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Forums :: Blog World :: Tyler Cameron: Marian Hossa.
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Theo Fox
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 06.18.2016

Jun 30 @ 1:50 PM ET
The prospect of watching him was a big draw for me on Center Ice ... kinda like watching Mark Stone is for me these days .. but he's a poor man's Hossa so far (with potential!).
- farooge

That begs the question: which current NHLers play exactly like Hossa?

Could one argue the perenniel Selke candidates, i.e. Toews, Bergeron, Kopitar, O'Reilly, or Crosby?

Perhaps younger stars like Stone, Danault, Barkov, Couturier, or Backlund?

Surprisingly, I don't think Hossa was ever a Selke finalist, not even top 5 or top 10 as far as votes (definitely never a finalist but someone can fact check me on voting).
StLBravesFan
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 07.03.2011

Jun 30 @ 2:45 PM ET
That begs the question: which current NHLers play exactly like Hossa?

Could one argue the perenniel Selke candidates, i.e. Toews, Bergeron, Kopitar, O'Reilly, or Crosby?

Perhaps younger stars like Stone, Danault, Barkov, Couturier, or Backlund?

Surprisingly, I don't think Hossa was ever a Selke finalist, not even top 5 or top 10 as far as votes (definitely never a finalist but someone can fact check me on voting).

- AEL_Fox

If I’m reading hockey-reference correctly, he was a top-10 Selke three times in a row during the Hawks three year run from 2013-2015.

Wings seem to not get much Selke recognition.
Theo Fox
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 06.18.2016

Jun 30 @ 2:48 PM ET
If I’m reading hockey-reference correctly, he was a top-10 Selke three times in a row during the Hawks three year run from 2013-2015.

Wings seem to not get much Selke recognition.

- StLBravesFan

Thanks, STL! Hossa at least got notice by voters.
LAHawk
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 11.02.2017

Jun 30 @ 3:09 PM ET
I shake my head when trolls say Hossa only got the gunk in order to LTIR and get the cap space. Hoss even says he wanted to play out his contract, and felt he could still skate as well as the youngsters, and was healthy. Even his Hoss put up 35 points a year, he would be worth way more than his $5 mil. cap hit. Could you imagine a line of Strome, ADB, Hossa? No worries about the line being a disaster, and still be a offensive force. Or him playing on a line and mentoring Dach? Lets also not forget that the penalty kill went south when he left.

The league had to sign off on Hossa's condition. Very apparent that the rest of the team knew of his condition. Never heard a word, even from former teammates that they knew nothing about his condition. Hossa wanted to play, he just decided he didn't want to risk his life to continue to do so.



BetweenTheDots
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 06.13.2015

Jun 30 @ 3:20 PM ET
I shake my head when trolls say Hossa only got the gunk in order to LTIR and get the cap space. Hoss even says he wanted to play out his contract, and felt he could still skate as well as the youngsters, and was healthy. Even his Hoss put up 35 points a year, he would be worth way more than his $5 mil. cap hit. Could you imagine a line of Strome, ADB, Hossa? No worries about the line being a disaster, and still be a offensive force. Or him playing on a line and mentoring Dach? Lets also not forget that the penalty kill went south when he left.

The league had to sign off on Hossa's condition. Very apparent that the rest of the team knew of his condition. Never heard a word, even from former teammates that they knew nothing about his condition. Hossa wanted to play, he just decided he didn't want to risk his life to continue to do so.

- LAHawk


I miss him, as solid as they come.

