Lots of talk trying to distinguish between US and Canadian perspectives. I have believed the difference is essentially the result of education.
In a recent OECD report, Canada ranked first in the world with 56% of their population having successfully completed two years of tertiary studies (community college, technical apprenticeship or university studies). US ranked sixth with a 46% rate of tertiary education achievement.
Although the difference is only 10%, it actually teases out to be a very significant factor in terms of political and social values. For example, poorly educated white men overwhelmingly support Trump where resentment is valued more than reason. Tend to be against something more than they are for anything.
Obviously, there are many resentful, bitter, uneducated folks in Canada. But, they seem more lost among multiple political parties and it is much easier to ignore them.
"I don't want to wear a mask because I don't know better" seems to be grounded in ignorance.
So, can anybody really be surprised that Vancouver said "no" to continuing a bid because they refused to guarantee to continue hosting the playoffs even if a flare up in Covid infections occurs.
The public support for Toronto being a playoff hub is fragile, at best. Can the Premier risk giving a blanket exemption to the NHL. I don't think so. - spatso
And that lack of education=Trump voters. The average Trump supporter lives in a red state is male and uneducated.
The spike also coincides with reopening too early. In fact, there's more empirical data that this is the case than not. Though most predicted there would be an uptick, what they didn't foresee is people treating reopening as if the virus was no longer a threat. Beaches, gyms, restaurants, bars...this is where you're seeing the spread. Some cities/states are having to shut down again. - FoxMulder
You were 3 for 4, still solid ... Beaches are literally the safest place to be on the planet. In’n’out of the Water, sand, wind and sun...
Are you guys having the mask issue like we are? I don't know how it happened, but wearing a mask has been equalled to giving up constitutional rights. On the surface, it's ridiculous, but people are becoming violent. There's always been the "Don't tread on me" nuts that would rather live in a bunker, but this is a whole new level of seemingly normal people who are flat out rejecting common sense. It's very frustrating. - FoxMulder
This is a really hard for most Canadians to figure out. We have our fair share of knuckle draggers but they tend to engender varying degrees of laughter or sympathy for their ignorance. They do not have a serious voice in the political process.
You can look at it multiple ways. But, I have no difficulty wearing a mask because my friends daughter has leukaemia and my neighbour's sister has had a double lung transplant. Wearing a mask is a symbol of solidarity. Some places have had mini shut downs and wearing of masks has been imposed for a second time. Why would you not support others who are vulnerable?
Location: “Give me Point, Cirelli and Paul all day against anybody.” Mr. Cooper , ON Joined: 07.06.2007
Jul 1 @ 9:47 AM ET
The spike also coincides with reopening too early. In fact, there's more empirical data that this is the case than not. Though most predicted there would be an uptick, what they didn't foresee is people treating reopening as if the virus was no longer a threat. Beaches, gyms, restaurants, bars...this is where you're seeing the spread. Some cities/states are having to shut down again. - FoxMulder
Yeah, there’s pretty strong evidence that it has a lot more to do with bars with protests but he doesn’t get to “blame the blacks” that way.
The thing is they did foresee that opening up bars and restaurants too early was going to have this impact. You’re sending a demographic with pretty weak impulse control into bars. What do you expect? Not one expert thought this was a good idea but a bunch of southern and western governors said (frank) it.
It’s shameful to compare how numbers in the US, with the most expensive medical system in the world, compares with the rest of the world. You can’t blame a bunch of 20 year olds for this.
Yeah, there’s pretty strong evidence that it has a lot more to do with bars with protests but he doesn’t get to “blame the blacks” that way.
The thing is they did foresee that opening up bars and restaurants too early was going to have this impact. You’re sending a demographic with pretty weak impulse control into bars. What do you expect? Not one expert thought this was a good idea but a bunch of southern and western governors said (frank) it.
It’s shameful to compare how numbers in the US, with the most expensive medical system in the world, compares with the rest of the world. You can’t blame a bunch of 20 year olds for this. - Canada Cup
1 area that needs to be addressed is the total pop. Of Canada is 38million... the US. 330 mil. So just by simple mathematics we are going to have many many more cases. Still prudent precautions need to be enforced for the benefit of all.
That’s only a partial explanation. There are deep philosophical differences. The concept of personal freedom being more important than the collective good s much stronger in the US than in Canada. Canada had always had a collectivist mentality.
Partly related to that there really hasn’t been any politicization of the medical response to the pandemic. There’s been some differences on how to direct government support to those hurt by it but even that much on that.
The differences in education are real but also reflect these same philosophical differences. Education in Canada is seen much more as a public good and has worked to support social and economic mobility. In the US, not so much.
