Joy ... 8 more days of game-less squabbling on the message board. Riveting.

On a more positive topic - since Koekkoek has been playing noticeably better lately, I looked up his stats/history and was surprised to find that despite playing some games in 6 NHL seasons, he has played in only 130 games total. If the old adage that it takes a d-man 250 games to reach his potential - KKKK is only half way there. I guess what I'm saying/hoping is that he is getting better because he is maturing and that maybe he'll turn out to be the d-man he was projected to be when he was taken 10th in the 2012 draft. And wouldn't that be very cool.
- EbonyRaptor

He is a guy that I might try and do a carpnerter style deal . 3-4 years at 1.3 os something. same with caguilla. bottom pairing guys tend to get shorter deals and srappy guys like cagguilla tend to get hurt a lot. the amount you can bury goes to 1.125 in 1 year. so giving out 3-4 years deals in the 1.3-1.5 range does not really hurt you if things do not work out. Would KK take a 4 year 5 mil deal? what about CAG 4 year 6 mil? you would lock both up till there 30 basically. I feel that teams really should do a better job of this for fringe players. they get guaranteed contracts and hawks get cost control with little downside. IE if they do 1 year deals with both and they both have good 20-21 season the price goes into the 2-3 mil per year range.

After the WPG loss & MIN win last night, here are the point projections from The Athletic.

STL 107.7
COL 105.0
DAL 99.4
NSH 92.7
CHI 88.5
MIN 87.1
WPG 85.3

IMHO you only move Saad and his $6mil cap hit next year if you can get back (in the same trade or a separate trade) a younger version of Saad that has a lower cap hit and/or more cost controlled years. I do not think the Hawks currently have a prospect in their system who can do the things that Saad can do on the NHL level.

If you trade him for a 1st round pick it will probably be a mid to late first round pick that will be NHL ready in 2 to 3 years (and that is not a guarantee). If you trade him for a 1st round pick and a prospect, chances are the prospect would be a "B" level prospect and those are a dime a dozen (and the Hawks already have plenty of them).

I am ok with trading anyone if the return is right.
- -Doh-

The problem with Saad is next year you basically lose control over him, as his modified NMC kicks in, and he is UFA afterwards. The last go around with Stan caused Saad to be traded, would you risk losing him for $0 if his demands are too expensive, and you can't move him?, or not get fair value because the 10 teams he lists that he could be traded to know that the Hawks backs are up against the wall?

Joy ... 8 more days of game-less squabbling on the message board. Riveting.

On a more positive topic - since Koekkoek has been playing noticeably better lately, I looked up his stats/history and was surprised to find that despite playing some games in 6 NHL seasons, he has played in only 130 games total. If the old adage that it takes a d-man 250 games to reach his potential - KKKK is only half way there. I guess what I'm saying/hoping is that he is getting better because he is maturing and that maybe he'll turn out to be the d-man he was projected to be when he was taken 10th in the 2012 draft. And wouldn't that be very cool.
- EbonyRaptor

Would be VERY cool...…

Best thing about a d man is NOT noticing him....

And then you have Gus who damn near put one in his goal trying to exit the zone on what I believe was a PP

That guy......

Hawks & WPG are tied at 54 points & 51 games played

Tie breaker #1, regulation wins, both tied with 18
Tie breaker #2 ROW, both tied with 22
Tie breaker #3 total wins, WPG leads 25-24

The problem with Saad is next year you basically lose control over him, as his modified NMC kicks in, and he is UFA afterwards. The last go around with Stan caused Saad to be traded, would you risk losing him for $0 if his demands are too expensive, and you can't move him?, or not get fair value because the 10 teams he lists that he could be traded to know that the Hawks backs are up against the wall?
- LAHawk

THIS

Get your mailbag questions in!!!

I'm writing up a blog tonight.
- Tyler Cameron

Tyler-
Do you think on ice team chemistry is underrated here by commenters on hockey blogs?
IMHO, it is.
Thanks-
35Tony0

After the WPG loss & MIN win last night, here are the point projections from The Athletic.

STL 107.7
COL 105.0
DAL 99.4
NSH 92.7
CHI 88.5
MIN 87.1
WPG 85.3
- scottak

any projections on the pacific?

Joy ... 8 more days of game-less squabbling on the message board. Riveting.

