Could he play this way and be a plus 8? I don't think so. Again, it's not a perfect measure on its own... Crosby is playing great and is only a +1.
- MacPatty

Crosby's plus minus has magically improved since ERod stopped playing on his line.

Pretty much agree with all of that other than watching Malkin in his current state makes my heart hurt so I'd rather he try to get back to his game somewhere else and come back later for a reunion tour. Also, Letang is playing pretty well and we don't have anyone who can replace him (unless we trade him or Malkin for a 1RD) because Marino is not looking so great.

This feels like dying a slow death.
- Hockey66

Change your name to Hockey68

They'd be better with Hornqvist over Matheson this year. But at least MM is playing pretty well and is younger, so long-term they may win this trade which isn't something I thought I'd say. So while I'd still reverse it if I could, I can't call it a bad trade right now.
- Tojo.

I mean, it's the last best year of the window. You don't trade Horny in that situation. So many of our current problems are Hornyless-related.

Crosby's plus minus has magically improved since ERod stopped playing on his line.
- Tojo.

This make me chuckle and shake my head.

I mean, it's the last best year of the window. You don't trade Horny in that situation. So many of our current problems are Hornyless-related.
- Hockey66

Pens definitely are not Horny enough

Change your name to Hockey68
- 668710

Why?

Pretty positive Desmith will start tonight.
- 668710

We have 16 games in 28 days, DeSmith needs to play more.

McCann played a good game, as I said before he may have been playing thru an injury. If he shows he can play with Malkin that will open up moves for Sullivan. Though I don't know which left wing cam move over to right and drop Kapanen down.

Pretty much agree with all of that other than watching Malkin in his current state makes my heart hurt so I'd rather he try to get back to his game somewhere else and come back later for a reunion tour. Also, Letang is playing pretty well and we don't have anyone who can replace him (unless we trade him or Malkin for a 1RD) because Marino is not looking so great.

This feels like dying a slow death.
- Hockey66

If he has a better off-season, Malkin can come back stronger next year. And he'll still be a PP weapon for a while. His days of being one of the league's best might be done. He may even need to consider a move to wing soon.

Dying a slow death is where we're headed regardless of trading Malkin. If we aren't competing for Cups, I'd rather see him play his 1000th game here and chase 500 goals.

I mean, it's the last best year of the window. You don't trade Horny in that situation. So many of our current problems are Hornyless-related.
- Hockey66

Yeah I agreed with taking the trade back, just not worst trade of the Crosby-Malkin era. Plenty of worse ones. MM may end up being a good player and a needed PMD for us.

Why?
- Hockey66

Because your dying alive lol

We have 16 games in 28 days, DeSmith needs to play more.
- Thunderbolt

Agree, this has always been an issue for Sully. He overplays his starter.

If he has a better off-season, Malkin can come back stronger next year. And he'll still be a PP weapon for a while. His days of being one of the league's best might be done. He may even need to consider a move to wing soon.

Dying a slow death is where we're headed regardless of trading Malkin. If we aren't competing for Cups, I'd rather see him play his 1000th game here and chase 500 goals.
- Tojo.

Could they get a 2nd line center in the off-season?

If he has a better off-season, Malkin can come back stronger next year. And he'll still be a PP weapon for a while. His days of being one of the league's best might be done. He may even need to consider a move to wing soon.

Dying a slow death is where we're headed regardless of trading Malkin. If we aren't competing for Cups, I'd rather see him play his 1000th game here and chase 500 goals.
- Tojo.

I don't agree with that. Based on what you said in the first paragraph, other teams would be interested in Malkin and pay a good price for him this year. With his salary, we could pick up a 2C and a winger. That's just the start of what the Pens could do to become legit contenders.

We can push all of our chips in and go for it or we can sell assets now to facilitate a quicker rebuild. The middle option of doing nothing and dying a slow death is the worst option, IMO, but certainly not the only option.

Yeah I agreed with taking the trade back, just not worst trade of the Crosby-Malkin era. Plenty of worse ones. MM may end up being a good player and a needed PMD for us.
- Tojo.

Some have turned out worse like the Brassard trade but that doesn't make it a bad trade. The premise of the Horny trade was absurd and given what Horny is doing now and what we're not doing now, I think you can judge the trade now. I don't care if Matheson becomes a good 2LD in 2-3 years when the window is sealed shut.

I mean, it's the last best year of the window. You don't trade Horny in that situation. So many of our current problems are Hornyless-related.
- Hockey66

We would have had the same problems the last 2 years with Horny, ie, bad power play, horny injuries, and his inability to play on top 2 lines...the coach wasn't deploying him properly and our captain did not like playing with him...we would have the same problems with horny on the team,, he would just be another yr older and slower, it was time to.move on. I just wish we would have gotten a younger, bigger, and faster replacement, ie big pants hockey player...

Because your dying alive lol
- 668710

Oh, right, good call haha

Some have turned out worse like the Brassard trade but that doesn't make it a bad trade. The premise of the Horny trade was absurd and given what Horny is doing now and what we're not doing now, I think you can judge the trade now. I don't care if Matheson becomes a good 2LD in 2-3 years when the window is sealed shut.
- Hockey66

Doug Murray for 2 2nds was a pretty bad one.

We would have had the same problems the last 2 years with Horny, ie, bad power play, horny injuries, and his inability to play on top 2 lines...the coach wasn't deploying him properly and our captain did not like playing with him...we would have the same problems with horny on the team,, he would just be another yr older and slower, it was time to.move on. I just wish we would have gotten a younger, bigger, and faster replacement, ie big pants hockey player...
- PENS1989

I'll agree that the coach and the staff is the biggest problem here. So fire those chumps and keep Horny. He is killing it in Florida so it's not a Horny problem. He doesn't have to play on the top line to be successful. He is older and slower now in Florida and killing it (and also not injured, while the guy they traded for was injured for a long time, go figure).

