Wanna blog? Start your own hockey blog with My HockeyBuzz. Register for free today!
 
Forums :: Blog World :: Bill Meltzer: Quick Hits: Sabres 6 - Flyers 1; Phantoms 4 -Hershey 1; York Signed, Marsh
Author Message
BroadSTmayhem
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 10.03.2012

Apr 2 @ 10:43 AM ET
B
Correct. IMO there are definite locker room issues with this group. Is it the youth against the vets? Something clearly isn't right and you will never convince me otherwise; especially with hearing the couturier and ghost comments.

I am not hoping they lose to tank. I hope they lose just for the pure entertainment aspect.

Keep hearing all this talent on the team. So if that is the case then coaching must be the main issue no?

- login


Agree. I brought this up yesterday, too...there is definitely friction within the player trust. I can see where Jake could be a polarizing guy to some of the younger players. We’ve all seen clips of Jake speaking up in the locker room...lots of words, but it’s not like he’s a world beater on the ice. Jake may be a nice dude and humorous at times, but nothing worse than having a teammate that yaps all the time and tells players what they should be doing, and they themself are inconsequential.
PT21
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: 木糠布丁, PA
Joined: 03.04.2008

Apr 2 @ 10:43 AM ET
Agreed. I am mildly pumped to see how far the goalposts moved. On the other hand the sermon will be disappointing. As is tradition.
- mickel25


There will be no goalpost moving. I will essentially give you a cost benefit analysis of keeping Couts based on your answers.

I am an agnostic. I don't do sermons. The church of sports worship belongs to guys like you.
Tomahawk
Location: Driver's Seat: Mitch Marner bandwagon. Grab 'em by the Corsi.
Joined: 02.04.2009

Apr 2 @ 10:49 AM ET
I think TK + Laughton + one of Myers/Sanheim would likely be enough.

I would probably do it.The "real need" to get back to respectability is defense. But Flyers (except for that Briere-Hartnell-Leino line) have historically pooped the bed in the playoffs with their overrated forwards, so there is need for offense to move to true contender status and Eichel is so young.

- PT21


Eichel isn't overrated? People talk about him like he's generational but what I kinda see is more of a Taylor Hall.

Plus he's another (frank)ing ginger.
mickel25
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Morgantown, PA
Joined: 01.21.2011

Apr 2 @ 10:58 AM ET
There will be no goalpost moving. I will essentially give you a cost benefit analysis of keeping Couts based on your answers.

I am an agnostic. I don't do sermons. The church of sports worship belongs to guys like you.

- PT21


I look forward to the cost benefit analysis.
PT21
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: 木糠布丁, PA
Joined: 03.04.2008

Apr 2 @ 11:00 AM ET
Did I pass the Coots test?
- mickel25


No test, my friend, though I am very grateful that you showed the spirit to participate. You and anyone else reading along deserves an answer, and you have given me more than enough to point out essentially, what the implications of your answers are and make my case.

I have however a unexpectedly away-from-computer day today. A North Philadelphia food pantry did not get a certain check through USPS (which is a huge mess). So, have been ordered by my wife to take the new check to them physically (my excuse that I need to post to HB has been summarily dismissed).

I don't use Uber/Septa now, and we don't own a car, which means I have to walk to them and back. A 90 min walk each way.

Having said that, we will be done with this by later today. I will continue posting on this blog, to not mess up any new blog that comes up with stuff not everyone will be interested in.


Here is the summary of the Q and A so far:

1. Estimate the chances of winning the cup in the first 4 years of Couts contract (your answer 8%, JD250 12%. I will go with 12% because the latter is of course a better case for keeping Couts and if I can critique the 12% case, the 8% case is already attacked).

2. Estimate Couts' next contract: 8 years 8.5 mil AAV

3. How much money due you think Couts's intangibes are worth (leadership, ability to mentor players, inspirational value etc etc): Answer: zero, those are perks

4. Based on comparables and Couts' peak level of production, where do you think Couts is likely to produce in years 34-38? Answer: 63 points/season.

5. If we did not resign Couts, and traded him largely for prospects/picks, and made only modest additions to the team (like a Vet D man, no stars) where do you think we would draft on average during what would have been the first 4 years of his contract?
Answer (if you accept): About #7 average over the 4 years.

See ya soon.
login
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 08.21.2020

Apr 2 @ 11:01 AM ET
I think TK + Laughton + one of Myers/Sanheim would likely be enough.

I would probably do it.The "real need" to get back to respectability is defense. But Flyers (except for that Briere-Hartnell-Leino line) have historically pooped the bed in the playoffs with their overrated forwards, so there is need for offense to move to true contender status and Eichel is so young.

- PT21

come one man that is laughable.
PT21
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: 木糠布丁, PA
Joined: 03.04.2008

Apr 2 @ 11:03 AM ET
I look forward to the cost benefit analysis.
- mickel25


Are you aware of the Book Freakonomics?

