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Forums :: Blog World :: Mike Augello: Leafs sloppy and sleepy in loss to Senators; Battle of Ontario, Part Deux
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Canada Cup
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: This world is just a veil and the face you wear is not your own., ON
Joined: 07.06.2007

Jan 16 @ 2:45 PM ET
According to Elliot Friedman, part of the negotiations for Vesey and Thornton was that the Leafs couldn't offer them much money, but they would be given an opportunity to start the season on the top 2 lines.

Is it true? I dunno.

But so far, it's the best explanation I've heard for Thornton on line 1.

- Atomic Wedgie


The other explanation was more about them wanting Hyman on the third line with Mik and Kerfoot and then sub Hyman in and out. Alternatively they could put Robertson up and move Joe to the 4th line with Barabanov out. To be honest, I got disgusted early and didn’t watch all of last night’s game. After the first 10 minutes, didn’t see much good at all although the 3rd line looked good for a while.
21peter
Atlanta Thrashers
Location: Peter I Island
Joined: 11.18.2014

Jan 16 @ 2:46 PM ET
Seriously, this team is so talented, they don't even need to work hard.
- Atomic Wedgie

With Thornton and Vesey in the top6, they're bound to win the Cup
fifty__missions
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Burkie's Rented Barn, ON
Joined: 02.12.2013

Jan 16 @ 2:46 PM ET
I don’t know... while his offensive numbers have dropped Chara has still been pretty consistent in his own end

I liked the Thornton signing... I think the problem more than anything is that he’s long past his first line days and Keefe doesn’t seem to see it

- Dozzer

That's exactly my point, dozzer. I'm perfectly fine with the signing of Thornton...but the first line assignment is (frank)ing ridiculous and making Keefe look like an amateur.
dmnted
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Space for Rent
Joined: 08.30.2006

Jan 16 @ 2:46 PM ET
I didn't see your comment.

secondly I never blamed Andersen, I just said he played bad which he did, the D played bad too. Next.

- Santo_44


Yeah would been nice if they took the body a little more often than stick checking their opponents
Canada Cup
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: This world is just a veil and the face you wear is not your own., ON
Joined: 07.06.2007

Jan 16 @ 2:47 PM ET
Johnny Bower.
- Atomic Wedgie


Wasted his talents on his recording career
Santo_44
Toronto Maple Leafs
Joined: 10.20.2014

Jan 16 @ 2:47 PM ET
I don’t know... while his offensive numbers have dropped Chara has still been pretty consistent in his own end

I liked the Thornton signing... I think the problem more than anything is that he’s long past his first line days and Keefe doesn’t seem to see it

- Dozzer

I think there is a strong argument that guys like Matthews and Marner together shouldn't have much of a production drop playing with lesser players, if any at all.

They want a strong 3rd line and the theory is you get more value out of your team if you balance out the team.

Like when Matthews played with Brown and Hyman as rookies...AM's production barely dropped then when he was put with Marner or Nylander while the 2nd and 3rd lines benefited more from having better players on it. AM doesn't need Marner and Hyman. But the 3rd line is a lot better with Hyman on it.
dmnted
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Space for Rent
Joined: 08.30.2006

Jan 16 @ 2:48 PM ET
Huh? I can see you’re a bit perturbed with Santo, but I’m not trying to stoke anything here. When a coach inserts a player into the top 6, than someone clearly thinks he should. Someone else mentioned it in a lineup, so I’m not really sure what I should be stopping here?

I see you edited the stop it, so I appreciate that. Personally, I think he shouldn’t be in the top 6, but then again I only flicked on the Leafs games for maybe 2 or 3 periods and don’t have the full picture.

- RickJames77



yup, I concur as well
Santo_44
Toronto Maple Leafs
Joined: 10.20.2014

Jan 16 @ 2:49 PM ET
Yeah would been nice if they took the body a little more often than stick checking their opponents
- dmnted

For sure it was a rough outing for the both of them, the theme the past year is neither are helping eachother out.

