There's 56 games this season...52 would be just about a ppg...

I mean...you constantly bring up that trading Horny and his 34 year old battered body is mistake, and I mostly agree for this season anyway, but want to trade Geno 8 months after a MVP season. What do you think would happen if he was on another team with a proper offseason, next season?
- MattStrat

"pace" (per 82 game season)

That's fine, I'll take that $9.5M bet. Remember that Crosby and Letang, who are showing signs of slowing down, will be another year older, too. You're either a buyer or a seller or the Minnesota Wild.

Not sure where you are coming to this conclusion. He has never had a goalie play more than 50 games... he has always had timeshares.

He has played his cards right with Jarry. He will get a little break now but he has never had to carry a full workload so better to test him early.
- MacPatty

That's only because he overplays his starter and then he gets injured or plays so bad he gets benched.

That's only because he overplays his starter and then he gets injured or plays so bad he gets benched.
- Tojo.

Amazing how long of a leash you get with two Cups, isn't it?

Could they get a 2nd line center in the off-season?
- 668710

I'm not sure who might be available. But if a 2C comes on the market, you are going to overpay to get him and that's if he chooses you. See Matt Duchene.

I don't agree with that. Based on what you said in the first paragraph, other teams would be interested in Malkin and pay a good price for him this year. With his salary, we could pick up a 2C and a winger. That's just the start of what the Pens could do to become legit contenders.

We can push all of our chips in and go for it or we can sell assets now to facilitate a quicker rebuild. The middle option of doing nothing and dying a slow death is the worst option, IMO, but certainly not the only option.
- Hockey66

I am guessing we disagree about what you'd get for Malkin and what it would cost to add a 2C. See the other post I quoted here. Unless you develop one or can cone up with a good trade for one, adding a replacement 2C for Malkin just means another bad contract.

I'm not sure who might be available. But if a 2C comes on the market, you are going to overpay to get him and that's if he chooses you. See Matt Duchene.


I am guessing we disagree about what you'd get for Malkin and what it would cost to add a 2C. See the other post I quoted here. Unless you develop one or can cone up with a good trade for one, adding a replacement 2C for Malkin just means another bad contract.
- Tojo.

The obvious trade is POJ and Malkin for Turcotte and Byfield.

We would have had the same problems the last 2 years with Horny, ie, bad power play, horny injuries, and his inability to play on top 2 lines...the coach wasn't deploying him properly and our captain did not like playing with him...we would have the same problems with horny on the team,, he would just be another yr older and slower, it was time to.move on. I just wish we would have gotten a younger, bigger, and faster replacement, ie big pants hockey player...
- PENS1989

PP was only worse when Sullivan took Hornqvist off it. They scored twice as often when Hornqvist was on the PP as opposed to off it.

2 late 2nds are pretty worthless. Look up those players and I'll bet you've never heard of them. Pretty minor trade regardless.

Edit: Never mind, one was Tyler Bertuzzi haha. The other was Noah Rod. No joke. However, a whole lotta junk before and after Bertuzzi and no telling if the Pens take Bertuzzi there.
- Hockey66

That's the 2 edged sword with trading picks. Statistically, you have much better odds getting a return on your investment trading picks for established players because so many don't work out. But you still need young, cheap players to get over the edge in a cap world and if you trade away your picks you have less chances to find them.

Not sure where you are coming to this conclusion. He has never had a goalie play more than 50 games... he has always had timeshares.

He has played his cards right with Jarry. He will get a little break now but he has never had to carry a full workload so better to test him early.
- MacPatty

You are right, Sullivan has played Jarry properly up to here. I would have given DeSmith two starts on this trip, but it has turned out fine for the Pens. No matter what today's outcome is, this is a successful road trip.

The overall picture is in the last nine games, all against Washington and the Islanders we are 6-3. The teams we are competing for the final playoff spot.

Malkin has 5 points in his last 5 games. You were throwing Tanger under the bus with Geno this whole season up until the past week, but now Tanger has 14 points in 18 games. Geno is 12 in 18. They've been rusty and they've been winded at times because of the F'd up offseason/lack of proper training....and for guys who've had the same routine every year for 15+ season this will truly F with some.

Fancy stat wise he was great last night. Go check it out. He and McCann are at the top of HDSC%, xGF% and CF% and he had apple in a win.

Anyone who plays a lot of hockey or even any sports that are very physical will know that you will get in better shape as you play more games, you will shake more rust off as you continue to play games and you will get better conditioning (which leads to better hands and mental decisions) as you play more games.

