HockeyBuzz Hotstove: Thoughts on the Jason Zucker trade?

Tanner gets it in this one...

Tanner gets it in this one...
- MattStrat

Agree. Also helps that the Pens are unparalleled in terms of getting late rounders to pay off.

HockeyBuzz Hotstove: Thoughts on the Jason Zucker trade?
- ToddCordellVAN

I actually don't disagree with Tanner for once... Has hell frozen over?!?

That rare moment when I agree with Tanner. Time to play the lottery.

Wild also may finally be moving in one straight direction, rather than spinning their tires endlessly.

I actually don't disagree with Tanner for once... Has hell frozen over?!?
- Hossa1881

Ha ha....yeah.

Calling Addison a B level prospect is odd for Penguin fans who thought of him as a future top pairing Dman; but if it makes you feel better about the trade, than good for you. Zucker will only be as good as Sid makes him.

1st round pick + recent 2nd round pick = "essentially nothing"

I think this trade was great for the Penguins and just OK for the Wild. The Penguins gave up a pending UFA who was recently playing on their 4th line and they get 3.5 years of control of a legitimate first line winger.

how is Zucker, a 20 goal 40 pt guy, a "legitimate first line winger"? He had one single great year (and by "great year", I mean 60 pts), and other than that has been a "pretty good" player

at best, he's a good 2nd line winger, or a great 3rd line winger.......the pens gave up too much, especially considering how bare their cupboards are.

1st round pick + recent 2nd round pick = "essentially nothing"

- Coburns_Nose

Well theyre obviously something but good chance of them being nothing, or nothing special, especially the pick.

how is Zucker, a 20 goal 40 pt guy, a "legitimate first line winger"? He had one single great year (and by "great year", I mean 60 pts), and other than that has been a "pretty good" player

at best, he's a good 2nd line winger, or a great 3rd line winger.......the pens gave up too much, especially considering how bare their cupboards are.
- sensarmy_11

Pretty sure he's had some of the best 5 on 5 defense numbers for forwards the past few years....plus that production and skating ability.

Also, if it's 20 goals, 40 points and mainly all of those at 5 on 5 then that is totally 1st line production.

Pretty sure he's had some of the best 5 on 5 defense numbers for forwards the past few years....plus that production and skating ability.

Also, if it's 20 goals, 40 points and mainly all of those at 5 on 5 then that is totally 1st line production.
- MattStrat

not even close.....roughly 1/3 of his production is on the power play

as for his defensive numbers.....awesome. pageau produces nearly the same, and is excellent defensively, PLUS is great in the dot. can I call him a top line center?

edit - also, he's only been a positive possession player 3 times in his career, and a majority of his starts are in the offensive zone. he's a decent defensive player, but it's not like we're talking Bergeron or Stone here.

not even close.....roughly 1/3 of his production is on the power play

as for his defensive numbers.....awesome. pageau produces nearly the same, and is excellent defensively, PLUS is great in the dot. can I call him a top line center?

edit - also, he's only been a positive possession player 3 times in his career, and a majority of his starts are in the offensive zone. he's a decent defensive player, but it's not like we're talking Bergeron or Stone here.
- sensarmy_11

Nope, fake news right there. A simple Google stat check could have avoided a skate in your mouth. Try 1/6 of the points, not a third.

not even close.....roughly 1/3 of his production is on the power play

as for his defensive numbers.....awesome. pageau produces nearly the same, and is excellent defensively, PLUS is great in the dot. can I call him a top line center?

edit - also, he's only been a positive possession player 3 times in his career, and a majority of his starts are in the offensive zone. he's a decent defensive player, but it's not like we're talking Bergeron or Stone here.
- sensarmy_11

I think that they just need Zucker to see if he can generate chemistry with Crosby or Malkin, along with not tarnishing the chemistry in the locker room. When you have a couple of generational talents still playing at an elite level and you have a chance to add a talented forward at a reasonable cap hit and you have an opportunity to "overpay" instead of waiting until the trade deadline, how could they afford to not take that opportunity?

1st round pick + recent 2nd round pick = "essentially nothing"

- Coburns_Nose

It's a late first and a B level prospect (A level prospects are 'can't miss'). That's essentially nothing.

