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Forums :: Blog World :: Bill Meltzer: Wrap: Another Devastating Stretch-Drive Defeat
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DrMidnite
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: False-Positive, Texas
Joined: 12.10.2010

Apr 7 @ 5:51 PM ET
Hire Mike Babcock and have him ask NP to make a list of his teammates, ranked by work ethic.

/s

- Tomahawk


Start doing anonymous peer-reviews and then make them known who gave them and to whom.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Apr 7 @ 5:52 PM ET
It would be substantial compensation I would think.

Seattle is sitting pretty right now with this flat cap. They are going to clean up by taking on unwanted deals

- Just5


Seattle needs to put a team on the ice. The idea that they're going to take on every team's bad contracts for sweeteners, is just not reality. You're right that there are going to be numerous players available due to the cap situation with teams. So why are they going to want to take on 3 more years of Voracek's contract? The Flyers are going to have to expose some young talent to the ED.
Phillywhiteout
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: West Chester, PA
Joined: 08.11.2020

Apr 7 @ 5:55 PM ET
Can we fire the asst. coach that is responsible for coaching the PK?? I mean, the Brooooins are 10 for 20! There is supposed to be this thing called adjustments by coaches. None appear to be forthcoming, so he needs to be shown the door!! Of course, the PP looks about as bad. Don't think I've ever seen a more stagnant PP.....although I guess there was movement(a bowel movement?) on that 3rd period PP when everyone with the exception of Ghost was caught down low as the Brooooins happily skated to the other end to score the winning goal.
DANCER
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 10.30.2019

Apr 7 @ 6:05 PM ET
I'm not advocating for replacing AV. I'm criticizing the job he has done this season.
- MJL
Understand...but I truly believe these assistants whose responsibility is to coach special teams have culpability for those failures. Maybe having three voices who are all former head coaches are two too many.
jd250
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 01.12.2018

Apr 7 @ 6:06 PM ET
Sure you did, multiple times. Including the famous, "all the Flyers young players are what they are" comment. In specific conversations about Farabee, when I said he has the potential to be a 35 goal 70 point player, you said you don't see it and are still on the fence.
- MJL

Wrong again! I did say the Flyers young players, specifically Patrick, Lindblom, Myers and Sanhiem, are what they are .. and you know what, I WAS RIGHT AGAIN!
VilleLeinoShow
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: NJ
Joined: 11.21.2010

Apr 7 @ 6:07 PM ET
Maybe we need to fire people AND trade some core players. Why does it have to be one or the other? Maybe both sides are to blame?
jd250
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 01.12.2018

Apr 7 @ 6:16 PM ET
If the assistants aren't doing something right or are not coaching the players in the right manner, whose responsibility is it to correct that?
- MJL

After some thought this is what I have concluded. This Flyers team can not play the style that AV and his assistants are teaching them. Whether it be defensively with this man on man coverage, or the rotations on the PK, the set up on the PP, the fore checking configurations, etc. These players on this team can't do it consistently; they can do it for 1 period here and there, but rarely entire games and certainly not multiple games in a row.

So the question comes down to, can Fletcher get new players that can play the style AV wants, or can AV teach them a different style that is more suited to their abilities, or does Fletcher need to get a new coach? In my opinion, the Flyers players are simply not good enough and I for one am tired of the coaching carousel that has been with this team over the past decade. Its time to blow this up, trade as many players as you can, and start drafting and developing players that can play the way AV wants them to. In other words, I think its time to go back to formula!
jd250
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 01.12.2018

Apr 7 @ 6:22 PM ET
lets blame the coach and not the team leadership that's been a constant for many years
- 2Real

The leadership is a big part of it. I have no doubt Giroux is giving his all every night, but something is off on this team. The veterans as a whole are not leading enough and the younger players are just following suite towards a downward spiral. They need a change of leadership to start building a winning culture, instead of one that seems to try really hard while waiting for the next shoe to drop!
NC Flyers Fan
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 07.19.2018

Apr 7 @ 6:24 PM ET
Maybe we need to fire people AND trade some core players. Why does it have to be one or the other? Maybe both sides are to blame?
- VilleLeinoShow


Part of the problem is that everyone does share part of the blame, starting with Fletcher. The failure to sufficiently address the vacancy beside Provy had a trickle down effect; add in the circumstances related to the pandemic, and it becomes a case of being unfair to make others pay for your mistake (no matter how hard he tried to get someone) or for rare circumstances. Thus you hear comments about not overreacting to this season’s set of unfortunate results.

I continue to think a coaching change is needed on the PP because of the large sample size. I didn’t think it was as good as it could be in total last season also. However, like I said...Fletcher’s blame share first, and I don’t think the Flyers give up on him so soon.
Phillywhiteout
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: West Chester, PA
Joined: 08.11.2020

Apr 7 @ 6:29 PM ET
After some thought this is what I have concluded. This Flyers team can not play the style that AV and his assistants are teaching them. Whether it be defensively with this man on man coverage, or the rotations on the PK, the set up on the PP, the fore checking configurations, etc. These players on this team can't do it consistently; they can do it for 1 period here and there, but rarely entire games and certainly not multiple games in a row.

