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Forums :: Blog World :: Tyler Cameron: The trip that broke the camel's back
Author Message
powerenforcer
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Wheeling, IL
Joined: 09.24.2009

Feb 14 @ 11:58 AM ET
It's time to tank. I've never agreed with this philosophy of purposely losing. But lets face it, this team is getting knocked out in the first round if they make it.

It's time to play all young guys from here on out and get a top 5 pick.

- catrisc


Do they really have to tank? hey need to play their best, unfortunately their best still will lose more games than win.
powerenforcer
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Wheeling, IL
Joined: 09.24.2009

Feb 14 @ 12:01 PM ET
No PE I'm pointing out that, like the Hawks, the Pens lucked out with a lottery pick.
- paulr


You believe "lucked" out. I'm sorry for you.
Toew Drags 4 Daze
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Charlotte, NC
Joined: 06.19.2017

Feb 14 @ 12:02 PM ET
Still waiting for a name on said GM, and a detailed explanation of why his screw ups in his previous job are irrelevant.
- mohel


Did you ever answer my question on what it would realistically take for you to decide Bowman would need to go? I'm genuinely curious.
mohel
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 02.08.2013

Feb 14 @ 12:02 PM ET
You believe "lucked" out. I'm sorry for you.
- powerenforcer


Paul can be a dolt sometimes. How could luck possibly be involved? C'mon, Paulie.
Angotti
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 07.03.2019

Feb 14 @ 12:03 PM ET
They could use a goalie, come on Stan!
catrisc
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Elmhurst, IL
Joined: 12.12.2019

Feb 14 @ 12:03 PM ET
Do they really have to tank? hey need to play their best, unfortunately their best still will lose more games than win.
- powerenforcer


The best way for them to get the #1 draft pick might be to be on the PP all game.
mohel
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 02.08.2013

Feb 14 @ 12:07 PM ET
Did you ever answer my question on what it would realistically take for you to decide Bowman would need to go? I'm genuinely curious.
- Toew Drags 4 Daze


Evidence that an available candidate would do the job better than Stan. This candidate must have an actual name. And he must have previous experience as a GM, so that we can analyze every move he's made before deciding to make the move. That's how the real world works.

Your turn. Who's your guy?
Toew Drags 4 Daze
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Charlotte, NC
Joined: 06.19.2017

Feb 14 @ 12:07 PM ET
Still waiting for a name on said GM, and a detailed explanation of why his screw ups in his previous job are irrelevant.
- mohel


Well you're gonna be waiting a long time bud. It's not my job to list of off every capable replacement GM to you. Go do your own homework.

But just to humor you, Mark Hunter is a guy I would have strong interest in bringing in.
Chunk
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Why did I move back here again?, IL
Joined: 11.06.2015

Feb 14 @ 12:16 PM ET
Well you're gonna be waiting a long time bud. It's not my job to list of off every capable replacement GM to you. Go do your own homework.

But just to humor you, Mark Hunter is a guy I would have strong interest in bringing in.

- Toew Drags 4 Daze


I'll jump into this fray for no reason. This entire argument (both sides) is silly because it is completely hypothetical.

Would another GM make different moves to try and keep this team afloat/in contention? Almost assuredly. Would those moves have turned out better for the Hawks? No possible way to know. It could have gone either way. In fact they could have turned out even worse than we are today.

This is NOT an argument for keeping Stan. My biggest reason for wanting to fire Stan is that he (and almost all GM's) gives far too much term, for fear of losing a player that he gets attached to. I don't like that he had to include the likes of TT and others in cap dumps, but much of that could not be avoided considering the cap. They still have to ice a full team and at the time of most of the "bad" trades, they were still trying to make runs at the cup.

