asset in the trade market is Scott Laughton. Theres been a ton of Laughton at 50% to the Leafs for Liljegren and that sounds ok. Leafs have 0 shot at re signing him so it could truly be a get an asset than bring him back.

It's really time to try and rid themselves of some of these stale veterans! The Giroux and Voracek dog and pony show needs to come to an end after this season. They put up pretty numbers, but they just aren't complete players. It was on full display the other night when the Bruins veterans took over the game. I'm hoping Voracek and Ghost are gone(been wishing this for a couple years now), and also hope one of JVR and Giroux are gone. Wouldn't be against keeping Giroux of course, but at a reduced role. Really concerned with Hayes cause he just looks slow and disinterested. Really hope this isn't what he is going to be for the next 5 years. This team simply needs to get faster and more physical. Thanks!
- Phillywhiteout

OK, so what is your replacement plan? A tear-down and total rebuild is not going to happen. We all agree that changes are needed, and the teams the Flyers need to compete with next season when the NHL, hopefully, goes back to a normal schedule and games outside the division.

By "more physical", what specifically do you mean? More hits? More fights? Heavier on pucks?

By "faster" what do you mean: Adding more individual speedsters? Or do you mean being less stationary as a team, with better gaps, puck support and feet moving?

BTW, Giroux does more than "put up pretty numbers". You also would have replace the club's top playmaker, one of the most dominant faceoff men in the NHL, someone who can switch back and forth between LW and C without skipping a beat, and someone who, in fact, has been THE catalyst in leading the charge in multiple games the Flyers have managed to win this season.


Want to get rid of Voracek, assuming an actual hockey trade were possible and not just a swapping around of money-for-money? Fine. Suggest a workable deal.

Want a more consistent two-way player? A comparably skilled offensive player who perhaps is a little less playmaker and more of a finisher? Again, suggest something.

I have no problem with the Flyers making a bold move or two by next season. It's needed, agreed. But merely trading just for a trade's sake is counterproductive. Even if it's a temporary step backward in on-paper talent, there has to be corresponding step forward in being consistently tough to play against. It also has to work out cap-wise.

Lastly, it can't bee a total knee-jerk reaction to what has been a very strange and rather precarious and fragile season for every team across the league. I don't think it's wise to simply write everything off and hope the team comes back as a better version of the 2019-20 squad. But it's also not wise to go completely overboard, assume no one bounces back and burn it all to the ground.

You're not moving a big contract at the deadline. With what's available for us to sell we also aren't getting more than mid round picks. Without selling prospects our only valuable asset in the trade market is Scott Laughton. Theres been a ton of Laughton at 50% to the Leafs for Liljegren and that sounds ok. Leafs have 0 shot at re signing him so it could truly be a get an asset than bring him back.
- Tfaehner

You try to move every free agent you have for whatever you can extract. Really that simple.

Judging by what meager returns the Devil's got, selling isn't looking too terribly meaningful.
- Tomahawk

Perhaps in the Flyers case this year, selling may be considered addition by subtraction.

OK, so what is your replacement plan? A tear-down and total rebuild is not going to happen. We all agree that changes are needed, and the teams the Flyers need to compete with next season when the NHL, hopefully, goes back to a normal schedule and games outside the division.

By "more physical", what specifically do you mean? More hits? More fights? Heavier on pucks?

By "faster" what do you mean: Adding more individual speedsters? Or do you mean being less stationary as a team, with better gaps, puck support and feet moving?

BTW, Giroux does more than "put up pretty numbers". You also would have replace the club's top playmaker, one of the most dominant faceoff men in the NHL, someone who can switch back and forth between LW and C without skipping a beat, and someone who, in fact, has been THE catalyst in leading the charge in multiple games the Flyers have managed to win this season.


Want to get rid of Voracek, assuming an actual hockey trade were possible and not just a swapping around of money-for-money? Fine. Suggest a workable deal.

Want a more consistent two-way player? A comparably skilled offensive player who perhaps is a little less playmaker and more of a finisher? Again, suggest something.

I have no problem with the Flyers making a bold move or two by next season. It's needed, agreed. But merely trading just for a trade's sake is counterproductive. Even if it's a temporary step backward in on-paper talent, there has to be corresponding step forward in being consistently tough to play against. It also has to work out cap-wise.

Lastly, it can't bee a total knee-jerk reaction to what has been a very strange and rather precarious and fragile season for every team across the league. I don't think it's wise to simply write everything off and hope the team comes back as a better version of the 2019-20 squad. But it's also not wise to go completely overboard, assume no one bounces back and burn it all to the ground.
- bmeltzer

I'll hang up and listen.....

Judging by what meager returns the Devil's got, selling isn't looking too terribly meaningful.
- Tomahawk

Was it that meager? You got a 1st and a 4th for 2 solid players. I dont think they did that bad.