(https://www.amazon.com/Fr...-Everything/dp/0060731338)

Many of the analyses are about sports. My argument will be very similar.

Hint: The 12% guess has already told me where we expect to finish in the stndings on average with Couts in the line up.

Thanks again.
PT21
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: 木糠布丁, PA
Joined: 03.04.2008

Apr 2 @ 11:06 AM ET
Eichel isn't overrated? People talk about him like he's generational but what I kinda see is more of a Taylor Hall.

Plus he's another (frank)ing ginger.

- Tomahawk


Not generational. But he is essentially a ppg player now on a terrible team. Here I think he averages 85-90 points a season for a good 5-6 years. Think about that.
PT21
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: 木糠布丁, PA
Joined: 03.04.2008

Apr 2 @ 11:10 AM ET
come one man that is laughable.
- login


You are right. Nvm.
SMS4016
Joined: 01.27.2011

Apr 2 @ 11:14 AM ET
Not generational. But he is essentially a ppg player now on a terrible team. Here I think he averages 85-90 points a season for a good 5-6 years. Think about that.
- PT21

Gotta disagree a little. Eichel is generational but maybe of the 3 drafted around the time he was ( Connor Austin Jack) Jack finishes 3rd of that group but must keep in mind the dysfunction of Buffalo and a few early injuries. Eichel in lineup poopty sabres 1st in pp league. Eichel out of lineup in a month they drop to 12th. Jack stays out rest of year they probably drop to close to last.
Bob Habib
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 08.01.2020

Apr 2 @ 11:17 AM ET
If you need to package coots in a package for someone like eichel yes bye bye coots
- SMS4016

How much more valuable is eichel than coots? What more do we need to package for this blockbuster transaction to happen
Bob Habib
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 08.01.2020

Apr 2 @ 11:21 AM ET
Farabee
Provy
Hart

I’m 50/50 on Coots. You can keep him to build around. Lord knows you always need center depth. At the same time if the offer is just too good to pass up I think you have to do the deal. Flyers have a lot of holes to fill.

Everyone else fair game for fair, sensible trades.

- hereticpride

My franchise players right now are

The bee
Provy
Hart
Coots

Outside of those 4 anything is possible, even sanheim and myers and tk.
I'd keep laughton if at all possible too.
Laughton is highly underrated, in my unpopular opinion
Tomahawk
Location: Driver's Seat: Mitch Marner bandwagon. Grab 'em by the Corsi.
Joined: 02.04.2009

Apr 2 @ 11:23 AM ET
Not generational. But he is essentially a ppg player now on a terrible team. Here I think he averages 85-90 points a season for a good 5-6 years. Think about that.
- PT21


His icetime will drop if he ever ends up on a deeper team. He needs like 20-22 mins to just put up that point per game.

Jack's ES P/60 this season is really low for a guy of his alleged caliber. Of forwards who have played over 300mins this season, he ranks lower than 8 Flyers.

Farabee is #10 in the league. Coots is #13. JvR is #12. Jake #59. Claude #61. Hayes #72. Laughts #73. Oskar #151.

Eichel is #179.
wcorvette
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Boynton Beach, FL
Joined: 10.03.2010

Apr 2 @ 11:27 AM ET
I think TK + Laughton + one of Myers/Sanheim would likely be enough.

I would probably do it.The "real need" to get back to respectability is defense. But Flyers (except for that Briere-Hartnell-Leino line) have historically pooped the bed in the playoffs with their overrated forwards, so there is need for offense to move to true contender status and Eichel is so young.

- PT21


Laughton and Sanheim dont have much time on their contracts, anyone Buff would get would have to be locked up so they can hold them captive.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Apr 2 @ 11:34 AM ET
No, not resigning Coots would be a rebuilding move, so we would get young assets back, perhaps even players starting to contribute now. But no significant vets and nothing close to his current caliber of play from any single one of the players in return. Short term, team will be much worse.

Based on your answers, shall we say that it is reasonable that we pick #7 on average across the 4 years? Its better than your top 5 picks scenario, but it also makes your case stronger, because it lowers the cost of keeping him by lowering the cost of high picks foregone.


- PT21


You have to have a support structure around young players. You want to jettison every aging vet. Re-signing Couturier is a no brainer. When do we get to read why re-signing Couturier is illogical? Why are you waffling? Did we seriously have to read through the 5 questions nonsense for this?
SMS4016
Joined: 01.27.2011

Apr 2 @ 11:35 AM ET
How much more valuable is eichel than coots? What more do we need to package for this blockbuster transaction to happen
- Bob Habib

First off I live in Buffalo area and most Sabre fans expect Jack to be traded. And they don’t blame him. He wants out because Buffalo needs a rebuild and he wants no part of it while Connor and Matthews make playoffs. Buffalo has cozens who will be a #1 center. Buffalo is gonna want a center to help replace the loss of Jack and top prospects/players. He won’t come cheap. My opinion to get him would be something like
Coots
Frost
Sanheim or Myers
Some package of picks. A 1st a2nd
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Apr 2 @ 11:38 AM ET
No test, my friend, though I am very grateful that you showed the spirit to participate. You and anyone else reading along deserves an answer, and you have given me more than enough to point out essentially, what the implications of your answers are and make my case.