Seabrook's contract is inexcusable, and there is a cascade effect from having it on the books. That said, unless there is some actual valid consideration from some of the vets to waive their NMC, we are likely stuck in this predicament for the next three years (regardless of the GM).
Angotti
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 07.03.2019

Feb 14 @ 12:19 PM ET
Did you ever answer my question on what it would realistically take for you to decide Bowman would need to go? I'm genuinely curious.
- Toew Drags 4 Daze

I’ll answer that, he deserves another year. He was the GM during the most successful decade in the history of the Chicago Blackhawks, one decade in which he had to deal with cap casualties due to their success. Before you mention that he brought cap hell on himself, that is the price of success, you become champions, you get paid.
Chunk
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Why did I move back here again?, IL
Joined: 11.06.2015

Feb 14 @ 12:20 PM ET
Well you're gonna be waiting a long time bud. It's not my job to list of off every capable replacement GM to you. Go do your own homework.

But just to humor you, Mark Hunter is a guy I would have strong interest in bringing in.

- Toew Drags 4 Daze


Mark Hunter is the guy from London right? I don't know too much about him aside from the fact he was a player and longtime exec of the Knights. What does he bring to the table (Admittedly, Wikipedia isn't the best source for hockey info).
Toew Drags 4 Daze
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Charlotte, NC
Joined: 06.19.2017

Feb 14 @ 12:22 PM ET
I'll jump into this fray for no reason. This entire argument (both sides) is silly because it is completely hypothetical.

Would another GM make different moves to try and keep this team afloat/in contention? Almost assuredly. Would those moves have turned out better for the Hawks? No possible way to know. It could have gone either way. In fact they could have turned out even worse than we are today.

This is NOT an argument for keeping Stan. My biggest reason for wanting to fire Stan is that he (and almost all GM's) gives far too much term, for fear of losing a player that he gets attached to. I don't like that he had to include the likes of TT and others in cap dumps, but much of that could not be avoided considering the cap. They still have to ice a full team and at the time of most of the "bad" trades, they were still trying to make runs at the cup.

Seabrook's contract is inexcusable, and there is a cascade effect from having it on the books. That said, unless there is some actual valid consideration from some of the vets to waive their NMC, we are likely stuck in this predicament for the next three years (regardless of the GM).

- Chunk


I agree with all of that.

But that last part is yet another reason why he should be gone after this year. He's completely hamstrung this team for the foreseeable future.

I just can't wrap my head around the fact that after 3 straight seasons of Stan trying to build a competitive playoff team, only to be last or 6th place in each of those seasons is acceptable.
SteveRain
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Connor Murphy Sucks, IL
Joined: 05.07.2010

Feb 14 @ 12:25 PM ET
Evidence that an available candidate would do the job better than Stan. This candidate must have an actual name. And he must have previous experience as a GM, so that we can analyze every move he's made before deciding to make the move. That's how the real world works.

Your turn. Who's your guy?

- mohel


In fairness Stan was the assistant under dale. So what moves and experience did he have? None.

You take a chance on a younger guy who is part of a winning organization and has a fresh outlook.

They need a fresh outlook at some point. A fresh set of eyes on their current roster Wci aren’t emotionally attached or still see some of these guys in their 2009-2015 form ad not their current day state.

Make sense?
-Doh-
Location: VA
Joined: 10.05.2015

Feb 14 @ 12:27 PM ET
Mark Hunter is the guy from London right? I don't know too much about him aside from the fact he was a player and longtime exec of the Knights. What does he bring to the table (Admittedly, Wikipedia isn't the best source for hockey info).
- Chunk


On October 21, 2014, Hunter was announced as the director of player personnel for the Toronto Maple Leafs.[1] On April 12, 2015, after the firing of general manager Dave Nonis, Hunter along with Kyle Dubas were named as co-interim general managers of the Maple Leafs, and they continued as assistant general managers after the Maple Leafs hired Lou Lamoriello. Lamoriello left the Maple Leafs in April 2018 and Dubas was named Toronto general manager. Shortly afterwards, Hunter agreed to mutually terminate the contract with the Maple Leafs.[2]

LAHawk
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 11.02.2017

Feb 14 @ 12:30 PM ET
I don’t know if anybody already posted it here, but go read today’s piece on the website called “the Rink “

I got to ask, logically a lot of you guys are right when you say it takes time to rebuild, but it seems like look at the New York Yankees, it seems like they get it done on the fly,Now I know there are a fair amount of people on here like myself that have been long time diehard season-ticket holder’s. Now the shoot from the hip answer would be well then just drop them and re-up when they get good again. In some of our minds that’s not an option.