I bet Toews misses him too.
Spec41971
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Rolling meadows, IL
Joined: 03.04.2017

Jun 30 @ 4:38 PM ET
Gotta be careful with that one Enzo. There are several great players who became average at best coaches (hello Gretzky) because they couldn't get their players to do the same things they once did. I'm not saying its a bad idea, but if that is the route for him to go, he would need to show his ability to do so first.
- Chunk


I agree with you on the hooded. But I think it also happens that (1) the superstar player can’t get others to do what they did because they had a skill level that couldn’t be taught and (2) the superstars sometimes had things come too naturally and didn’t know how to teach it to someone else.
Spec41971
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Rolling meadows, IL
Joined: 03.04.2017

Jun 30 @ 4:41 PM ET
I shake my head when trolls say Hossa only got the gunk in order to LTIR and get the cap space. Hoss even says he wanted to play out his contract, and felt he could still skate as well as the youngsters, and was healthy. Even his Hoss put up 35 points a year, he would be worth way more than his $5 mil. cap hit. Could you imagine a line of Strome, ADB, Hossa? No worries about the line being a disaster, and still be a offensive force. Or him playing on a line and mentoring Dach? Lets also not forget that the penalty kill went south when he left.

The league had to sign off on Hossa's condition. Very apparent that the rest of the team knew of his condition. Never heard a word, even from former teammates that they knew nothing about his condition. Hossa wanted to play, he just decided he didn't want to risk his life to continue to do so.

- LAHawk


I think the simple answer is that the Hawks could have been criticized for scamming the system to get the cap space if they had been able to take that cap space and get something better than Hossa. The fact of the matter is that Hossa was better — by far — than any player the Hawks could have gotten with the cap space that the LTIR freed up. This is clearly an instance where the team was worse off in terms of talent than they were if he had been able to stay and play.
Chunk
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Why did I move back here again?, IL
Joined: 11.06.2015

Jun 30 @ 5:20 PM ET
I agree with you on the hooded. But I think it also happens that (1) the superstar player can’t get others to do what they did because they had a skill level that couldn’t be taught and (2) the superstars sometimes had things come too naturally and didn’t know how to teach it to someone else.
- Spec41971


Agreed. I didn't put any reasons for why, but this pretty much sums it up. In Hossa's case, there are certainly things that can be taught, as he improved his defensive game when he started playing with Datsyuk. The desire and drive to do so is what could certainly be a mitigating factor.
fattybeef
Joined: 05.04.2010

Jun 30 @ 6:07 PM ET
I shake my head when trolls say Hossa only got the gunk in order to LTIR and get the cap space. Hoss even says he wanted to play out his contract, and felt he could still skate as well as the youngsters, and was healthy. Even his Hoss put up 35 points a year, he would be worth way more than his $5 mil. cap hit. Could you imagine a line of Strome, ADB, Hossa? No worries about the line being a disaster, and still be a offensive force. Or him playing on a line and mentoring Dach? Lets also not forget that the penalty kill went south when he left.

The league had to sign off on Hossa's condition. Very apparent that the rest of the team knew of his condition. Never heard a word, even from former teammates that they knew nothing about his condition. Hossa wanted to play, he just decided he didn't want to risk his life to continue to do so.

- LAHawk


The meds for that stuff can be brutal and you can't take steroids indefinitely. Every recommendation to minimize the impact is impossible to do while playing hockey.

He had an amazing career and didn't have much else to prove at that point. Bummer it got cut short but it was great to see him in a hawks sweater while it lasted.
6628
Joined: 08.24.2009

Jun 30 @ 6:45 PM ET
I agree with you on the hooded. But I think it also happens that (1) the superstar player can’t get others to do what they did because they had a skill level that couldn’t be taught and (2) the superstars sometimes had things come too naturally and didn’t know how to teach it to someone else.
- Spec41971



Agree with your post
Spec41971
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Rolling meadows, IL
Joined: 03.04.2017

Jun 30 @ 6:58 PM ET
Agreed. I didn't put any reasons for why, but this pretty much sums it up. In Hossa's case, there are certainly things that can be taught, as he improved his defensive game when he started playing with Datsyuk. The desire and drive to do so is what could certainly be a mitigating factor.
- Chunk


Hossa might be one of the superstars that can pass on and teach what they learned. Hossa, himself, credits what he learned during his year in Detroit that made him the great defensive player he became. This was a skill he wasn’t born with, but it is one he learned and worked at. Definitely a teachable skill.
jhawk59
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 02.15.2013

Jun 30 @ 7:56 PM ET
The ramifications of Covid19 on operating a minor league team is not the same as the operating schematic for professional baseball & hockey.

