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Forums :: Blog World :: Michael Stuart: August Draft Happenings
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SENS-sational
Ottawa Senators
Location: vancouver, BC
Joined: 02.27.2011

Aug 12 @ 2:45 PM ET
I heard rangers wanna move lundquist and make room for a pietroangelo type D. Maybe they dont wanna picks in return and only want roster players. Would be crazy if they didnt want it. I say sens take lundquist off their hands to land #1 plus more
Torontosensfan
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 08.03.2019

Aug 12 @ 2:54 PM ET
Vantel just suggested 3,5 brannstrom and thomoson for laffy on the canucks board. Thoughts?
- neem55


lol so ridiculous
so give up 2 of our top young d prospects. plus the chance at 2 elite players for a slightly more elite player. hard no
Trilla
Ottawa Senators
Location: ON
Joined: 06.02.2013

Aug 12 @ 3:04 PM ET
People really need to give up on the whole 'consensus' thing... it neither exists or matters outside of TSN-world. The only thing that does matter is the New York Rangers' GM and scouting team, and what direction they think will make them a better hockey team. If they believe a high-end C is what need, then they may use the value of Lafreniere to achieve that goal. Or it's quite possible that they really do feel that Byfield is going to be the best player of the draft... we've already seen multiple examples in recent years of teams bypassing the supposed "consensus BPA" within the top-5 picks to select a highly-ranked C... including Barkov over Drouin/Jones, Dubois over Puljujarvi, Kotkaniemi over Tkachuk, and Hayton over Zadina. But at the end of the day, what Bob MacKenzie and the other 30 teams in the league think is irrelevant... the Rangers are going to do what every other team does, and follow their own draft lists based on their own prospect assessment and evaluation.
- khawk


-Of course there’s such thing as consensus. Crosby, OV, Matthews, Kane, Stamkos (to name a few) were considered the best players in their draft classes.

-Also, can you please remind me when the last time, a team that was selecting 1st overall, past up on a player that was considered the best in their class?

-The Rangers are more likely to trade out of that spot (which is still unlikely ), then draft a guy who, since last season wasn’t even considered the best player in this draft. At the beginning of the year, I actually mentioned that Raymond was closer to the 2 spot due to his worlds success and his overall game at the time.

But hey, I hope for our sake, they DO select Byfield, and hope the Kings get so throwed off, they stick with Stutzle (because they give him a “promise” to draft him).

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neem55
Vancouver Canucks
Joined: 02.02.2012

Aug 12 @ 3:14 PM ET
lol so ridiculous
so give up 2 of our top young d prospects. plus the chance at 2 elite players for a slightly more elite player. hard no

- Torontosensfan

This is more or less exactly what i said.
Trilla
Ottawa Senators
Location: ON
Joined: 06.02.2013

Aug 12 @ 3:25 PM ET
Keep 3 and 5

Take the best talent available regardless of position.

For me that would be:
Stutzle or Byfield - assuming Laffy goes # 1 and LA picks one of the two

At 5 - go with another forward - Raymond/Rossi - let Drysdale slide - lots of established and prospecys in the pipeline - Chabot, Thompson, Brannstrom

- Revised12


I think everyone is in agreement regarding who the sens should select at #3 based on LAs move.

#5 though. Their really is a split amongst whether it should be a f or d.

Again, I’ve said in the past that I believe Dmen are the most coveted players due to the difficulty of the position. Look at the impact of Hughes and Makar right now. We also have to set realistic expectations for our current D prospects because most here believe JBD and LT are top 4 or something.

That’s not to say they won’t be, but most prospects don’t live up to the hype.