Yes, I agree with staying ahead of the curve, but the timing was horrendous and done so without a backup plan and only added a position where we have the biggest glut. Completely (frank)ing stupid. And how Sully still has a job is beyond me.

Doug Murray for 2 2nds was a pretty bad one.
- 668710

2 late 2nds are pretty worthless. Look up those players and I'll bet you've never heard of them. Pretty minor trade regardless.

Edit: Never mind, one was Tyler Bertuzzi haha. The other was Noah Rod. No joke. However, a whole lotta junk before and after Bertuzzi and no telling if the Pens take Bertuzzi there.

I'll agree that the coach and the staff is the biggest problem here. So fire those chumps and keep Horny. He is killing it in Florida so it's not a Horny problem. He doesn't have to play on the top line to be successful. He is older and slower now in Florida and killing it (and also not injured, while the guy they traded for was for a long time).

Yes, I agree with staying ahead of the curve, but the timing was horrendous and done so without a backup plan and only added a position where we have the biggest glut. Completely (frank)ing stupid. And how Sully still has a job is beyond me.
- Hockey66

I agree we do miss his element of the game and the.coaches constant mismanagement of assets, Ian Cole, Reaves, Guddy, etc...

Pretty much agree with all of that other than watching Malkin in his current state makes my heart hurt so I'd rather he try to get back to his game somewhere else and come back later for a reunion tour. Also, Letang is playing pretty well and we don't have anyone who can replace him (unless we trade him or Malkin for a 1RD) because Marino is not looking so great.

This feels like dying a slow death.
- Hockey66

Malkin has 5 points in his last 5 games. You were throwing Tanger under the bus with Geno this whole season up until the past week, but now Tanger has 14 points in 18 games. Geno is 12 in 18. They've been rusty and they've been winded at times because of the F'd up offseason/lack of proper training....and for guys who've had the same routine every year for 15+ season this will truly F with some.

Fancy stat wise he was great last night. Go check it out. He and McCann are at the top of HDSC%, xGF% and CF% and he had apple in a win.

Anyone who plays a lot of hockey or even any sports that are very physical will know that you will get in better shape as you play more games, you will shake more rust off as you continue to play games and you will get better conditioning (which leads to better hands and mental decisions) as you play more games.

Will he end up with the same kind of season that was MVP caliber that was less than a calendar year ago? probably not, but barring any injury he'll most likely be a point per game player...and a point per game center, let alone one of the captains of the team and pillars the franchise has been rested on for over 15 years, is worth a 9.5 mill cap hit.

Malkin has 5 points in his last 5 games. You were throwing Tanger under the bus with Geno this whole season up until the past week, but now Tanger has 14 points in 18 games. Geno is 12 in 18. They've been rusty and they've been winded at times because of the F'd up offseason/lack of proper training....and for guys who've had the same routine every year for 15+ season this will truly F with some.

Fancy stat wise he was great last night. Go check it out. He and McCann are at the top of HDSC%, xGF% and CF% and he had apple in a win.

Anyone who plays a lot of hockey or even any sports that are very physical will know that you will get in better shape as you play more games, you will shake more rust off as you continue to play games and you will get better conditioning (which leads to better hands and mental decisions) as you play more games.

Will he end up with the same kind of season that was MVP that was less than a calendar year ago? probably not, but barring no injury he'll most likely be a point per game player...and a point per game center, let alone one of the captains of the team and pillars the franchise as been rested on for over 15 years, is worth a 9.5 mill cap hit.
- MattStrat

Well, that's what I said and I was told that Malkin is (frank)ed for the rest of the season because he never got his pre-season training in. So I said, ok, trade him then. Regardless of stats, he still looks like crap and is still making really dumb decisions leading to turnovers.

As for how Malkin does from here on out, I'll wager he is closer to a 52 point pace rather than an 82 point pace.

With regard to the other stuff you mention, it sounds like you are ok with dying a slow death for sentimental reasons. I'm not. Difference of opinion.

Well, that's what I said and I was told that Malkin is (frank)ed for the rest of the season because he never got his pre-season training in. So I said, ok, trade him then. Regardless of stats, he still looks like crap and is still making really dumb decisions leading to turnovers.

As for how Malkin does from here on out, I'll wager he is closer to a 52 point pace rather than an 82 point pace.

With regard to the other stuff you mention, it sounds like you are ok with dying a slow death for sentimental reasons. I'm not. Difference of opinion.
- Hockey66

There's 56 games this season...52 would be just about a ppg...

I mean...you constantly bring up that trading Horny and his 34 year old battered body is mistake, and I mostly agree for this season anyway, but want to trade Geno 8 months after a MVP season. What do you think would happen if he was on another team with a proper offseason, next season?

Agree, this has always been an issue for Sully. He overplays his starter.
- Tojo.

Not sure where you are coming to this conclusion. He has never had a goalie play more than 50 games... he has always had timeshares.

He has played his cards right with Jarry. He will get a little break now but he has never had to carry a full workload so better to test him early.

Not sure where you are coming to this conclusion. He has never had a goalie play more than 50 games... he has always had timeshares.

He has played his cards right with Jarry. He will get a little break now but he has never had to carry a full workload so better to test him early.
- MacPatty

Are injuries a factor here? Its never felt like he splits goalies evenly to me, Ive been wrong before though.