The greatest obstacle on the minor league level is the marketing fans. There is a greater feeling or atmosphere of friendliness, openess and involvement with promotions and it's direct link & impact on fans at the games in minor league. venues. Social distancing in seating is a catastrophic.issue particularly for minor leagues because less fans really hurts minor leagues more than at the professional level

So when minor league baseball cancelled it's season today,, I have to speculate that the 2020/2021 hockey minor league season is likely in jeopardy

Perhaps NHL teams will be allowed to have seperate taxi squads and three players plus one goaltender can practice with the NHL team due to the covid19 threat (my idea). No telling if other leagues such as juniors or European leagues will operate. Coming on the heel of expansion too
Elbows15
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: I was going to do the math on this but I don't think it will help., IL
Joined: 08.04.2013

Jun 30 @ 8:34 PM ET
Hossa was a beast. Never took a shift off. It was sheer pleasure to watch him play. True HOF'er. Made everyone want to be better. Sounds like he was revered by his teammates
SimpleJack
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Chicago , IL
Joined: 05.23.2013

Jun 30 @ 8:37 PM ET
Rewatching a lot of that 2015 playoff run and man was our bottom 6 outstanding. 3rd and 4th lines were a constant threat whenever on the ice. Versteeg-Vermette-Teravainen and Desjardins-Kruger-Shaw. As good of a bottom 6 as you’ll find on any Cup champ in the cap era.
jhawk59
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 02.15.2013

Jun 30 @ 9:09 PM ET
Rewatching a lot of that 2015 playoff run and man was our bottom 6 outstanding. 3rd and 4th lines were a constant threat whenever on the ice. Versteeg-Vermette-Teravainen and Desjardins-Kruger-Shaw. As good of a bottom 6 as you’ll find on any Cup champ in the cap era.
- SimpleJack


I feel like our future bottom lines will be good and able to outplay the other teams they go up against. I am projecting a good return on the young guys Bowman drafted whom would slot into bottom lines during the next two or three seasons.

However I see.Kane Dach as formidable but Toews a notch or two below due more to inconsistency throughout an entire season. Kubalik and Nylander further development could make our top scoring units on par with most teams Saad departure would hurt but there is a lot of youth forthcoming

So although I really want Drysdale (in part due to fear of concussions with Boqvist), he is likely taken before we choose and we would be making the prudent move to draft someone who could become a top six scorer or Askarov.

Our top six could become more lethal but then too we need more toughness and grit in the top six and this toughness etc al not just seen in bottom six. Bowman is tasked.to add. ingredients to a descent team, albeit a team needing to grow with young players
Elbows15
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: I was going to do the math on this but I don't think it will help., IL
Joined: 08.04.2013

Jul 1 @ 12:43 AM ET
Rewatching a lot of that 2015 playoff run and man was our bottom 6 outstanding. 3rd and 4th lines were a constant threat whenever on the ice. Versteeg-Vermette-Teravainen and Desjardins-Kruger-Shaw. As good of a bottom 6 as you’ll find on any Cup champ in the cap era.
- SimpleJack

didn't they lose Bickell in the Duck serie, too?
just69sayin
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: chicago
Joined: 11.15.2014

Jul 1 @ 3:56 AM ET
Hossa might be one of the superstars that can pass on and teach what they learned. Hossa, himself, credits what he learned during his year in Detroit that made him the great defensive player he became. This was a skill he wasn’t born with, but it is one he learned and worked at. Definitely a teachable skill.
- Spec41971

I dont see how playing defense is that hard to learn for a winger. Back check. Cover your point man and help out on your side of the ice and read the play. I'm sure it's harder than that. Any explanations in detail though? Just interested. I found playing wing way easier than center in the defensive zone
just69sayin
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: chicago
Joined: 11.15.2014

Jul 1 @ 4:15 AM ET
Hossa was a beast. Never took a shift off. It was sheer pleasure to watch him play. True HOF'er. Made everyone want to be better. Sounds like he was revered by his teammates
- Elbows15

Yes. He went gracefully along with what he was blessed with. He was born a hockey player and he went full force without drama utilizing his skills and blood inherited abilities.
just69sayin
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: chicago
Joined: 11.15.2014

Jul 1 @ 4:24 AM ET
I feel like our future bottom lines will be good and able to outplay the other teams they go up against. I am projecting a good return on the young guys Bowman drafted whom would slot into bottom lines during the next two or three seasons.