Of course, guys like Komi are embarrassing outliers. - Canada Cup
A+
Guys like Komi are really important. He teaches us the importance of humility.
1 area that needs to be addressed is the total pop. Of Canada is 38million... the US. 330 mil. So just by simple mathematics we are going to have many many more cases. Still prudent precautions need to be enforced for the benefit of all. - dozerD10
Of course you will have many more cases. I've made that argument to Canadians outisde Toronto who argue the city's COVID #'s are bad. Given the population base they are great.
The concern is the per capita cases. Vegas for instance has 10 times the cases Toronto does with a much smaller population. (Comparing 2 NHl front runners).
So, If MacKenzie says it is Toronto and Edmonton you can mail in your ticket order.
Edmonton makes sense.
Not sure Toronto can hold up. Risk of reinfection is too high, Toronto is a very large and highly concentrated population. I don't doubt that Toronto can do a great job in hosting the event.
Yeah, there’s pretty strong evidence that it has a lot more to do with bars with protests but he doesn’t get to “blame the blacks” that way.
The thing is they did foresee that opening up bars and restaurants too early was going to have this impact. You’re sending a demographic with pretty weak impulse control into bars. What do you expect? Not one expert thought this was a good idea but a bunch of southern and western governors said (frank) it.
It’s shameful to compare how numbers in the US, with the most expensive medical system in the world, compares with the rest of the world. You can’t blame a bunch of 20 year olds for this. - Canada Cup
Back when the shut down first happened, bars in Nashville fought it, specifically Tootsie's. They had to shut them down. They literally didn't believe the virus was real.
I'm about 40 miles outside Nashville and for the most part, businesses are doing right. They're asking for social distancing. Masks not so much, but I haven't seen anyone lose it because someone isn't wearing one, or vice versa.
Location: “Give me Point, Cirelli and Paul all day against anybody.” Mr. Cooper , ON Joined: 07.06.2007
Jul 1 @ 10:31 AM ET
1 area that needs to be addressed is the total pop. Of Canada is 38million... the US. 330 mil. So just by simple mathematics we are going to have many many more cases. Still prudent precautions need to be enforced for the benefit of all. - dozerD10
US case levels is four times higher per capita than Canada and trending way up while we are moving down. Deaths per capita slightly less than twice as high in US. US testing per capita slightly higher now (it had been lower through much of pandemic).
Location: “Give me Point, Cirelli and Paul all day against anybody.” Mr. Cooper , ON Joined: 07.06.2007
Jul 1 @ 10:44 AM ET
Back when the shut down first happened, bars in Nashville fought it, specifically Tootsie's. They had to shut them down. They literally didn't believe the virus was real.
I'm about 40 miles outside Nashville and for the most part, businesses are doing right. They're asking for social distancing. Masks not so much, but I haven't seen anyone lose it because someone isn't wearing one, or vice versa. - FoxMulder
I live about 40 miles outside Toronto. There are 52 active cases in a population of just under 600,000. I’d say on average I see a bit less than half the people in stores wearing masks. We’ve had bars and restaurants open for patio service for just over two weeks and numbers haven’t gone up.
More cases bc of more testing. But the death remains static in all places except one.
The spike coincides with BLM protests and there hasn't been an uptick in deaths so it would not be wrong to siggest the uptick in cases comes from young people protesting who might get sick but are not dying without underlying health issues.
Just bc someone who appears healthy and is young dies does not mean that they did not have an undigniasoded underlying health condition.
The narrative does not councide with the science nor the data. This appears to be more political in nature.
See gummibear on twitter for stats and graphs. - BluemanGuruu
1. The average Covid patient takes about 14 days to die: https://www.cdc.gov/coron...p/planning-scenarios.html. Most of the infections now have happened among the young. They will then infect older people, who will die in greater fractions. Iotw, deaths rates will rise sharply, but there will be a lag. Don't worry. Its coming.
2. Having said that, because the infection has already run through many nursing homes and because the primary infection this time is among the young, death rates will be lower than say April-May. But the best estimate of death rates for young people is now 25 per 50,000 (see same link above), which means you will have 25 deaths a day just for the young. Further, this is a horrible disease. It often leaves lasting damage to lungs, to liver, to heart. Just because people don't die does not mean they sneeze a couple of times and go back to partying.
3. Interestingly, BLM protests show no signs of increasing infection rates: https://www.wsj.com/artic...sion-hotspots-11592498020
There is speculation, based on cellphone data, that people were scared of protests and large numbers of people stayed home. The two cancelled each other out.
In other words, you were wrong on every single thing you wrote about.
