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Forums :: Blog World :: Bill Meltzer: Wrap: Hart's Turn to Shut Out Sabres
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jd250
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 01.12.2018

Mar 1 @ 2:18 PM ET
The Flyers have to keep getting better....they need only worry about their own game. Two of losses against Boston were games the Flyers deserved a better result. I think the D can play better, I think Hart can be better. There’s still room for this team grow.
- landros 2

Deserved a better result? In what way? The Flyers have either got blown out by the Bruins (twice) or blew third period leads (three times). Nothing was stolen from them as far as I know. If you agree the Flyers need to play better, how can you believe they deserved anything other than what they got?
jd250
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 01.12.2018

Mar 1 @ 2:21 PM ET
Oh wow....
- SuperSchennBros

Oh Wow what? Tell me what Patrick has done to even earn a spot in this lineup once TK comes back. In the last 6 games Patrick has 0 points and 1 shot on goal. Everyone tells me how skilled a forward he is, well he is playing with Hayes and Giroux, pretty good skilled players for a few games and has 0 to show for it. I know we want to believe Patrick is better than this, but again I ask, what has he given you this year that warrants him staying in the lineup?
jd250
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 01.12.2018

Mar 1 @ 2:28 PM ET
Not what i am saying. I only bring the Rangers and Dev's up as an example. The Flyers are clearly a head of them right now in my opinion but they have talent and high end talent. So suggesting the Flyers continue to build through the draft and development while not making any trades actually allows some teams to catch up. In my opinion, if they wait for what we have in the pipe and what we have on the roster to get better it, will not make us contenders, at least not in the next 24 months. So the Flyers could wait but that will allow other teams like the Dev's etc to catch up and you really can't say drafting and our prospects and young guys getting better will make us a contender any time soon. Just from a business perspective that is not a solid plan in my opinion.

I think the Flyers have an advantage over a good number of teams right now, were not elite but just short of that contender status. So either way you slice it, in my opinion, the Flyers will make a trade, either in season or this off-season to position themselves to go for it in the next 12-36 months. You know I don't like selling assets or overpaying but I support Fletcher, he has shown he won't overpay or sacrifice the future. So if he does get Ekholm I wont be surprised, I wont be disappointed as long as it was a good hockey trade with a plan for expansion and a cup run in the near future.

- wcorvette

I agree with you here. The reason you stock pile picks and prospects is to make trades when the right player becomes available that fills a need on your team. No one should expect every prospect to 1. stay with the organization that drafted them and 2. achieve their potential in the first place. You evaluate the best you can what the ceiling of each prospect you have is and then you make decisions to keep or trade as opportunities come around. The key is you have to keep drafting well so you keep that pipeline replenished. But every great team has a set of home grown players augmented by outside acquisitions. Fletcher has been good so far, I hope he continues.
jd250
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 01.12.2018

Mar 1 @ 2:37 PM ET
were not saying different things, short of the idea that I believe there will be a trade and probably multiple trades in the next 6 months, they will be made with an eye on the cup. I don't want to overpay but if fletcher does a small overpay I will understand. Coming into this season I would have said that Lindblom and Patrick were untouchable now for me they are not, as long as you get full value back, something that is a part of the reason the Flyers become favorites. That will have to be a series of moves in all likelihood. JVR, I agree, you would have to sell high. I am a fan of JVR, I think he earned his current contract, without injuries I think he has given fair value in return. With how he is playing, only 2 years left, there would be a taker, a team that sees a PP front man as a real need
- wcorvette

I like JVR too, the JVR we are seeing right now, not the JVR of last year or even the year prior. The problem I have with JVR is I find myself waiting for him to go back to the player he was; I just have no confidence he will play this way all season. I hope I'm wrong of course, but if I can trade him to get back $7M/season in cap space, I would do it.
jd250
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 01.12.2018

Mar 1 @ 2:39 PM ET
Going on 15 hours of arguing. A record maybe ? The Flyers did win two in a row by shutout right ?
- Angus4444

Actually I think today has been quite civil compared to past days
wcorvette
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Boynton Beach, FL
Joined: 10.03.2010

Mar 1 @ 2:49 PM ET
Oh Wow what? Tell me what Patrick has done to even earn a spot in this lineup once TK comes back. In the last 6 games Patrick has 0 points and 1 shot on goal. Everyone tells me how skilled a forward he is, well he is playing with Hayes and Giroux, pretty good skilled players for a few games and has 0 to show for it. I know we want to believe Patrick is better than this, but again I ask, what has he given you this year that warrants him staying in the lineup?
- jd250



so you haven't see enough from Farabee to say what he is but you have seen enough from Patrick? Ok Farabee is playing well where Patrick is just playing. But how many games have they played since the Covid break? How many games did Patrick play his new position with G and Hayes? You do know Hayes and G are possession players right? That fact alone will limit Patrick's touches, Hayes alone goes for long skates for half of a shift sometimes. What exactly has Bunnaman done to deserve your staunch support? Patrick coming back after all this time, without camp, then a covid stop and all of the other crap, I think your just a little hard on Patrick and to loving with Bunnaman.