However I see.Kane Dach as formidable but Toews a notch or two below due more to inconsistency throughout an entire season. Kubalik and Nylander further development could make our top scoring units on par with most teams Saad departure would hurt but there is a lot of youth forthcoming

So although I really want Drysdale (in part due to fear of concussions with Boqvist), he is likely taken before we choose and we would be making the prudent move to draft someone who could become a top six scorer or Askarov.

Our top six could become more lethal but then too we need more toughness and grit in the top six and this toughness etc al not just seen in bottom six. Bowman is tasked.to add. ingredients to a descent team, albeit a team needing to grow with young players

- jhawk59

Hagel is looking like a special player. I haven't seen too many guys allow themselves to get crushed by a 245 lb dman to make a simple play in the neutral zone like he did in his only game. Coach King said he is something special. Great to have him. I could see him on the second and third line in a few years if he is going to be a real player who makes plays. Hopefully we can put together a world class third line like we had in the past
farooge
Nashville Predators
Location: Nashville, TN
Joined: 08.25.2006

Jul 1 @ 9:01 AM ET
I dont see how playing defense is that hard to learn for a winger. Back check. Cover your point man and help out on your side of the ice and read the play. I'm sure it's harder than that. Any explanations in detail though? Just interested. I found playing wing way easier than center in the defensive zone
- just69sayin


but players have to, you know, DO THAT ... and most of them (the high end ones) would rather concentrate on the next line rush or breakaway or whatever.

very few have the talent (he was born with) and dedication (he developed) of Hossa.
LAHawk
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 11.02.2017

Jul 1 @ 9:26 AM ET
I dont see how playing defense is that hard to learn for a winger. Back check. Cover your point man and help out on your side of the ice and read the play. I'm sure it's harder than that. Any explanations in detail though? Just interested. I found playing wing way easier than center in the defensive zone
- just69sayin


The difference is when you are a defensive player (specialist), you top out at $3 mil. per year, (Kreuger), if you are a offense only player, you can make at least double that (DeBrinkat). As you say defense is more about will than skill, but those that concentrate on defense and still have the offensive skill to be dominate usually end up at least on the HOF ballot, and the special ones like Hossa, get it on first ballot.

Goes for defenseman too, you can argue that Kevin Lowe was a defensive defenseman, but the last purely defensive defenseman that made it into the Hall of Fame was Rdo Languay in 2002.
kmw4631
Location: CHICAGO
Joined: 02.27.2015

Jul 1 @ 10:17 AM ET
how could the NHL agree to 3 years of flat CAP without some type of relief to help teams. 80% of the teams are basically up against the cap or over so that means every player that is either a RFA next couple years or UFA they are going to get 20% less then a player did last off season. also the 20% of teams that are under the cap are the teams that do not want to spend up to the cap and probably wont. They get really good picks for taking on a front loaded contract like Hossa. Seattle could win in there 1st year since they are really the only team that could pretty much do what ever they want. If you think Vegas bent people over Seattle will be able to even more. If they do not do compliance buyout why don't they do something like instead of 66% counting against the cap you get 1 at lower rate. the player still gets 2/3 but only 1/3 counts against the cap or something. CAT is getting 6.3 for 3 Strome in 3 year flat is probably looking at 1/2 that. If cat did not agree he would probably only get $4 X 3 when you factor in the cap and his off year. IE if they waited till the off season.
LAHawk
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 11.02.2017