You try to move every free agent you have for whatever you can extract. Really that simple.
- login

So trade Laughton for a 7th round pick? That simple?

You try to move every free agent you have for whatever you can extract. Really that simple.
- login

Its not that simple.

Pending UFA: Gus, Raffl, Morin, Elliot, Laughton

Trade gus raffl ? What is their value ? Why would anyone take on salary ? Whats the point for a 5th round pick?

Trade Morin? Gave up on a kid who is finally showing promise.

Trade elliot ? Put 10x more pressure on our young potential franchise goalie in Hart who is already struggling and for what benefit a mid rounder?

Laughton is your only trade piece. And hes a good hockey player and leader on this team. Trading him for anything less than a solid return is a mistake we need more talent not less.

Judging by what meager returns the Devil's got, selling isn't looking too terribly meaningful.
- Tomahawk

I certainly wouldn't trade Laughton if it facilitates another trade where he ends up in Pittsburgh al Streit...unless it's for a 1st round pick in the top 15...but no way he gets that return. Just do nothing at this point is the best option.

Franchise is so broken I don't even know where to begin to fix it...the GM, coach and players are all on different planes, let alone pages.

OK, so what is your replacement plan? A tear-down and total rebuild is not going to happen.
- bmeltzer

Why is this not an option? A team bleeds fans with perpetual mediocrity as much as a complete bottoming out. At least with a complete tear down they could get a superstar to sell the fan base at the top of the draft. Yes the possibility exists that they could be Buffalo but they could also be LA, Chicago, Pittsburgh or Washington.

BTW, Giroux does more than "put up pretty numbers". You also would have replace the club's top playmaker, one of the most dominant faceoff men in the NHL, someone who can switch back and forth between LW and C without skipping a beat, and someone who, in fact, has been THE catalyst in leading the charge in multiple games the Flyers have managed to win this season.



I have no problem with the Flyers making a bold move or two by next season. It's needed, agreed. But merely trading just for a trade's sake is counterproductive. Even if it's a temporary step backward in on-paper talent, there has to be corresponding step forward in being consistently tough to play against. It also has to work out cap-wise.

Lastly, it can't bee a total knee-jerk reaction to what has been a very strange and rather precarious and fragile season for every team across the league. I don't think it's wise to simply write everything off and hope the team comes back as a better version of the 2019-20 squad. But it's also not wise to go completely overboard, assume no one bounces back and burn it all to the ground.
- bmeltzer

All that is true yet the flyer are still a floundering team the last 10 years. It isnt about production sometimes it just time to move on. He can clearly still play. Could be the missing link to a team trying to win a cup.

It doesn't need to be burnt to the ground. This team imo clearly needs a new well respected veteran voice. Changing of the guard is needed.

It's not for a lack of effort, but a really telling stat for me was of the 40+ shots the Flyers took Tuesday, G accounted for 0.

I agree on Voracek. He's lost that mojo.
- Pelle31Forever

Voracek has his pros and cons. Last game, he was the one who scored the goal that cut the gap to 2-1 and then, shortly thereafter, set up the one that Gostisbehere scored. In the last game against the Isles, it was Voracek who teed up a perfect pass to Giroux on the game-tying goal. There are times when Voracek gets into "no one's gonna take this puck away from me" mode where he is still very hard to separate from the puck. Other times, that's missing; a superstar like Peter Forsberg was in the aforementioned mode the majority of the time, whereas players the next tier down like Voracek do that periodically.

My biggest disappointment with Jake this season is that, last year, he had perhaps the best two-way season of his Flyers career. It didn't get mentioned much, but he really did find ways to contribute even when he wasn't creating offense. A season ago, he noticeably focused on the back check, staying on his checks and helping get pucks out. Infallible? No. Much better? Yes. Shortened his shifts significantly compared to 2018-19. This year, he's largely reverted.

So trade Laughton for a 7th round pick? That simple?
- MBFlyerfan

so dumb.

Franchise is so broken I don't even know where to begin to fix it...the GM, coach and players are all on different planes, let alone pages.
- eabrenner

This is an overreaction. The worst thing this franchise could do now is overreact to this season. They need to make some changes. They need to bolster the defense. They need to tweak the forwards. They need to add some N/S players that can skate and get to the net. They need to improve special teams. However they don't need a complete breakdown. They have a lot of quality young talent that will get better.

OK, so what is your replacement plan? A tear-down and total rebuild is not going to happen. We all agree that changes are needed, and the teams the Flyers need to compete with next season when the NHL, hopefully, goes back to a normal schedule and games outside the division.

By "more physical", what specifically do you mean? More hits? More fights? Heavier on pucks?

By "faster" what do you mean: Adding more individual speedsters? Or do you mean being less stationary as a team, with better gaps, puck support and feet moving?