Should they let Patrick be 4C, I don't mind, does having Bunnaman over Patrick in the lineup make the Flyers a better team? Does it have the potential to help with future upside? All that and would I care if they sat Patrick to watch one? I would not.

just my opinion
landros 2
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Centre of universe
Joined: 02.07.2007

Mar 1 @ 2:50 PM ET
Deserved a better result? In what way? The Flyers have either got blown out by the Bruins (twice) or blew third period leads (three times). Nothing was stolen from them as far as I know. If you agree the Flyers need to play better, how can you believe they deserved anything other than what they got?
- jd250



Those two blown 3rd period leads are games where by they played better in my view then Boston...I think the Bruins played like poop and were gifted wins. They out played the Flyers for only 10-15 minutes the entire game but still won. I think the Flyers can play with the Bruins and it’s a hurdle they are going to have to clear. There are always games that you may not get the deserved result, hell the Flyers have had few this year where by I thought they were out played but won. I think it’s obvious the Bruins have the Flyers number right now but we do get three more games against them and they should be extremely motivated in those game. True in a seven game series I don’t like the Flyers chances right today ...but a lot can happen between now and seasons end. The Flyers have guys that can be better, there’s room for this team to grow. To me it’s a process and this team is not quite clicking on all cylinders yet. But I think they are getting better. I also think they could use some re-enforcements via the trade route.
wcorvette
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Boynton Beach, FL
Joined: 10.03.2010

Mar 1 @ 2:52 PM ET
I like JVR too, the JVR we are seeing right now, not the JVR of last year or even the year prior. The problem I have with JVR is I find myself waiting for him to go back to the player he was; I just have no confidence he will play this way all season. I hope I'm wrong of course, but if I can trade him to get back $7M/season in cap space, I would do it.
- jd250



at some point they can move him, now? no way, as long as they have a chance to win you keep him, unless someone really wants him.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Mar 1 @ 3:01 PM ET
were not saying different things, short of the idea that I believe there will be a trade and probably multiple trades in the next 6 months, they will be made with an eye on the cup. I don't want to overpay but if fletcher does a small overpay I will understand. Coming into this season I would have said that Lindblom and Patrick were untouchable now for me they are not, as long as you get full value back, something that is a part of the reason the Flyers become favorites. That will have to be a series of moves in all likelihood. JVR, I agree, you would have to sell high. I am a fan of JVR, I think he earned his current contract, without injuries I think he has given fair value in return. With how he is playing, only 2 years left, there would be a taker, a team that sees a PP front man as a real need
- wcorvette


It would have to be a really good deal for me to give up Lindblom. Before his illness, he was on his way to being a special player. Not in a superstar sense but in the sense of being the kind of player you win with. He may not get back to that level but I think he needs a full year to do so.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Mar 1 @ 3:04 PM ET
I agree with you here. The reason you stock pile picks and prospects is to make trades when the right player becomes available that fills a need on your team. No one should expect every prospect to 1. stay with the organization that drafted them and 2. achieve their potential in the first place. You evaluate the best you can what the ceiling of each prospect you have is and then you make decisions to keep or trade as opportunities come around. The key is you have to keep drafting well so you keep that pipeline replenished. But every great team has a set of home grown players augmented by outside acquisitions. Fletcher has been good so far, I hope he continues.
- jd250


Nobody has disputed that to my knowledge. The debate is really about whether a player is the right player or not.
wcorvette
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Boynton Beach, FL
Joined: 10.03.2010

Mar 1 @ 3:09 PM ET
It would have to be a really good deal for me to give up Lindblom. Before his illness, he was on his way to being a special player. Not in a superstar sense but in the sense of being the kind of player you win with. He may not get back to that level but I think he needs a full year to do so.
- MJL


agree, he deserves a chance, I think anyone who would trade for him would know that and the Flyers would get full value. That would have to be a piece that the Flyers needed.
Angus4444
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 12.03.2018