I'd like someone to tell me one goalie who has made the NHL only making saves that aren't his fault....They are all wearing suits or holding a hammer now.
winsix
Season Ticket Holder
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Henry Hudson's Fairchild 24 South Porcupine
Joined: 04.03.2016

Jan 16 @ 2:51 PM ET
Seriously, this team is so talented, they don't even need to work hard.
- Atomic Wedgie

Outstanding accurate point. The Leafs do have to figure out how to work hard, the other part is much more difficult to figure out. For example which is more likely to be accomplished - Marner figures out how to be more dilligent and work harder or Auston Watson figures out how to elevate his hockey ability and leads the Sens in scoring.
Dozzer
Referee
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow since I’m way up high
Joined: 09.15.2010

Jan 16 @ 2:52 PM ET
That's exactly my point, dozzer. I'm perfectly fine with the signing of Thornton...but the first line assignment is (frank)ing ridiculous and making Keefe look like an amateur.
- fifty__missions


Yeah big time... I hope Keefe doesn’t wait too long to shake up that top line... I still wouldn’t mind seeing Nylander and Marner flipped either.... never really understood why that was changed in the first place tbh

Santo_44
Toronto Maple Leafs
Joined: 10.20.2014

Jan 16 @ 2:54 PM ET
Yeah big time... I hope Keefe doesn’t wait too long to shake up that top line... I still wouldn’t mind seeing Nylander and Marner flipped either.... never really understood why that was changed in the first place tbh
- Dozzer

Marner and Matthews should be able to play with Rich Clune and still be just as affective.
Zezel
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: God Leafs Satan The Oneness, ON
Joined: 02.28.2011

Jan 16 @ 2:56 PM ET
If you were somewhere else you’d be less annoying
- Canada Cup


Less annoying to us at least.
Dozzer
Referee
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow since I’m way up high
Joined: 09.15.2010

Jan 16 @ 2:57 PM ET
I think there is a strong argument that guys like Matthews and Marner together shouldn't have much of a production drop playing with lesser players, if any at all.

They want a strong 3rd line and the theory is you get more value out of your team if you balance out the team.

Like when Matthews played with Brown and Hyman as rookies...AM's production barely dropped then when he was put with Marner or Nylander while the 2nd and 3rd lines benefited more from having better players on it. AM doesn't need Marner and Hyman. But the 3rd line is a lot better with Hyman on it.

- Santo_44


Oh I get the argument and there is the added concept of having someone like Thornton there will help to calm the younger stars down in tough situations... but something isn’t working there... so I guess the question is how long do they try to hang onto the idea?

And who knows... all this talk may be moot... maybe the loss last night was exactly what they needed... a reminder that any NHL team is a good (frank)ing hockey team regardless of the amount of all star talent... and not taking any team lightly is still as important as ever
Dozzer
Referee
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow since I’m way up high
Joined: 09.15.2010

Jan 16 @ 2:58 PM ET
Marner and Matthews should be able to play with Rich Clune and still be just as affective.
- Santo_44


Agreed.... however “should be” and actually doing it are two different things tho
dmnted
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Space for Rent
Joined: 08.30.2006

Jan 16 @ 2:59 PM ET
Yeah big time... I hope Keefe doesn’t wait too long to shake up that top line... I still wouldn’t mind seeing Nylander and Marner flipped either.... never really understood why that was changed in the first place tbh
- Dozzer


I'm for it as well. JT output more with him on his line. Still could happen as Keefer had
JT AM MM out there last night.
Santo_44
Toronto Maple Leafs
Joined: 10.20.2014

Jan 16 @ 3:00 PM ET
Oh I get the argument and there is the added concept of having someone like Thornton there will help to calm the younger stars down in tough situations... but something isn’t working there... so I guess the question is how long do they try to hang onto the idea?

And who knows... all this talk may be moot... maybe the loss last night was exactly what they needed... a reminder that any NHL team is a good (frank)ing hockey team regardless of the amount of all star talent... and not taking any team lightly is still as important as ever

- Dozzer


I think they deserve longer than 2 games....and I'll say this. Thornton is not the reason that line hasn't been good, that is a ridiculous take. AM and Marner should be able to produce with anyone. Jumbo is never going to carry or drive that line.