Will he end up with the same kind of season that was MVP caliber that was less than a calendar year ago? probably not, but barring any injury he'll most likely be a point per game player...and a point per game center, let alone one of the captains of the team and pillars the franchise has been rested on for over 15 years, is worth a 9.5 mill cap hit.
- MattStrat

Yea finally getting Zucker off Geno's line helped. I actually liked McCann up there. It sucks how Zucker got removed from the line though. Can Zuck play RW? Obviously we don't have to worry about that for now.

"pace" (per 82 game season)

That's fine, I'll take that $9.5M bet. Remember that Crosby and Letang, who are showing signs of slowing down, will be another year older, too. You're either a buyer or a seller or the Minnesota Wild.
- Hockey66

The wild have no where near the talent level of Sid or Geno though... Basically Koivu and Parise is a completely different thing from Sid and Geno

PP was only worse when Sullivan took Hornqvist off it. They scored twice as often when Hornqvist was on the PP as opposed to off it.
- Tojo.

I’m going to be bull-headed about this. Yes, Hornqvist helped the PP when he was on it. The only way he was effective was if pucks where getting to the net. Case in point, it doesn’t matter if he’s there if they aren’t getting pucks on net.

Yes, they got a PP goal yesterday, but still over the last few games we’ve seen them largely revert back looking for the perfect play.

I think the PP can be just as good without Horn if they keep going with the trend they were on of moving around more and shooting.

Yea finally getting Zucker off Geno's line helped. I actually liked McCann up there. It sucks how Zucker got removed from the line though. Can Zuck play RW? Obviously we don't have to worry about that for now.
- 668710

McCaan played a solid north/south game last night. Zucker kept falling into that sideways passing game.....always deferring to Geno. I think it has a real opportunity to work if he keeps playing that way.

McCaan played a solid north/south game last night. Zucker kept falling into that sideways passing game.....always deferring to Geno. I think it has a real opportunity to work if he keeps playing that way.
- madmike71

I wonder, 668710 brought up, if Zucker has had any success at RW. For some goal scoring wingers it can benefit them, but for some forwards in general it can throw their whole flow off.

It may force him to shoot more.

Yeah, I put more stock into +/- than I do the "hits" stat.
- Hockey66

Weird that anyone puts any stock into either of them really.

Weird that anyone puts any stock into either of them really.
- j.boyd919

I don't know if it's just me, but I notice people bringing up +/- far more recently.

Vegas doesn't know how to trade, and also didn't they need to move Schmidt to get under the cap?
- 668710

This trade was a cap dump. Not a reflection of Schmidt’s worth. Although his play in van merits only a 3rd if they traded him now haha

McCaan played a solid north/south game last night. Zucker kept falling into that sideways passing game.....always deferring to Geno. I think it has a real opportunity to work if he keeps playing that way.
- madmike71

I bet zucker passes back to geno on McCann goal if that was him, keeping the game 3-2 and potentially losing. I’ve read zucker plays both wings. Either way of Kap or zuck are playing lower down the lineup that’s a good thing. Don’t really care which, that’s basically a wash IMO

You are right, Sullivan has played Jarry properly up to here. I would have given DeSmith two starts on this trip, but it has turned out fine for the Pens. No matter what today's outcome is, this is a successful road trip.

The overall picture is in the last nine games, all against Washington and the Islanders we are 6-3. The teams we are competing for the final playoff spot.
- Thunderbolt

Yeah, this is why I'm having a hard time understanding everyone wanting to fire Sully. Given a lineup with no depth, an incredible amount of injuries and Geno not showing up ready to play this season, the Pens are in pretty damn good shape.

The Pens have played 4 games against the Rangers and none against the Devils or Sabres. The Caps who are leading the division have played those teams 9 times. The Islanders have 8 against those teams. The Flyers 7 times. The Pens are actually in great shape. This upcoming Flyers series will tell us a lot about this team.

Yeah, this is why I'm having a hard time understanding everyone wanting to fire Sully. Given a lineup with no depth, an incredible amount of injuries and Geno not showing up ready to play this season, the Pens are in pretty damn good shape.

The Pens have played 4 games against the Rangers and none against the Devils or Sabres. The Caps who are leading the division have played those teams 9 times. The Islanders have 8 against those teams. The Flyers 7 times. The Pens are actually in great shape. This upcoming Flyers series will tell us a lot about this team.
- MacPatty

They win inspite of him, not because of him.