Mar 1 @ 3:12 PM ET
Actually I think today has been quite civil compared to past days
- jd250

Can Patrick be sent down to the Phantoms ? Maybe get some confidence.
jd250
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 01.12.2018

Mar 1 @ 3:13 PM ET
so you haven't see enough from Farabee to say what he is but you have seen enough from Patrick? Ok Farabee is playing well where Patrick is just playing. But how many games have they played since the Covid break? How many games did Patrick play his new position with G and Hayes? You do know Hayes and G are possession players right? That fact alone will limit Patrick's touches, Hayes alone goes for long skates for half of a shift sometimes. What exactly has Bunnaman done to deserve your staunch support? Patrick coming back after all this time, without camp, then a covid stop and all of the other crap, I think your just a little hard on Patrick and to loving with Bunnaman.

Should they let Patrick be 4C, I don't mind, does having Bunnaman over Patrick in the lineup make the Flyers a better team? Does it have the potential to help with future upside? All that and would I care if they sat Patrick to watch one? I would not.

just my opinion

- wcorvette

I appreciate your opinion. I don't love Bunnaman, but I think he is doing a good job in that 4th line center role. I think moving Patrick down to that role on the team would do more harm than good, both to the team and to the player. I have posted in the past that I wanted to give Patrick every opportunity to get back to his level and maybe take the next step, however moving Patrick to the 4th line does the opposite IMO. Now that the Flyers are healthy (I hope I don't jinx them) I want them to play their best available players in the roles that fit them the best. And right now I believe the best thing for the Flyers and Patrick is for him to sit and work to earn his way back into the lineup when the opportunity arises.
jd250
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 01.12.2018

Mar 1 @ 3:14 PM ET
Can Patrick be sent down to the Phantoms ? Maybe get some confidence.
- Angus4444

They would have to waive him first and risk losing him. He needs to stay with the big club.
jd250
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 01.12.2018

Mar 1 @ 3:18 PM ET
It would have to be a really good deal for me to give up Lindblom. Before his illness, he was on his way to being a special player. Not in a superstar sense but in the sense of being the kind of player you win with. He may not get back to that level but I think he needs a full year to do so.
- MJL

I agree with you here, now granted its against the Sabres, but even so Lindblom is starting to show more offensive confidence, making slick passes, getting some shots on goals and being in the right areas on the ice. I think if Lindblom can be a consistent top 9 forward that is good value for where he was drafted and all the crap he has had to go through.
cdearth23
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Wilkes-Barre, PA
Joined: 08.06.2015

Mar 1 @ 3:18 PM ET
Throwing this out there again.

For those that believe we won't win a cup with G.

The Flyers CAN win the Cup with Giroux as captain.

The Flyers CANNOT win the Cup with G being relied on to be the top scorer.

We will not be a contender if we are relying on G being our top guy. That's why the development of Patty, TK, Lindblom, Farabee, etc. is so important. All of those guys could be 25-30 goal scorers. G can get his 20/60 and we don't suffer.

Discuss...
jd250
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 01.12.2018

Mar 1 @ 3:19 PM ET
Throwing this out there again.

For those that believe we won't win a cup with G.

The Flyers CAN win the Cup with Giroux as captain.

The Flyers CANNOT win the Cup with G being relied on to be the top scorer.

We will not be a contender if we are relying on G being our top guy. That's why the development of Patty, TK, Lindblom, Farabee, etc. is so important. All of those guys could be 25-30 goal scorers. G can get his 20/60 and we don't suffer.

Discuss...

- cdearth23

As discussed in the past, I believe the Flyers can win a cup with G as captain, as long as they have a strong leadership group and augments his quiet and "lead by example" leadership style.
Ftown19125
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Joined: 09.17.2013

Mar 1 @ 3:24 PM ET
Throwing this out there again.

For those that believe we won't win a cup with G.

The Flyers CAN win the Cup with Giroux as captain.

The Flyers CANNOT win the Cup with G being relied on to be the top scorer.

We will not be a contender if we are relying on G being our top guy. That's why the development of Patty, TK, Lindblom, Farabee, etc. is so important. All of those guys could be 25-30 goal scorers. G can get his 20/60 and we don't suffer.

Discuss...