Jul 1 @ 10:35 AM ET
how could the NHL agree to 3 years of flat CAP without some type of relief to help teams. 80% of the teams are basically up against the cap or over so that means every player that is either a RFA next couple years or UFA they are going to get 20% less then a player did last off season. also the 20% of teams that are under the cap are the teams that do not want to spend up to the cap and probably wont. They get really good picks for taking on a front loaded contract like Hossa. Seattle could win in there 1st year since they are really the only team that could pretty much do what ever they want. If you think Vegas bent people over Seattle will be able to even more. If they do not do compliance buyout why don't they do something like instead of 66% counting against the cap you get 1 at lower rate. the player still gets 2/3 but only 1/3 counts against the cap or something. CAT is getting 6.3 for 3 Strome in 3 year flat is probably looking at 1/2 that. If cat did not agree he would probably only get $4 X 3 when you factor in the cap and his off year. IE if they waited till the off season.
- kmw4631


Because the cap is a direct derivative of revenue, and the revenue (even with a new TV contract), is not going to go up in the next few seasons. Also, the cap has gone up because the players have agreed each year to an ever increasing escrow amount, that they want to do away with, which I would to fi i had 20% of my salary withheld so that the players do not make more than the 50/50 revenue split that was agreed to in the last CBA. Everything was hunky dory about negotiating a new contract cause the NHL thought the TV contract would bring in additional dollars, and the arena's attendance would continue to be primarily at capacity, with ever increasing ticket prices.

I wouldn't be surprised that Bettman is trying to finish this season, because he is in the back of his mind knowing that with the new reality of COVID, NEXT season could be flushed away by either a strike or a lock-out.

And the owners are not going to go for buy outs, there is no money to pay Seabrook his approximately $6 million a year to go play for another team at $1.5 mil. if he is bought out. If you notice, except for Ottawa (who as you said has an internal cap ), teams do not or will not have the cap space to take on these big money unproductive salaries.
kmw4631
Location: CHICAGO
Joined: 02.27.2015

Jul 1 @ 11:16 AM ET
Because the cap is a direct derivative of revenue, and the revenue (even with a new TV contract), is not going to go up in the next few seasons. Also, the cap has gone up because the players have agreed each year to an ever increasing escrow amount, that they want to do away with, which I would to fi i had 20% of my salary withheld so that the players do not make more than the 50/50 revenue split that was agreed to in the last CBA. Everything was hunky dory about negotiating a new contract cause the NHL thought the TV contract would bring in additional dollars, and the arena's attendance would continue to be primarily at capacity, with ever increasing ticket prices.

I wouldn't be surprised that Bettman is trying to finish this season, because he is in the back of his mind knowing that with the new reality of COVID, NEXT season could be flushed away by either a strike or a lock-out.

And the owners are not going to go for buy outs, there is no money to pay Seabrook his approximately $6 million a year to go play for another team at $1.5 mil. if he is bought out. If you notice, except for Ottawa (who as you said has an internal cap ), teams do not or will not have the cap space to take on these big money unproductive salaries.

- LAHawk


So basically everybody that signed before Covid hits makes Big money and everybody that signs the next 2 years after makes 20-25% less. no one will be able to dump salary look how hard it is with the cap going up 1.5-2 every year. if panarin was a UFA this coming off season he gets a 8-9 mil deal not 12. Also you could see a huge amount of offer sheets as well. you could offer 4.2 for a RFA and only give up a second. IE you could get 1st round talent RFA's with 2nd rounders. is it healthy to have 2/3 the league trying to dump salary the next 3 years. when you buysome out they only get 2/3 of the rest of the money. is it better to buy seabs out and pay with 13 mil or scratch him every game or LTIR and give him $20? if I was wirtz I would rather give him 13 on buyout then 20 to sit. unless there is relief it costs the hawks actually more since they so heavily front loaded the contract.
oldduffman
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 11.06.2013

Jul 1 @ 11:18 AM ET
Happy Canada day all you Canadian beauts .Cheers !!
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