I guess at least in my case what I would like to see is Rocky, be up front, and come out and tell us what the hell is going on. I don’t think it’s going to get as bad as the 90s. And I think that 19 and 88 possibly still have one more cup in them within the next 3 to 4 years. But it seems Like the people steering the ship at the top maybe need to be replaced, and let someone else have it.
The problem we have here is we have an owner that is not hands-on and he hired a guy that is a great marketer but probably never put a pair of hockey skates on in his life, unless some of you guys that may have went to high school with him can see different. I’m not knocking John but what the hell is the blind loyalty to the Bowmans.? Yes give them credit, but,Other teams have made changes at the top why can they not do this year? That is all I’m trying to say.

- wonthecup10


Yankees and Dodgers can spend their way into relevancy each year because there is no baseball salary cap, just a luxury tax, that big market teams (except for the Ricketts) scoff at, and just pay as a cost of doing business each year.
Chunk
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Why did I move back here again?, IL
Joined: 11.06.2015

Feb 14 @ 12:31 PM ET
I agree with all of that.

But that last part is yet another reason why he should be gone after this year. He's completely hamstrung this team for the foreseeable future.

I just can't wrap my head around the fact that after 3 straight seasons of Stan trying to build a competitive playoff team, only to be last or 6th place in each of those seasons is acceptable.

- Toew Drags 4 Daze


My only slight comeback to that is that the two major contracts are 19 and 88. Was the number a little high when they signed it? Yes. Is Kane worth it? In my mind absolutely. Toews, less so, but he is at 0.8PPG and plays well in all situations. At the time they signed them both, it was very hard to argue which one was worth more to the team.

Additionally, and I will say this until I am blue in the face, there are many factors that contributed to the Hawks downfall. Some of what Q did, the players themselves, etc. Ultimately, the GM is responsible for it all. If I had to handicap it, I would say they let him ride out the rest of his contract (through next year). If they are in the same position they are now, he'll get the boot.
Toew Drags 4 Daze
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Charlotte, NC
Joined: 06.19.2017

Feb 14 @ 12:33 PM ET
Mark Hunter is the guy from London right? I don't know too much about him aside from the fact he was a player and longtime exec of the Knights. What does he bring to the table (Admittedly, Wikipedia isn't the best source for hockey info).
- Chunk


Correct, he was also the GM of the Knights for awhile. He was the director of player personnel for the Leafs for a year and then co gm'd with Dubas for a few years. Has a background in scouting too.

At this stage of where the Blackhawks are at, I would be interested in any GM candidate who has a solid background in scouting.
squishy24
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 11.08.2019

Feb 14 @ 12:34 PM ET
I agree with all of that.

But that last part is yet another reason why he should be gone after this year. He's completely hamstrung this team for the foreseeable future.

I just can't wrap my head around the fact that after 3 straight seasons of Stan trying to build a competitive playoff team, only to be last or 6th place in each of those seasons is acceptable.

- Toew Drags 4 Daze


If SB "stand pat" this TDL, another season is lost. Its seems like a lot of people are ok with this. Why? a promise of a better future!

But sadly though, he will be here next year. There is no sense of panic or urgency to his demeanor and transactions. Has anyone seen a hint that SB's job is on the line if they don't make the play-offs? There were even rumors that he got a contract extension already. So we, the people who wants him out, has to stop sulking and just hope his "plan" for next year works out.

Also, please at least change the coach. This current roster is not a contender but it is capable of far more than where they are right now. I blame the inconsistency, lack of preparation, in-game adjustments to the coach. A few goal/pts here and there, and the Hawks could probably be at a wild card spot right now.



LAHawk
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 11.02.2017

Feb 14 @ 12:34 PM ET
Well you're gonna be waiting a long time bud. It's not my job to list of off every capable replacement GM to you. Go do your own homework.

But just to humor you, Mark Hunter is a guy I would have strong interest in bringing in.