- cdearth23


what about with JVR as our top guy?
jd250
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 01.12.2018

Mar 1 @ 3:24 PM ET
Those two blown 3rd period leads are games where by they played better in my view then Boston...I think the Bruins played like poop and were gifted wins. They out played the Flyers for only 10-15 minutes the entire game but still won. I think the Flyers can play with the Bruins and it’s a hurdle they are going to have to clear. There are always games that you may not get the deserved result, hell the Flyers have had few this year where by I thought they were out played but won. I think it’s obvious the Bruins have the Flyers number right now but we do get three more games against them and they should be extremely motivated in those game. True in a seven game series I don’t like the Flyers chances right today ...but a lot can happen between now and seasons end. The Flyers have guys that can be better, there’s room for this team to grow. To me it’s a process and this team is not quite clicking on all cylinders yet. But I think they are getting better. I also think they could use some re-enforcements via the trade route.
- landros 2

To beat a team like the Bruins you have to play 60 minutes or more of great hockey. You can't take a period off against them. I think many of us would agree the biggest problem this Flyers team has, besides Covid, is they struggle to play 60 minutes of good hockey. Even the game yesterday against Buffalo, the Flyers were out chanced 14-6 in the 3rd period. They got away with it against the Sabres but they won't get away with it against a team like the Bruins. So IMO it doesn't matter if you have stretches where you outplay your opponent, if you don't play 60 minutes of solid hockey against a really good team, you deserve what you get.
Bob Habib
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 08.01.2020

Mar 1 @ 3:31 PM ET
That’s my biggest thing, there is going to be moves after the Seattle draft that we can address the D
- ClaudeFather

I'm leigjt bx I'm at work but we are on the same page here. There is no lost season happening. The kids are getting better and getting more experience this season and that is priceless. But after the draft I expect a lot of wheeling and dealing to happen but with the expansion and flat cap most GMs hands are tied, and rightfully so.
I like ekholm.. don't get me wrong I'd like to see him inkornage and black but he isn't the perfect fit. I want the perfect fit and then run with it while our window is open, and I know that will be post ED
wcorvette
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Boynton Beach, FL
Joined: 10.03.2010

Mar 1 @ 3:34 PM ET
I appreciate your opinion. I don't love Bunnaman, but I think he is doing a good job in that 4th line center role. I think moving Patrick down to that role on the team would do more harm than good, both to the team and to the player. I have posted in the past that I wanted to give Patrick every opportunity to get back to his level and maybe take the next step, however moving Patrick to the 4th line does the opposite IMO. Now that the Flyers are healthy (I hope I don't jinx them) I want them to play their best available players in the roles that fit them the best. And right now I believe the best thing for the Flyers and Patrick is for him to sit and work to earn his way back into the lineup when the opportunity arises.
- jd250



I appreciate what you are saying, I just dont think they are a better team with Patrick sitting and Bunnaman playing. I counted at least 3 times last where he didnt get the puck deep. I saw 2 times where it appeared he should get the shot through and he didn't. I believe the wingers make that line. I also believe you could put patrick there and they would have a chance to generate O, they could earn more ice time as a unit. You could also pair Patty up with TK coming back. Patrick actually has some nice backchecks yesterday and the Saturday game. Yes he is supposed to be creating but I think you under sell the idea that Hayes and G have the puck, they both have some O risk in their game, it only makes sense Patrick doesn't have the puck and he is more back check conscious.
shekkie
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Perkasie, PA
Joined: 07.05.2007

Mar 1 @ 3:35 PM ET
Going on 15 hours of arguing. A record maybe ? The Flyers did win two in a row by shutout right ?
- Angus4444


15 hours?

from my POV, 13 years +
cdearth23
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Wilkes-Barre, PA
Joined: 08.06.2015

Mar 1 @ 3:39 PM ET
what about with JVR as our top guy?
- Ftown19125





Wow, right? JVR and Farabee are playing well together. Keep it rolling. That's what we hoped for when we signed him.

As long as G isn't relied on to score and be "the guy" then we are in good shape. If G is simply a supporting player, that means we are a really good team.

I still think that is 1-2 seasons away.
NC Flyers Fan
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 07.19.2018

Mar 1 @ 3:41 PM ET

I am really excited about playing the Penguins 3x this week! Hardly anything more delightful than a win against the Pens, and we get 3 shots.

6 points and a 12 point swing! Oh boy.


3 of 6 -bare minimum

4 of 6 -sturdy

5 of 6 -standing tall

6 of 6 -flying high


MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Mar 1 @ 3:46 PM ET
Can Patrick be sent down to the Phantoms ? Maybe get some confidence.
- Angus4444


Realistically, no.
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