BTW, Giroux does more than "put up pretty numbers". You also would have replace the club's top playmaker, one of the most dominant faceoff men in the NHL, someone who can switch back and forth between LW and C without skipping a beat, and someone who, in fact, has been THE catalyst in leading the charge in multiple games the Flyers have managed to win this season.


Want to get rid of Voracek, assuming an actual hockey trade were possible and not just a swapping around of money-for-money? Fine. Suggest a workable deal.

Want a more consistent two-way player? A comparably skilled offensive player who perhaps is a little less playmaker and more of a finisher? Again, suggest something.

I have no problem with the Flyers making a bold move or two by next season. It's needed, agreed. But merely trading just for a trade's sake is counterproductive. Even if it's a temporary step backward in on-paper talent, there has to be corresponding step forward in being consistently tough to play against. It also has to work out cap-wise.

Lastly, it can't bee a total knee-jerk reaction to what has been a very strange and rather precarious and fragile season for every team across the league. I don't think it's wise to simply write everything off and hope the team comes back as a better version of the 2019-20 squad. But it's also not wise to go completely overboard, assume no one bounces back and burn it all to the ground.
- bmeltzer

Unfortunately I don't have a plan. Guess I was making a generalization. I'm not suggesting blowing the entire thing up as the Flyers are the 9th youngest team in the league. I would like the team to get faster and more physical in general. I think we'd all agree that today's game is predicated on puck possession. When I say physical I mean heavier on the puck(winning more puck battles along the boards). I wasn't happy that they let a guy like Pitlick walk in the off season. I get your point about Giroux, but he is getting older and probably needs less of a workload going forward as he just seems to get physically worn down at times. I don't know what the answer is cause I think it's going to be hard to move these contracts(Voracek and JVR to be specific). The Flyers have lots of size, but they play small. Look at Voracek, JVR and Hayes. All big forwards, but they play a small game. The other thing I notice is net front presence. It seems that the Flyers have very few forwards that drive to the net while opposing forwards have no fear of driving the Flyers net. I know the game has changed and you can't beat the hell out of guys in front of your net anymore, but the Flyers D seems way too passive in front of their own net. More physicality is needed at both ends of the rink. Perhaps some of these guys playing for the Phantoms may help in this aspect of the game.....I hope so!

Ultimately I think the flyers get a first for Laughton. He has a contract everyone can afford and most teams would consider resigning him.

Its not that simple.

Pending UFA: Gus, Raffl, Morin, Elliot, Laughton

Trade gus raffl ? What is their value ? Why would anyone take on salary ? Whats the point for a 5th round pick?

Trade Morin? Gave up on a kid who is finally showing promise.

Trade elliot ? Put 10x more pressure on our young potential franchise goalie in Hart who is already struggling and for what benefit a mid rounder?

Laughton is your only trade piece. And hes a good hockey player and leader on this team. Trading him for anything less than a solid return is a mistake we need more talent not less.
- Tfaehner

It is that simple.
Yes you move raffle and gus for whatever the best deal offered (now if nothing offered then not on the GM). The point of a 5th rd pick is easy. Gives you another pick that you can use yourself or include in another trade. Moving Raffle opens up a spot to take a look at others you hope can fill a spot next year.

Hart is always going to have pressure. Nature of the position. Don't buy he would face more pressure. In fact it may provide a level of comfort knowing he will play majority of the games down the stretch. Again a mid rd > then nothing.

I keep Morin though isn't he a RFA?

What's a solid return on Laughton? Unless they have a 100% guarantee to resign him ( I wouldn't anyway) then it is foolish to risk letting him walk for nothing. If they were actually going to make the playoffs then no issue keeping him; however they are not.

This is an overreaction. The worst thing this franchise could do now is overreact to this season. They need to make some changes. They need to bolster the defense. They need to tweak the forwards. They need to add some N/S players that can skate and get to the net. They need to improve special teams. However they don't need a complete breakdown. They have a lot of quality young talent that will get better.
- MJL

Lets say I'll give you the Flyers have talent...why all the regression this season? Covid? Can't explain it all, other teams seem to be handling it ok.

Coaching certainly has to be looked at...I don't think you can fire AV after two weird seasons but clearly their is something missing in the delivery of the message or the receiving of the message. At the very least the assistants should be replaced similarly what Pittsburgh did last season...the ST's are a complete and utter train wreck and there is too much talent for them to execute so poorly.

I don't think a few tweaks get this fixed, I think some big and difficult decisions need to be attempted, because this perpetual mediocrity is far and away worse than a few years of tanking to start over. This current state can't continue.

So trade Laughton for a 7th round pick? That simple?
- MBFlyerfan

we both know he will get more than that. So that is a silly example.

So you rather let him walk or take a 7th rd pick. What do you do?