Next year there could be 5-6 dmen selected in the top 10, so like you said, the Sens could potentially find themselves with a franchise dman in that class if they pass up on Drysdale. That’s also with the assumption räty doesn’t come their way lol


HenryHockey
Season Ticket Holder
Detroit Red Wings
Location: Gwinn, MI
Joined: 01.26.2020

Aug 12 @ 4:00 PM ET
NY WILL NOT PICK BYFIELD AT #1

However if they want Byfield they would trade #1 to LA for #2 and another asset and LA would pick Laff, as they have Zegres coming up.
HenryHockey
Season Ticket Holder
Detroit Red Wings
Location: Gwinn, MI
Joined: 01.26.2020

Aug 12 @ 4:10 PM ET
Most here say grab best forwards available at 3 and 5.....I concur.
Pick a D with the Isles 1st, Sanderson may still be there. Wallinder looks intriguing here!
Sens Writer
Location: Vancouver, BC
Joined: 08.19.2013

Aug 12 @ 4:29 PM ET
-Of course there’s such thing as consensus. Crosby, OV, Matthews, Kane, Stamkos (to name a few) were considered the best players in their draft classes.
-Also, can you please remind me when the last time, a team that was selecting 1st overall, past up on a player that was considered the best in their class?

- Trilla

Sure, but consensus doesn't mean that literally every single person agrees, and people aren't necessarily idiots if they dispute the consensus opinion. Plus, I'd actually argue that the majority of drafts don't have nearly the same level of indisputable consensus that you're suggesting, including:

1999 - Stepan/D.Sedin/H.Sedin (limited consensus)
2000 - DiPietro/Heatley (limited consensus)
2001 - Kovalchuk/Spezza (limited consensus)
2002 - Nash/Lehtonen/Bouwmeester (limited consensus, #1 pick traded)
2003 - Fleury/Staal (limited consensus)
2006 - Johnson/Staal/Toews (limited consensus)
2009 - Tavares/Hedman (limited consensus)
2010 - Hall/Seguin (called the Taylor/Tyler draft for a reason)
2011 - Nugent-Hopkins/Landeskog (limited consensus)
2013 - Mackinnon/Barkov/Drouin/Jones (limited consensus)
2014 - Ekblad/Reinhart (limited consensus)
2017 - Hischier/Patrick (limited consensus)

Even some of the cases you identified as obvious examples weren't really as clear--cut as you make them out to be at the time... including Ovechkin/Malkin and Stamkos/Doughty. But hey, if your scouting team agrees with the consensus, then go ahead and make the pick. My point is that any team who thinks Byfield might fit into their long-term plans better than Lafreniere isn't wrong just because there's consensus that Lafreniere will likely be picked 1st overall. That said, if that team has the #1 pick, they would be wise to consider trading down to gain the additional benefit of what might be made available by a team that values Lafreniere above anyone else in draft.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Aug 12 @ 5:15 PM ET
I'm glad that someone else noticed that... Werenski is 6'2/210, Jones is 6'4/210, and both have proven to be very tenacious players. Drysdale is 5'11/170 soaking wet, with a few rocks in his pockets. And while he may become an excellent offensive defenceman, that doesn't mean he'll be able to "shutdown" anyone... let alone the likes of Matthews/Tavares.

The idea of the Rangers trading down to get Byfield is a very interesting one... I'd say Dorion would almost certainly offer the #3/NYI picks if that would actually get the deal done. The real question is what else the Rangers might want instead. I don't think Chabot/Tkachuk are in the discussion, but maybe the #3 overall pick plus a more NHL-ready former 1st round pick, like Brannstrom, Norris, Thomson, or Bernard-Docker? Or might there be a deal possible for the Senators to take on Lundqvist's final year at $8.5AAV vs. $5.5M actual dollars? Which, in turn, could free the Rangers up to take a serious run at someone like Pietrangelo as a UFA?

Probably not, of course... but there are some very interesting possibilities on the table.

- khawk


I think you might have hit on the a formula. The Sens can take on all of Lundqvist's cap hit while (I believe) the Rangers can pay up to 50% of the actual dollar cost without any charge against their cap. So Ottawa gets Lafreniere and Lunqvist. Rangers get Byfield, the 21st pick and a serious shot at Pietrangelo.
AlfieisKing
Ottawa Senators
Location: Canada, ON
Joined: 11.05.2007

Aug 12 @ 7:43 PM ET
Vantel just suggested 3,5 brannstrom and thomoson for laffy on the canucks board. Thoughts?
- neem55

Lol get the fckkk out of here. I wouldn't trade the 3 & 5th pick for Laf. What a joke.