Nope, fake news right there. A simple Google stat check could have avoided a skate in your mouth. Try 1/6 of the points, not a third.
- Guile

over the last 3 years it is close to 1/3. he wasn't getting a ton of power play time before 17-18.

Nope, fake news right there. A simple Google stat check could have avoided a skate in your mouth. Try 1/6 of the points, not a third.
- Guile

sure, if you include all of his points over his entire career.....i'm strictly talking over the last 2-3 seasons......40pts out 135 have been on the PP, so like about 29-30%

I think that they just need Zucker to see if he can generate chemistry with Crosby or Malkin, along with not tarnishing the chemistry in the locker room. When you have a couple of generational talents still playing at an elite level and you have a chance to add a talented forward at a reasonable cap hit and you have an opportunity to "overpay" instead of waiting until the trade deadline, how could they afford to not take that opportunity?
- Hossa1881

i'm not saying he isn't a good player, i'm disputing Tanner's claim that he's a "legitimate 1st line winger"....which he absolutely is not

i'm not saying he isn't a good player, i'm disputing Tanner's claim that he's a "legitimate 1st line winger"....which he absolutely is not
- sensarmy_11

I don't disagree, but Chris Kunitz and Pascal Dupuis were middle-6 guys until they got to Pittsburgh. Hell, Dupuis was essentially a throw-in.

I don't disagree, but Chris Kunitz and Pascal Dupuis were middle-6 guys until they got to Pittsburgh. Hell, Dupuis was essentially a throw-in.
- jmatchett383

sure, but you shouldn't pay top line price for a player who's really a 2nd or 3rd line player, in the hopes that maybe he develops into a top line player with Crosby or Malkin

sure, but you shouldn't pay top line price for a player who's really a 2nd or 3rd line player, in the hopes that maybe he develops into a top line player with Crosby or Malkin
- sensarmy_11

I don't think the price was that high (Galchenyuk had basically negative value due to his cap hit for the rest of the year), and the Pens are getting a good 2nd liner who's signed at a good price for the next 3+ years. Cost of doing business.

The Penguins don't care about futures right now, and Marino's emergence made some of their young D expendable. Galchenyuk was on the verge of being a healthy scratch. Addision and the first may or may not ever amount to anything substantial, and not in the next 2-3 years. The Penguins are all-in to win now, and this helps them in that.

sure, but you shouldn't pay top line price for a player who's really a 2nd or 3rd line player, in the hopes that maybe he develops into a top line player with Crosby or Malkin
- sensarmy_11

Strictly looking at last season he had 14 goals and 14 assists at even strength. He's almost on the money for ES 1st line production last year, which was a down year.


https://www.habseyesonthe...e-nhl-production-analysis

Strictly looking at last season he had 14 goals and 14 assists at even strength. He's almost on the money for ES 1st line production last year, which was a down year.


https://www.habseyesonthe...e-nhl-production-analysis
- MattStrat

if 28 EV points is what you're expecting from a 1st line winger, then you probably need to set the bar a little higher.

just looking at your team....guentzel is a "legit 1st line winger" and he had 64 EV pts.

looking at my train wreck of a team, Ryan Dzingel last season (between Ottawa and CBJ) had about 45 EV pts, and I wouldn't even consider him a "legit 1st line winger".

hell, even according to your link (which is a ridiculous article), he still falls short of the BARE MINIMUM at EV to be considered a legit 1st liner

is he a good player - ABSOLUTELY

is he a legit first line player - there is literally nothing about his game that is 1st line calibre

if 28 EV points is what you're expecting from a 1st line winger, then you probably need to set the bar a little higher.

just looking at your team....guentzel is a "legit 1st line winger" and he had 64 EV pts.

looking at my train wreck of a team, Ryan Dzingel last season (between Ottawa and CBJ) had about 45 EV pts, and I wouldn't even consider him a "legit 1st line winger".
- sensarmy_11

Well its nice to cherry pick two guys like that for the purpose of your narrative here today but that doesn't change the fact that there are a lot of other 1st line players producing less than those two you point out. Again, that's also a down year for Zucker.