AM and Marner should be great 95% of the time and Thornton will be a passenger, setting up Matthews for a few backdoor passes here and there. Wether that's Robertson, Simmonds, Anderson or whoever it all doesn't matter unless AM and Marner carry their weight.

I believe it will work because Matthews and Marner are too good for it to not work. Leafs need 3 full lines, they struggled with that in playoffs.
Aetherial
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Has anyone discussed the standings today?
Joined: 06.30.2006

Jan 16 @ 3:01 PM ET
Agreed.... however “should be” and actually doing it are two different things tho
- Dozzer


Yes, and there is the problem. more than 25% of your cap is tied up in 2 players who are doing less than nothing in the offensive zone, hurting you in the defensive zone and not really giving a poop while doing it.
Steven_Seagull
Joined: 03.03.2016

Jan 16 @ 3:01 PM ET
Tavares-Matthews-Nylander
Robertson-Dubois-Hyman
Mikheyev-Kerfoot-Simmonds
Thornton-Boyd-Vesey


dmnted
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Space for Rent
Joined: 08.30.2006

Jan 16 @ 3:02 PM ET
Oh I get the argument and there is the added concept of having someone like Thornton there will help to calm the younger stars down in tough situations... but something isn’t working there... so I guess the question is how long do they try to hang onto the idea?

And who knows... all this talk may be moot... maybe the loss last night was exactly what they needed... a reminder that any NHL team is a good (frank)ing hockey team regardless of the amount of all star talent... and not taking any team lightly is still as important as ever

- Dozzer


after a 3 game loosing streak
Santo_44
Toronto Maple Leafs
Joined: 10.20.2014

Jan 16 @ 3:02 PM ET
Agreed.... however “should be” and actually doing it are two different things tho
- Dozzer

Well that's my argument. We shouldnt be looking at changing Jumbo to Hyman for that line to work.

Its all on AM and Marner.

Also Hyman isnt a scrub anymore, he used to be a meh 3rd liner and that worked with AM but he can now actually help drive a line. He is almost wasted playing on that line too much.
Dozzer
Referee
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow since I’m way up high
Joined: 09.15.2010

Jan 16 @ 3:02 PM ET
I'm for it as well. JT output more with him on his line. Still could happen as Keefer had
JT AM MM out there last night.

- dmnted


Well like I mentioned I just hope Keefe doesn’t sit on his hands too long before making changes if things don’t start clicking soon.

Any lineup changes tonight? Is Campbell getting the start?
Arctic_AARDVARK
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Split rock, Nipigon River., ON
Joined: 07.24.2011

Jan 16 @ 3:04 PM ET
Tavares-Matthews-Nylander
Robertson-Dubois-Hyman
Mikheyev-Kerfoot-Simmonds
Thornton-Boyd-Vesey



- Steven_Seagull

Dozzer
Referee
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow since I’m way up high
Joined: 09.15.2010

Jan 16 @ 3:05 PM ET
I think they deserve longer than 2 games....and I'll say this. Thornton is not the reason that line hasn't been good, that is a ridiculous take. AM and Marner should be able to produce with anyone. Jumbo is never going to carry or drive that line.

AM and Marner should be great 95% of the time and Thornton will be a passenger, setting up Matthews for a few backdoor passes here and there. Wether that's Robertson, Simmonds, Anderson or whoever it all doesn't matter unless AM and Marner carry their weight.

I believe it will work because Matthews and Marner are too good for it to not work. Leafs need 3 full lines, they struggled with that in playoffs.

- Santo_44


I hope you’re right.... because I agree 100% on the having 3 good lines

Thought.... Simmonds has looked good and his skating has been strong... would you consider flipping him and Thornton?
Leafsmart
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Fredericton, N.B.
Joined: 12.18.2013

Jan 16 @ 3:06 PM ET
So now that Hyman works so well on the top two lines , the plan is to move him to the third line......ok...
Steven_Seagull
Joined: 03.03.2016

Jan 16 @ 3:06 PM ET

- Arctic_AARDVARK



You know you love it too
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