On a more positive topic - since Koekkoek has been playing noticeably better lately, I looked up his stats/history and was surprised to find that despite playing some games in 6 NHL seasons, he has played in only 130 games total. If the old adage that it takes a d-man 250 games to reach his potential - KKKK is only half way there. I guess what I'm saying/hoping is that he is getting better because he is maturing and that maybe he'll turn out to be the d-man he was projected to be when he was taken 10th in the 2012 draft. And wouldn't that be very cool.
- EbonyRaptor

Unfortunately if 4K continues to play well this year and next year and establishes himself as a decent defenseman, he may be lost in the expansion draft in the summer of 21.

Would be VERY cool...…

Best thing about a d man is NOT noticing him....

And then you have Gus who damn near put one in his goal trying to exit the zone on what I believe was a PP

That guy......
- SteveRain

KooKoo looks to me like a guy who was afraid to make a mistake for fear of getting scratched and all of a sudden said (frank) it, I'm just going to do what i can and let the chips fall where they may.

any projections on the pacific?
- SteveRain

VAN 94.8
ARI 93.1
CLG 92.9
EDM 92.6
VGK 91.4
ANA 77.2
SJ 77.2
LAK 73.0

Apparently its NOT ok to like a player but NOT like his AAV.

Saad the player is solid. He's not great at anything but solid at a lot of things.....Yet like usual so many fans want to play the sentimental card about how he has to stay here, and blah, blah, blah, blah.

Hawks PK success is more attributed to Carpenter's emergence on it then anything else.

Again....I don't envy Bowman's position....he's got some very tough calls to make on a few key RFAs and with Koekkoek's recent emergence throw his name into the pile as well.....

Bowman did excellent taking Saad in JUne of 2015 and flipping him for AA knowing the price tag didn't fit his budget. Same with Panarin after signing him to a smaller bridge deal.

What will be fascinating is the next 11 games out of the break leading up to the deadline....how the team plays will largely determine what Bowman does...sell, stand pat, buy.....think a combination of all 3 makes sense IF this team continues to show the improvement they did BEFORE the break.
- SteveRain

You can certainly like the player, but not the contract (see also Toews and Seabrook). The problem is that the going rate for a player of Saad's ilk is around $5-7M per year. I have more of an issue with Shaw being brought back than Saad (at the time the moves were made). You are completely right that Stan has a lot of hard decisions to make in the coming 6 months.

We will agree to disagree on Hammer. He is still a very good defensemen.

Don't be shocked to see Saad dealt again when his agent asks for the moon, and Hawks can't fit it in.

Here's the thing on saad…..when you are in the cup window you need guys like him and frolik, bolland, kruger etc....and you make sacrifices because you know what they offer come April-June is invaluable.

When you are out of that window.....what are they truly getting out of Saad? Is Saad better today then what we saw in game 6 vs Tampa? I am not sure he is. He seems to have evened out.

Are you willing to lose a Strome or Kubalik to keep Saad because it may come down to it.

At best they may have 14 million to fit in a #1 goalie, and those 2 guys, and Caggiula, Koekkoek……

I don't envy Bowman's position but I do trust him to make the tough calls....hes done it in the past.
- SteveRain

This is the type of conversation I hate having because I see both sides...

Saad has been one of my favorite Hawks players since he was called up in 2012 (he was also actually my first jersey purchase, assuming he'd be here for the long run :eyeroll:facepalm: because of my poor history with getting jerseys and guys being immediately traded) because he plays a very good 200ft game and is exactly the type of guy you need on your roster to win a Cup with. I hate the Panarin trade talk because for the millionth time Panarin was and is the better player, but that was done because there was no way we would be able to keep him for the long term. End of story. I want Saad to be on this team and for it to be successful with him being a key role player for the team.

However, like you said, he's hit his ceiling (more than likely) as far as what type of player he's going to be and that's fine. He's the exact player teams need to win NOW. With how contracts work he's going to get a raise from the 6M he's making now (and people already complain about amount). At that point he'll be entering his age 29 season and will likely want a 5 or 6 year contract for at least 7M per. This would be another one of those deals that the fans will end up b!tc#ing about because we can't afford to keep Dach, Kubalik, Boqvist, etc. Saad could bring back a good return that could bring back a 1st round pick, and two good prospects back.

I'm not advocating for the Hawks to trade Saad away, but they need to seriously consider doing so to help the team long term. Keeping him will only help in the short term and if resigned is gonna end up being a contract that fans hate and blame for why the team can't be successful.

The problem with Saad is next year you basically lose control over him, as his modified NMC kicks in, and he is UFA afterwards. The last go around with Stan caused Saad to be traded, would you risk losing him for $0 if his demands are too expensive, and you can't move him?, or not get fair value because the 10 teams he lists that he could be traded to know that the Hawks backs are up against the wall?
- LAHawk

The problem is that the Hawks are close to being competitive right now. If they were 8-10 points out and still playing poorly, the decision is easy - you trade him for the best return available (which I believe would be quite sizable). If they are in A WC spot or a point out, I don't think Stan will be able to make that move unless he gets a plug and play piece coming back at lower cost.