And I'm not just saying that because I'm a sens fan.
AlfieisKing
Ottawa Senators
Location: Canada, ON
Joined: 11.05.2007

Aug 12 @ 8:21 PM ET
Do the Ottawa Senators HAVE to protect Nikita Zaitsev? Bobby Ryan? Erik Brannstrom? Josh Norirs? Drake Batherson?

I'm talking about the Seattle expansion
SENS-sational
Ottawa Senators
Location: vancouver, BC
Joined: 02.27.2011

Aug 12 @ 8:41 PM ET
Lol get the fckkk out of here. I wouldn't trade the 3 & 5th pick for Laf. What a joke.

And I'm not just saying that because I'm a sens fan.

- AlfieisKing



You wouldnt and most people wouldnt either but it's the paranoia of PD doing it. He better not (frank) this up.
Barrykerr1
Joined: 08.06.2014

Aug 12 @ 10:03 PM ET
Drysdale is not Jones, not even close.........Ottawa has PLENTY of good young D prospects....they need forwards
- sensarmy_11


It will be hard for Ottawa to screw up at number 3 and 5 in such a deep draft, possibility the best in history. The Senators need help at forward and defense so they should definitely take the BPA. The only top player who worries me is Drysdale, small defensemen that excel in junior have a much harder time in the NHL. I would be happy with them taking 2 elite forwards.
SENS-sational
Ottawa Senators
Location: vancouver, BC
Joined: 02.27.2011

Aug 12 @ 11:21 PM ET
I think sens can take lundquist off rangers for #1 and some. I think Henrik would be nice in ottawa for 1 year. They have the money why not have an experience veteran goalie.
GrimmdaGoalie
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 01.07.2016

Aug 12 @ 11:38 PM ET
I think sens can take lundquist off rangers for #1 and some. I think Henrik would be nice in ottawa for 1 year. They have the money why not have an experience veteran goalie.
- SENS-sational


I'd be okay with a 5th overall, Isles pick and Nilsson for 1st overall and Lundqvist.
SENS-sational
Ottawa Senators
Location: vancouver, BC
Joined: 02.27.2011

Aug 13 @ 1:53 AM ET
I'd be okay with a 5th overall, Isles pick and Nilsson for 1st overall and Lundqvist.
- GrimmdaGoalie




That would be epic 1 and 3 😍😍😍😍
AlfieisKing
Ottawa Senators
Location: Canada, ON
Joined: 11.05.2007

Aug 13 @ 1:55 AM ET
I'd be okay with a 5th overall, Isles pick and Nilsson for 1st overall and Lundqvist.
- GrimmdaGoalie

To Ottawa
Lundvquist
1st overall

To NY Rangers
5th overall (Marco Rossi or Jamie Drysdale)
25th~ overall
Nilsson

I think the trade would HAVE to involve the 3rd. Then it COULD work (in theroy / value) but not like they would agree to it just because it may make sense. Still I like the rumor talk since that's the purpose of the site lol
AlfieisKing
Ottawa Senators
Location: Canada, ON
Joined: 11.05.2007

Aug 13 @ 2:07 AM ET
Fair trade

To Ottawa
1st overall pick (LW Alexis Lafrienere)

To NY Rangers
3rd overall pick (C Quinton Byfield)
25th overall pick (NYI)
33rd overall pick (OTT)
Alex Formenton
AlfieisKing
Ottawa Senators
Location: Canada, ON
Joined: 11.05.2007

Aug 13 @ 3:48 AM ET
You wouldnt and most people wouldnt either but it's the paranoia of PD doing it. He better not (frank) this up.
- SENS-sational
Ya I highly highly doubt he does that. There's maybe a 0.5% chance
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Aug 13 @ 7:55 AM ET
I really don't think the Rangers will deal the #1 pick. But, I do believe there will be lots of chatter. Montreal will be in the middle of the chatter, they have a deep prospect pool. But they don't have a top pick and, so, it simply will not work for them. LA has some strong prospects plus the #2 pick. LA will be part of the discussion.