Wtf are you talking about? Is this stemming from the same mythical perspective from where you made the current Flyers out to be physically intimidating?
1 area that needs to be addressed is the total pop. Of Canada is 38million... the US. 330 mil. So just by simple mathematics we are going to have many many more cases. Still prudent precautions need to be enforced for the benefit of all. - dozerD10
EU population 446 mill, almost 100 million more than US. Here are infection absolute #s
Lots of talk trying to distinguish between US and Canadian perspectives. I have believed the difference is essentially the result of education.
In a recent OECD report, Canada ranked first in the world with 56% of their population having successfully completed two years of tertiary studies (community college, technical apprenticeship or university studies). US ranked sixth with a 46% rate of tertiary education achievement.
Although the difference is only 10%, it actually teases out to be a very significant factor in terms of political and social values. For example, poorly educated white men overwhelmingly support Trump where resentment is valued more than reason. Tend to be against something more than they are for anything.
Obviously, there are many resentful, bitter, uneducated folks in Canada. But, they seem more lost among multiple political parties and it is much easier to ignore them.
"I don't want to wear a mask because I don't know better" seems to be grounded in ignorance.
So, can anybody really be surprised that Vancouver said "no" to continuing a bid because they refused to guarantee to continue hosting the playoffs even if a flare up in Covid infections occurs.
The public support for Toronto being a playoff hub is fragile, at best. Can the Premier risk giving a blanket exemption to the NHL. I don't think so. - spatso
There is one other factor. You are the only large Anglo-Saxon majority country (sorry Quebcois) that doesn't have Rupert Murdoch in your discourse.
30 years ago, he spotted the enormous money that was to be made from pandering to precisely the set you point out; he saw a way to monetize it, just like Zuckerberg was a trailblazer in finding a way to monetize social media.
Here is a column from a former Prime Minister of Australia.
Location: “Give me Point, Cirelli and Paul all day against anybody.” Mr. Cooper , ON Joined: 07.06.2007
Jul 1 @ 12:40 PM ET
There is one other factor. You are the only large Anglo-Saxon majority country (sorry Quebcois) that doesn't have Rupert Murdoch in your discourse.
30 years ago, he spotted the enormous money that was to be made from pandering to precisely the set you point out; he saw a way to monetize it, just like Zuckerberg was a trailblazer in finding a way to monetize social media.
Here is a column from a former Prime Minister of Australia.
It’s Canada Day. We get to be smug. We’ll apologize tomorrow.
I don’t know if you’ve read Dark Money by Jane Mayer. She’s done a great job tracing how the Koch’s, Mellons, etc have been able to redefine political and academic debate so that so much of the country accepts political and economic concepts that are completely counter to their own interests.
One big advantage here is that money doesn’t play as significant a role in the political process and politics doesn’t really play a role in the judicial process.
It’s Canada Day. We get to be smug. We’ll apologize tomorrow.
I don’t know if you’ve read Dark Money by Jane Mayer. She’s done a great job tracing how the Koch’s, Mellons, etc have been able to redefine political and academic debate so that so much of the country accepts political and economic concepts that are completely counter to their own interests.
One big advantage here is that money doesn’t play as significant a role in the political process and politics doesn’t really play a role in the judicial process. - Canada Cup
Oh yeah. Happy Canada Day, fellas.
I have not read the book but I don't need to. I have seen it first hand.
Location: OMAR COMIN'..Head or Gut?.....Watching regular white people Joined: 01.10.2008
Jul 1 @ 5:47 PM ET
1. The average Covid patient takes about 14 days to die: https://www.cdc.gov/coron...p/planning-scenarios.html. Most of the infections now have happened among the young. They will then infect older people, who will die in greater fractions. Iotw, deaths rates will rise sharply, but there will be a lag. Don't worry. Its coming.
2. Having said that, because the infection has already run through many nursing homes and because the primary infection this time is among the young, death rates will be lower than say April-May. But the best estimate of death rates for young people is now 25 per 50,000 (see same link above), which means you will have 25 deaths a day just for the young. Further, this is a horrible disease. It often leaves lasting damage to lungs, to liver, to heart. Just because people don't die does not mean they sneeze a couple of times and go back to partying.
3. Interestingly, BLM protests show no signs of increasing infection rates: https://www.wsj.com/artic...sion-hotspots-11592498020
There is speculation, based on cellphone data, that people were scared of protests and large numbers of people stayed home. The two cancelled each other out.
In other words, you were wrong on every single thing you wrote about. - PT21
This article is from June 18th. In the city of Philadelphia, the increase in Covid + cases, particularly among the 30 and younger age group, is directly correlated the the protests occurring during that time
