mjones242
Toronto Maple Leafs |
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Location: Pretentious Beer Snob, ON Joined: 06.22.2015
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mjones242
Toronto Maple Leafs |
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Location: Pretentious Beer Snob, ON Joined: 06.22.2015
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rmull905
Calgary Flames |
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Joined: 02.27.2007
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Ek doesn't watch hockey. - gergeswillems
Fixed for accuracy
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rmull905
Calgary Flames |
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Joined: 02.27.2007
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Well, that's certainly a hot take.
Edit: Forgot about Quinn Hughes. You may have a case there. But no one else is even close. - mjones242
Everyone gets wrapped up on their counting stats, so yeah, those guys are far and away the best offensive producers out of that draft. As for best defenceman, Dobson and Boqvist may yet have something to say there.
Hell, Hughes with all the points he's put up is still a -10 with the 'Nucks, and Dahlin is a solid -7. Both guys have a long ways to go as far as proving themselves as capable defencemen that you can rely on in all situations in this league.
There are also guys in Jr that might make similar offensive impacts when they hit the NHL. Merkley, Smith, Bouchard, so the jury is still a long ways out on the best defenceman from the draft, offensively or defensively at this point. |
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Kooleus
Los Angeles Kings |
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Location: LA (home of King Alex), CA Joined: 11.17.2018
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Michael Stone is a UFA this summer. His agent should use this article as evidence to ask for Jeff Petry money. My client is a solid 2-way d-man that made the list ahead of Petry. So we'd like a raise from $700,000 to $5,500,000. This healthy scratch thing just means my client is well rested. And just because Petry's 40 points last season is more than Stone has generated in the last 4 years combined, well, that doesn't matter. He's a staple. Pay the man.
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gergeswillems
Detroit Red Wings |
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Location: Malkin wants to be The Man, ON Joined: 02.01.2016
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Michael Stone is a UFA this summer. His agent should use this article as evidence to ask for Jeff Petry money. My client is a solid 2-way d-man that made the list ahead of Petry. So we'd like a raise from $700,000 to $5,500,000. This healthy scratch thing just means my client is well rested. And just because Petry's 40 points last season is more than Stone has generated in the last 4 years combined, well, that doesn't matter. He's a staple. Pay the man. - Kooleus
I hate to point the Finger...
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Komisaurus Rex
Edmonton Oilers |
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Location: Guhle is already the McJesus of defense , ON Joined: 06.14.2009
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Prayers up for Colby Cave and his family
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gergeswillems
Detroit Red Wings |
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Location: Malkin wants to be The Man, ON Joined: 02.01.2016
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Prayers up for Colby Cave and his family - Komisaurus Rex
I hope he pulls through. ☹️ |
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Wetbandit1
Vegas Golden Knights |
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Location: Unpopular opinion (i think): The best Die Hard movie is the 4th one- Live free or Die Hard -jdfitz7, NY Joined: 10.07.2010
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homiedclown
Buffalo Sabres |
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Location: We want 1, FL Joined: 02.24.2008
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Dahlin also gets less 5-on-5 ice time per game than Henri Jokiharju. - BINGO!
we have a soccer czar as our hockey coach though |
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Mahewman
Season Ticket Holder Boston Bruins |
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Location: NH Joined: 07.01.2009
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It is Wheeler. Very easily right now. |
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mjones242
Toronto Maple Leafs |
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Location: Pretentious Beer Snob, ON Joined: 06.22.2015
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Everyone gets wrapped up on their counting stats, so yeah, those guys are far and away the best offensive producers out of that draft. As for best defenceman, Dobson and Boqvist may yet have something to say there.
Hell, Hughes with all the points he's put up is still a -10 with the 'Nucks, and Dahlin is a solid -7. Both guys have a long ways to go as far as proving themselves as capable defencemen that you can rely on in all situations in this league.