So the question comes down to, can Fletcher get new players that can play the style AV wants, or can AV teach them a different style that is more suited to their abilities, or does Fletcher need to get a new coach? In my opinion, the Flyers players are simply not good enough and I for one am tired of the coaching carousel that has been with this team over the past decade. Its time to blow this up, trade as many players as you can, and start drafting and developing players that can play the way AV wants them to. In other words, I think its time to go back to formula!

- jd250
I agree with this assessment although it's not easy to admit. AV needs a swift skating team and the physicality to achieve what he wants to see on the ice. The current Flyers forwards are anything BUT a speedy physical bunch and the one forward that really fit that criteria(Pitlick) was let go. It's very frustrating to watch some of these forwards labor to skate. Last night was a perfect example unfortunately. Came out in snore mode and then turned it on for about 25 minutes(last 5 minutes of first period and second period), and then it was like they had absolutely nothing in the tank for the 3rd period. Have seen this way too many times over the past couple of years(other than that hot streak before the shutdown last year).
login
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 08.21.2020

Apr 7 @ 6:33 PM ET
Flyers had 12 first rd picks and 2 2nd Rd Picks in their lineup last night. 14 of 19 players high picks. How many other non playoff teams have that many? Sabre’s maybe?
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Apr 7 @ 6:34 PM ET
Wrong again! I did say the Flyers young players, specifically Patrick, Lindblom, Myers and Sanhiem, are what they are .. and you know what, I WAS RIGHT AGAIN!
- jd250


With this comment, you're just reinforcing that you aren't right and that you still have the same absurd mistaken idea that players that are in the age groups that those players are, are done developing as players.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Apr 7 @ 6:40 PM ET
After some thought this is what I have concluded. This Flyers team can not play the style that AV and his assistants are teaching them. Whether it be defensively with this man on man coverage, or the rotations on the PK, the set up on the PP, the fore checking configurations, etc. These players on this team can't do it consistently; they can do it for 1 period here and there, but rarely entire games and certainly not multiple games in a row.

So the question comes down to, can Fletcher get new players that can play the style AV wants, or can AV teach them a different style that is more suited to their abilities, or does Fletcher need to get a new coach? In my opinion, the Flyers players are simply not good enough and I for one am tired of the coaching carousel that has been with this team over the past decade. Its time to blow this up, trade as many players as you can, and start drafting and developing players that can play the way AV wants them to. In other words, I think its time to go back to formula!

- jd250


For once we are in agreement and you've finally come around in parts. The team defense has been atrocious all season, yet here they are, still playing man to man coverage. What has the coaching staff changed?
I read Bill's comments that they recently had a practice and the focus of the practice was forechecking drills. Why wasn't the focus on D zone coverage?

As far as the rest of it is concerned, we are not in agreement. It's not time to blow it up. Not at all. The Flyers young players are better than you think they are and are going to get better. Not all of them but most of them. Trying to trade as many players as you can is a foolish idea. One, it won't happen. Two, it doesn't need to happen. They have to make tweaks and add a few players for sure. But a total blow up is not the right plan. It's not even possible.
NC Flyers Fan
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 07.19.2018

Apr 7 @ 6:42 PM ET
Of this youth group, all are 25 or under, only Sanheim has played at least 200 NHL games. Many others have had their development delayed by illness/injuries.


Oskar Lindblom - Drafted 5th rd(138)/2014, games played 166
Travis Sanheim - Drafted 1st rd(17)/2014
Philippe Myers - Undrafted, games played 101
Samuel Morin - Drafted 1st rd(11)/2013, games played 20
Nolan Patrick - Drafted 1st rd(2)/2017, games played 182
Morgan Frost - Drafted 1st rd(27)/2017, games played 22
Peter Richards
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 08.24.2019

Apr 7 @ 6:47 PM ET
It's clear that they waived Gostisbehere not because of displeasure in his play but because they had to sit Hart, Lindblom and Patrick. So they picked a player they knew would clear.
- MJL


Correct. But also a player in moving forward they weee comfortable with him being taken. Tells me enough

Peter Richards
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 08.24.2019

Apr 7 @ 6:51 PM ET
The leadership is a big part of it. I have no doubt Giroux is giving his all every night, but something is off on this team. The veterans as a whole are not leading enough and the younger players are just following suite towards a downward spiral. They need a change of leadership to start building a winning culture, instead of one that seems to try really hard while waiting for the next shoe to drop!
- jd250


Yes. It’s easy to work with them struggling if the wins are there. Two or three players going each night is not enough to shelter them. Have Oscar and patty rotate on off each night. Next year they will be better.