I don't see the Rangers answering the phone unless the caller is prepared to take Lundqvist as part of a package. Rangers would not want a goalie coming back. They have two outstanding young tenders that appear to be NHL ready. Georgiev (RFA) is getting ready for a big pay raise.

Talk (chatter) about trading the #1 is great for business, especially sports radio and other media. But, it is a huge headache for a GM like Jeff Gordon. Even if he believes Byfield is the better pick, he is putting his job on the line. Imagine if the Lafreniere pick goes to another team and the kid lives up to expectations and wins the Calder, Ranger fans would be outraged.

However, if Lafreniere sticks with the Rangers and if he wins the Calder, his first year cap hit including bonus will be in the range of $4m. Either way Rangers are getting deep into the weeds without moving Lundqvist, trading Georgiev etc.

In the end there will be a lot of chatter. But on draft day Rangers will take Lafreniere, LA will take Byfield, Ottawa gets Stutzle, Detroit takes Drysdale and Ottawa picks Rossi at 5.
sensarmy_11
Location: NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Aug 13 @ 8:33 AM ET
I think sens can take lundquist off rangers for #1 and some. I think Henrik would be nice in ottawa for 1 year. They have the money why not have an experience veteran goalie.
- SENS-sational


You guys are ignoring the fact that Hank has a full NMC, and why the hell would he ever waive that to come to Ottawa from New York.

It’s nice to dream, but that’s all it is unfortunately.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Aug 13 @ 11:08 AM ET
You guys are ignoring the fact that Hank has a full NMC, and why the hell would he ever waive that to come to Ottawa from New York.

It’s nice to dream, but that’s all it is unfortunately.

- sensarmy_11


My assumption is that Lundqvist only accepts a trade if it meets two conditions: he gets to play and he is paid in full. I think the fact that the Rangers have floated the idea that John Davidson and Lundqvist have met to discuss his future suggests to me that the table is being set for him to move on from the Rangers.

Rangers desperately need that cap space.


Torontosensfan
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 08.03.2019

Aug 13 @ 11:47 AM ET
I'm glad that someone else noticed that... Werenski is 6'2/210, Jones is 6'4/210, and both have proven to be very tenacious players. Drysdale is 5'11/170 soaking wet, with a few rocks in his pockets. And while he may become an excellent offensive defenceman, that doesn't mean he'll be able to "shutdown" anyone... let alone the likes of Matthews/Tavares.

The idea of the Rangers trading down to get Byfield is a very interesting one... I'd say Dorion would almost certainly offer the #3/NYI picks if that would actually get the deal done. The real question is what else the Rangers might want instead. I don't think Chabot/Tkachuk are in the discussion, but maybe the #3 overall pick plus a more NHL-ready former 1st round pick, like Brannstrom, Norris, Thomson, or Bernard-Docker? Or might there be a deal possible for the Senators to take on Lundqvist's final year at $8.5AAV vs. $5.5M actual dollars? Which, in turn, could free the Rangers up to take a serious run at someone like Pietrangelo as a UFA?

Probably not, of course... but there are some very interesting possibilities on the table.

- khawk


I'm well aware of the difference in stature in these guys. but I think their effectiveness in leafs series was speed, puck control and mobility then it was punishing the laffs forwards scott Stevens style

they got the puck out of their end quickly and effectively, led the rush alot of times but recovered defensively.

to me our 3 biggest needs are 1c / rw depth and rd depth.

which is biggest need? hopefully we address all 3

RD
we love how jbd / lassi are developing, but not guaranteed anything from them in nhl. if we assume branstrom plays his strong side. pretty empty cupboards there on Rd. (jaros zaitsev zub!?)

RW
similar situation - bobby/brown/bath. beyond that Davidson? abramov on off wing?