I have however a unexpectedly away-from-computer day today. A North Philadelphia food pantry did not get a certain check through USPS (which is a huge mess). So, have been ordered by my wife to take the new check to them physically (my excuse that I need to post to HB has been summarily dismissed).

I don't use Uber/Septa now, and we don't own a car, which means I have to walk to them and back. A 90 min walk each way.

Having said that, we will be done with this by later today. I will continue posting on this blog, to not mess up any new blog that comes up with stuff not everyone will be interested in.


Here is the summary of the Q and A so far:

1. Estimate the chances of winning the cup in the first 4 years of Couts contract (your answer 8%, JD250 12%. I will go with 12% because the latter is of course a better case for keeping Couts and if I can critique the 12% case, the 8% case is already attacked).

2. Estimate Couts' next contract: 8 years 8.5 mil AAV

3. How much money due you think Couts's intangibes are worth (leadership, ability to mentor players, inspirational value etc etc): Answer: zero, those are perks

4. Based on comparables and Couts' peak level of production, where do you think Couts is likely to produce in years 34-38? Answer: 63 points/season.

5. If we did not resign Couts, and traded him largely for prospects/picks, and made only modest additions to the team (like a Vet D man, no stars) where do you think we would draft on average during what would have been the first 4 years of his contract?
Answer (if you accept): About #7 average over the 4 years.

See ya soon.

- PT21


So there is going to be no moving of the goal posts? LOL The answers to 3 and 4 were not his answers. They were yours! You can't make this up. Regardless, none of the answers are factual. They are all speculation! LMAO.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Apr 2 @ 11:39 AM ET
Not generational. But he is essentially a ppg player now on a terrible team. Here I think he averages 85-90 points a season for a good 5-6 years. Think about that.
- PT21


Does that make him an elite player?
Tomahawk
Location: Driver's Seat: Mitch Marner bandwagon. Grab 'em by the Corsi.
Joined: 02.04.2009

Apr 2 @ 11:42 AM ET
Does that make him an elite player?
- MJL


If Coots played 20-22 mins per night, got to stay on the ice for the entire PP, and didn't have to do any defensive lifting, he'd outscore Eichel (by a lot).
SMS4016
Joined: 01.27.2011

Apr 2 @ 11:46 AM ET
If Coots played 20-22 mins per night, got to stay on the ice for the entire PP, and didn't have to do any defensive lifting, he'd outscore Eichel (by a lot).
- Tomahawk

Except coots doesn’t have 2 big assets eichel has.
Speed
Offensive skill set of eichel
There’s only 1 player in league that plays the whole 2 minutes of pp. ov
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Apr 2 @ 11:50 AM ET
If Coots played 20-22 mins per night, got to stay on the ice for the entire PP, and didn't have to do any defensive lifting, he'd outscore Eichel (by a lot).
- Tomahawk


Other than age. I'll take Couturier. Who PT21 ignorantly does not understand, is a top center in this league. PT21 is about to post a cost benefit analysis on re-signing Couturier that has nothing to do with hockey.
Scoob
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: love is love
Joined: 06.29.2006

Apr 2 @ 11:53 AM ET
Eichel isn't overrated? People talk about him like he's generational but what I kinda see is more of a Taylor Hall.

- Tomahawk


Same.

When he's unhappy (i.e., on a sucky team) he's invisible. He's got skills. That is undeniable. The attitude is a problem for me.
MBFlyerfan
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Be nice from now on, NJ
Joined: 03.17.2006

Apr 2 @ 11:54 AM ET
Except coots doesn’t have 2 big assets eichel has.
Speed
Offensive skill set of eichel
There’s only 1 player in league that plays the whole 2 minutes of pp. ov

- SMS4016


Their offensive stats aren't as far apart as you would think. Factor in that Coots is a much more complete player.
SMS4016
Joined: 01.27.2011

Apr 2 @ 11:54 AM ET
[quote=MJL]
Actually top center he is not. He’s good. But he’s not a top center.
landros 2
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Centre of universe
Joined: 02.07.2007

Apr 2 @ 11:56 AM ET
First off I live in Buffalo area and most Sabre fans expect Jack to be traded. And they don’t blame him. He wants out because Buffalo needs a rebuild and he wants no part of it while Connor and Matthews make playoffs. Buffalo has cozens who will be a #1 center. Buffalo is gonna want a center to help replace the loss of Jack and top prospects/players. He won’t come cheap. My opinion to get him would be something like
Coots
Frost
Sanheim or Myers
Some package of picks. A 1st a2nd

- SMS4016



Problem I see with that....Coots is a UFA after next season....if that’s the deal why is Coots willing to stay there longer ? And Buffalo doesn’t want a one year rental as the Center piece to a deal.
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26  Next