A couple of the others. Yes they have points but I have no been impressed with much this year.

ClaudeFather
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: west haven, CT
Joined: 08.14.2015

Apr 7 @ 6:52 PM ET
Maybe we need to fire people AND trade some core players. Why does it have to be one or the other? Maybe both sides are to blame?
- VilleLeinoShow

I’m with this !
NC Flyers Fan
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 07.19.2018

Apr 7 @ 6:53 PM ET
Here are some of the Flyers top prospects. Are there organizational holes this player can fill? How long until they are ready for prime time? Or could any be used in trade to fill a current roster need?

Cam York - Drafted 1st rd(14)/2019, age 20
Wade Allison - Drafted 2nd rd(52)/2016, age 23
Tyson Foerster - Drafted 1st rd(23)/2020, age 19
Egor Zamula - Undrafted, age 21
Zayde Wisdom - Drafted 4th(94)/2020, age 18
Bobby Brink - Drafted 2nd rd(34)/2019, age 19
Peter Richards
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 08.24.2019

Apr 7 @ 6:57 PM ET
Here are some of the Flyers top prospects. Are there organizational holes this players can fill? How long until they are ready for prime time? Or could any be used in trade to fill a current roster need?

Cam York - Drafted 1st rd(14)/2019, age 20
Wade Allison - Drafted 2nd rd(52)/2016, age 23
Tyson Foerster - Drafted 1st rd(23)/2020, age 19
Egor Zamula - Undrafted, age 21
Zayde Wisdom - Drafted 4th(94)/2020, age 18
Bobby Brink - Drafted 2nd rd(34)/2019, age 19

- NC Flyers Fan


I would add cates who we now don’t have a contract spot for. O’Brien and maybe attard.

Just as others who have a shot at playing in the nhl. Maybe amil too.

Still hoping ratcliffe can turn it around a little. A lot of promise but needs some work


Errs on for goalies.
2Real
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: IT'S GRITTIN TIME, CA
Joined: 07.14.2007

Apr 7 @ 7:02 PM ET
hey guys at least the phils are back on track!
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Apr 7 @ 7:02 PM ET
Of this youth group, all are 25 or under, only Sanheim has played at least 200 NHL games. Many others have had their development delayed by illness/injuries.


Oskar Lindblom - Drafted 5th rd(138)/2014, games played 166
Travis Sanheim - Drafted 1st rd(17)/2014
Philippe Myers - Undrafted, games played 101
Samuel Morin - Drafted 1st rd(11)/2013, games played 20
Nolan Patrick - Drafted 1st rd(2)/2017, games played 182
Morgan Frost - Drafted 1st rd(27)/2017, games played 22

- NC Flyers Fan


They're all what they are now. They won't get any better.
NC Flyers Fan
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 07.19.2018

Apr 7 @ 7:02 PM ET
I would add cates who we now don’t have a contract spot for. O’Brien and maybe attard.

Just as others who have a shot at playing in the nhl. Maybe amil too.

Still hoping ratcliffe can turn it around a little. A lot of promise but needs some work


Errs on for goalies.

- Peter Richards


Yep, I hesitated to list Brink because he doesn’t have a contract spot either. I think the time has come to make some tough decisions because there is simply not room for everyone.

Tomahawk
Ottawa Senators
Location: Driver's Seat: Mitch Marner bandwagon. Grab 'em by the Corsi.
Joined: 02.04.2009

Apr 7 @ 7:03 PM ET
Here are some of the Flyers top prospects. Are there organizational holes this player can fill? How long until they are ready for prime time? Or could any be used in trade to fill a current roster need?

Cam York - Drafted 1st rd(14)/2019, age 20
Wade Allison - Drafted 2nd rd(52)/2016, age 23
Tyson Foerster - Drafted 1st rd(23)/2020, age 19
Egor Zamula - Undrafted, age 21
Zayde Wisdom - Drafted 4th(94)/2020, age 18
Bobby Brink - Drafted 2nd rd(34)/2019, age 19

- NC Flyers Fan


Allison could probably step in right now. York maybe a partial AHL season away. The rest need a bit more time.
Angus4444
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 12.03.2018

Apr 7 @ 7:04 PM ET
Its nuts that Aho is not in this list. Did you noice that Dougie Hamilton did not make it to the top 10 or mentions list among the Dmen? I suspect there were no Carolina personnel among those polled.
- PT21

If you follow lists your a loser. It’s just a platform for opionists who vomit second hand news.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Apr 7 @ 7:05 PM ET
Correct. But also a player in moving forward they weee comfortable with him being taken. Tells me enough
- Peter Richards


I don't know they were comfortable having him taken. I think they realize that they most likely can't protect him in the ED. What does the fact that he played over 20 minutes last game and had the most time on the PP of any defenseman tell you?
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