1C
a few possible options in system already, but looks like these guys will top out at 2/3C (white norris brown pinto)

guess that 3 pick really dictates the 5 pick. if we're left with stutzle at 3, (which already boosts a ridiculously deep LW ' duke brady formenton balcers Paul) then do you address RW with raymond, 1C with rossi or RD with drysdale. obviously these choices are effected by wings at 4.

going to be some tough decisions for dorion and crew to say the least. we have to hit it out of the park on this draft.

let's hope this 3 pick 1st round draft goes MUCH better then the 2011 draft (zibby not included)
Sens Writer
Location: Vancouver, BC
Joined: 08.19.2013

Aug 13 @ 12:35 PM ET
Fair trade

To Ottawa
1st overall pick (LW Alexis Lafrienere)

To NY Rangers
3rd overall pick (C Quinton Byfield)
25th overall pick (NYI)
33rd overall pick (OTT)
Alex Formenton

- AlfieisKing

That's in no way, shape, or form a fair trade. Lafreniere isn't Lindros, and the last two times times the #1 overall pick was actually traded were in 2002 and 2003, and nothing even close to that level of compensation was involved. It's also highly relevant that in both cases, a key motivation for the trade was that the team with the #1 overall pick believed or had assurances that the player they really wanted would be available at #3.

2002 - Florida traded the #1 overall pick (Nash) to Columbus, in exchange for the #3 overall pick (Bouwmeester), and the right to switch 1st round picks with Columbus again in the 2003 draft, which at the time was already being touted as one of the best drafts in NHL history.

2003 - Florida traded #1 overall pick (Fleury) to Pittsburgh, along with a 3rd round pick in exchange for the #3 overall pick (Horton), and a 2nd round pick.

Now those trades don't really look all that great now, and I don't doubt that more value would have to go the other way than what the Panthers got in either of these scenarios. However, giving up the #3 overall pick, another 1st round pick, a 2nd round pick that is virtually another late 1st round pick, and a very high-quality NHL-ready prospect that was one of the best scorers in the AHL is a serious over-payment.
Trilla
Ottawa Senators
Location: ON
Joined: 06.02.2013

Aug 13 @ 12:41 PM ET
Sure, but consensus doesn't mean that literally every single person agrees, and people aren't necessarily idiots if they dispute the consensus opinion. Plus, I'd actually argue that the majority of drafts don't have nearly the same level of indisputable consensus that you're suggesting, including:

1999 - Stepan/D.Sedin/H.Sedin (limited consensus)
2000 - DiPietro/Heatley (limited consensus)
2001 - Kovalchuk/Spezza (limited consensus)
2002 - Nash/Lehtonen/Bouwmeester (limited consensus, #1 pick traded)
2003 - Fleury/Staal (limited consensus)
2006 - Johnson/Staal/Toews (limited consensus)
2009 - Tavares/Hedman (limited consensus)
2010 - Hall/Seguin (called the Taylor/Tyler draft for a reason)
2011 - Nugent-Hopkins/Landeskog (limited consensus)
2013 - Mackinnon/Barkov/Drouin/Jones (limited consensus)
2014 - Ekblad/Reinhart (limited consensus)
2017 - Hischier/Patrick (limited consensus)

Even some of the cases you identified as obvious examples weren't really as clear--cut as you make them out to be at the time... including Ovechkin/Malkin and Stamkos/Doughty. But hey, if your scouting team agrees with the consensus, then go ahead and make the pick. My point is that any team who thinks Byfield might fit into their long-term plans better than Lafreniere isn't wrong just because there's consensus that Lafreniere will likely be picked 1st overall. That said, if that team has the #1 pick, they would be wise to consider trading down to gain the additional benefit of what might be made available by a team that values Lafreniere above anyone else in draft.

- khawk


Consensus is a general agreement. So it doesn’t necessarily mean EVERYONE believes he’s #1.

Most those draft years you mentioned though had concensus #1 picks. The year Dipietro was selected, Gaborik was considered the best player in the draft.

Don’t get me wrong, there are some that weren’t clear cut:13,17...but this years draft is pretty obvious (to me at least)

Heck, even Pierre Dorion was alluding that the #1 guy is a tier above 2 and 3.

Also, you can’t really compare players from their draft year, to what they’ve become now.

Ekblad was a beast for Colts, and his rookie year was great...he’s def not lived up to the hype, but we forget he’s just 24 playing one of the hardest positions in sports.

And I’m pretty much in agreement that if the Rangers do want Byfield, they should trade down.


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