- Toew Drags 4 Daze


I think after his tenure with Toronto, Hunter is very happy being co-owner of the Knights, and have no one to answer to but himself.
Chunk
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Why did I move back here again?, IL
Joined: 11.06.2015

Feb 14 @ 12:34 PM ET
On October 21, 2014, Hunter was announced as the director of player personnel for the Toronto Maple Leafs.
- -Doh-[1] On April 12, 2015, after the firing of general manager Dave Nonis, Hunter along with Kyle Dubas were named as co-interim general managers of the Maple Leafs, and they continued as assistant general managers after the Maple Leafs hired Lou Lamoriello. Lamoriello left the Maple Leafs in April 2018 and Dubas was named Toronto general manager. Shortly afterwards, Hunter agreed to mutually terminate the contract with the Maple Leafs.[2]


Well, yeah. I read that on Wikipedia. What about him is so great that he would be a good candidate?

Also, does he want to be an NHL GM? In some additional reading, I saw that he is pretty entrenched in the London area.
mohel
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 02.08.2013

Feb 14 @ 12:35 PM ET
Well you're gonna be waiting a long time bud. It's not my job to list of off every capable replacement GM to you. Go do your own homework.

But just to humor you, Mark Hunter is a guy I would have strong interest in bringing in.

- Toew Drags 4 Daze


As expected. How can we take seriously your critique of Stan if you're unable to identify who would do the job better? These things are judged in comparison to others doing the job.
mohel
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 02.08.2013

Feb 14 @ 12:39 PM ET
In fairness Stan was the assistant under dale. So what moves and experience did he have? None.

You take a chance on a younger guy who is part of a winning organization and has a fresh outlook.

They need a fresh outlook at some point. A fresh set of eyes on their current roster Wci aren’t emotionally attached or still see some of these guys in their 2009-2015 form ad not their current day state.

Make sense?

- SteveRain


He asked what it would take for me to can Stan. I gave him my criteria.

Of course, said yesterday that Stan has drafted well last three years, so he should be fired..... Make sense?
Chunk
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Why did I move back here again?, IL
Joined: 11.06.2015

Feb 14 @ 12:40 PM ET
If SB "stand pat" this TDL, another season is lost. Its seems like a lot of people are ok with this. Why? a promise of a better future!

But sadly though, he will be here next year. There is no sense of panic or urgency to his demeanor and transactions. Has anyone seen a hint that SB's job is on the line if they don't make the play-offs? There were even rumors that he got a contract extension already. So we, the people who wants him out, has to stop sulking and just hope his "plan" for next year works out.

Also, please at least change the coach. This current roster is not a contender but it is capable of far more than where they are right now. I blame the inconsistency, lack of preparation, in-game adjustments to the coach. A few goal/pts here and there, and the Hawks could probably be at a wild card spot right now.

- squishy24


Two questions for you (no snark intended here):
1) Do you want a panic move by Bowman? If he waits until deadline day and makes a flurry of moves, does that change your opinion of him?

2) When the Hawks were playing well before the break, does Colliton get any credit for that?

OK, so technically that is three questions. My second question speaks to the point that the Hawks were playing very well leading up to the break. Solid D, scoring, good PK. Virtually the same team is out on the ice and now they are playing poorly. I'm not absolving Colliton of everything, but there is a lot of blame to be placed on the players too.
mohel
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 02.08.2013

Feb 14 @ 12:42 PM ET
Correct, he was also the GM of the Knights for awhile. He was the director of player personnel for the Leafs for a year and then co gm'd with Dubas for a few years. Has a background in scouting too.

At this stage of where the Blackhawks are at, I would be interested in any GM candidate who has a solid background in scouting.

- Toew Drags 4 Daze


Didn't you say yesterday that Stan drafted well the last three years? Doesn't that involve scouting?
mohel
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 02.08.2013

Feb 14 @ 12:43 PM ET
Well, yeah. I read that on Wikipedia. What about him is so great that he would be a good candidate?

Also, does he want to be an NHL GM? In some additional reading, I saw that he is pretty entrenched in the London area.

- Chunk


He's not Stan, he MUST be good@

#tempertantrum
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