There are also guys in Jr that might make similar offensive impacts when they hit the NHL. Merkley, Smith, Bouchard, so the jury is still a long ways out on the best defenceman from the draft, offensively or defensively at this point. - rmull905
+/- is a terrible, terrible stat to bring into a serious debate about hockey players. |
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rmull905
Calgary Flames |
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Joined: 02.27.2007
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+/- is a terrible, terrible stat to bring into a serious debate about hockey players. - mjones242
Sure, I agree that +- isn't a great stat. But when you factor that into everything else, it might sum up their play in the most real way:
Both guys, Dahlin (66%) and Hughes (58%) have zone starts skewed towards the offensive end of the rink. Smart coaches. They are offense first guys, their coaches know it and play these guys to their strengths.
Both guys Dahlin (58) and Hughes (53) have Corsi's that appear favorable. Corsi is a flawed stat in its own right though and should be weighted based on zone starts.
So yeah, +/- isn't great, but when you consider that these guys have a weighting of zone starts skewed so heavily towards the other end of the rink, I'd be pretty worried about those +/- stats. |
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Tonybere
New York Rangers |
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Location: ON Joined: 02.04.2016
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MUCH better.
Propp for sure - Hesh_
Yeah, Propp was awesome and on the list of best #26's. But, even as a Rangers fan I would put Elias in second behind papa Stasny. The guy was quietly as consistent and effective as anyone you could name for the vast majority of his career. |
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sbroads24
Buffalo Sabres |
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Location: We are in 30th place. It's 2017 , NY Joined: 02.12.2012
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Dahlin also gets less 5-on-5 ice time per game than Henri Jokiharju. - BINGO!
Well you should definitely make something that is totally out of his control a knock against him. |
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BINGO!
Carolina Hurricanes |
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Location: I'll always remember the last words my grandfather ever told me. He said, "A Truck!", SK Joined: 09.21.2009
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Well you should definitely make something that is totally out of his control a knock against him. - sbroads24
okay i will |
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mjones242
Toronto Maple Leafs |
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Location: Pretentious Beer Snob, ON Joined: 06.22.2015
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Sure, I agree that +- isn't a great stat. But when you factor that into everything else, it might sum up their play in the most real way:
Both guys, Dahlin (66%) and Hughes (58%) have zone starts skewed towards the offensive end of the rink. Smart coaches. They are offense first guys, their coaches know it and play these guys to their strengths.
Both guys Dahlin (58) and Hughes (53) have Corsi's that appear favorable. Corsi is a flawed stat in its own right though and should be weighted based on zone starts.
So yeah, +/- isn't great, but when you consider that these guys have a weighting of zone starts skewed so heavily towards the other end of the rink, I'd be pretty worried about those +/- stats. - rmull905
+/- is not a worthy complementary stat in any estimation. Please stop.
If you can present a case how Dahlin and Hughes aren't the best defenceman of their class I'm all ears. Trying to predict the future is as pointless an exercise as denying current, objective facts because the future is still unwritten.
The only thing that matters, right now, is how these players are playing... right now. |
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mjones242
Toronto Maple Leafs |
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Location: Pretentious Beer Snob, ON Joined: 06.22.2015
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okay i will - BINGO!
6 seconds difference between both players 5v5. You didn't make much of it, did you? |
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rmull905
Calgary Flames |
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Joined: 02.27.2007
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+/- is not a worthy complementary stat in any estimation. Please stop.
If you can present a case how Dahlin and Hughes aren't the best defenceman of their class I'm all ears. Trying to predict the future is as pointless an exercise as denying current, objective facts because the future is still unwritten.
The only thing that matters, right now, is how these players are playing... right now. - mjones242
They still aren't great defencemen (yet), no matter whether you use +/-, Corsi or any other stat. They are gifted offensive players who are provided cherry-picked zone starts and despite that, 5v5, are still on the ice for more goals against than for. That isn't good - whether you like +/- or not. That isn't good.
So I will grant you this, they are the best out of their drafts, but only because there is no one else to compare them to. And ignoring all the stats which point to their less than stellar defensive play is almost worse than your desire to compare them to literally 0 other players.
You might as well just anoint Heinola the best defenceman in the 2019 draft - because, you know, he played 5 games more than any other defenceman and put up 5 more points than any other defenceman out of that draft class. And Dach is clearly better than Hughes. |
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