I will never hope that the Hawks lose, but it sure would make a lot of the decisions easier.

Interesting scheduling quirk, ARI plays twice after the break

29th @ Ducks
30th host Kings

before they host the Hawks on February 1st.

Is Bettman trying to make sure the Hawks are stale, or make sure they're rested and refreshed, before taking on the Coyotes?

IMHO you only move Saad and his $6mil cap hit next year if you can get back (in the same trade or a separate trade) a younger version of Saad that has a lower cap hit and/or more cost controlled years. I do not think the Hawks currently have a prospect in their system who can do the things that Saad can do on the NHL level.

If you trade him for a 1st round pick it will probably be a mid to late first round pick that will be NHL ready in 2 to 3 years (and that is not a guarantee). If you trade him for a 1st round pick and a prospect, chances are the prospect would be a "B" level prospect and those are a dime a dozen (and the Hawks already have plenty of them).

I am ok with trading anyone if the return is right.
- -Doh-

100% on board with that. Nobody would make that move in the first scenario and the second is "meh." Saad is the only player on the team that does everything he does.The players to move if cap relief is needed are Dinky and Maata assuming Seebrook is unmovable.

You can certainly like the player, but not the contract (see also Toews and Seabrook). The problem is that the going rate for a player of Saad's ilk is around $5-7M per year. I have more of an issue with Shaw being brought back than Saad (at the time the moves were made). You are completely right that Stan has a lot of hard decisions to make in the coming 6 months.
- Chunk

Buyout Shaw make the decision to play easier for him.

You can certainly like the player, but not the contract (see also Toews and Seabrook). The problem is that the going rate for a player of Saad's ilk is around $5-7M per year. I have more of an issue with Shaw being brought back than Saad (at the time the moves were made). You are completely right that Stan has a lot of hard decisions to make in the coming 6 months.
- Chunk

I understand that he wasn't having much of an impact on the team to start the year, but I really don't understand why people have such a problem with bringing him back. He was coming off his best year putting up 47 points in 63 games playing on the top line with Drouin and Domi most of the time. This team severally lacked grit on it. Remember when, I think it was Salomaki, on Nashville took a run at Keith and the ONLY guy who jumped in right away was Alex DeBrincat. All 5'7 of him was going all out to defend his teammate. That's not good when one of your best skill players is having to step in like that.

The Hawks desperately needed someone with grit to come in on this team. And before someone makes a snarky comment, I'm not saying you need an enforcer old school hockey style, but every team needs a SKILLED player who is not afraid to stand up for his teammates and make the other team think twice before taking a run at one of your guys.

On top of that, several of the guys stated how having Shaw back around helped with the locker room because he's always joking and making guys laugh which helps during a long season where guys get frustrated (see Keith and Toews fight from two days ago).

If your issue is with his contract I understand the frustration with the cap limitiations, but that's the going rate for a middle six forward. If anything that's a a very decent contract for a guy who's been able to put up his production...when healthy. Which brings me to my next point, if your issue is with his injury history, I can understand that because he's always had issues one way or another unfortunately. However, when healthy he's the perfect middle six forward that every team needs to win. Caggiula is currently playing in the role that Shaw could/should be in and that only further adds depth to your roster.

The only issue I have with the deal is that it seems Bowman paid a premium, but didn't get Montreal to take any salary when they were looking to clear some out. It should be one way or another. Either you buy low and take all the money OR buy high and the other team retains some salary. Even coming off a career year, as I stated before, the injury concerns should have still factored into things. That's my only complaint. I don't think Stan is very good about making trades for known commodities. On the flip side, he's VERY good at finding the diamond in the rough players.

We will agree to disagree on Hammer. He is still a very good defensemen.

Don't be shocked to see Saad dealt again when his agent asks for the moon, and Hawks can't fit it in.

Here's the thing on saad…..when you are in the cup window you need guys like him and frolik, bolland, kruger etc....and you make sacrifices because you know what they offer come April-June is invaluable.

When you are out of that window.....what are they truly getting out of Saad? Is Saad better today then what we saw in game 6 vs Tampa? I am not sure he is. He seems to have evened out.

Are you willing to lose a Strome or Kubalik to keep Saad because it may come down to it.

At best they may have 14 million to fit in a #1 goalie, and those 2 guys, and Caggiula, Koekkoek……

I don't envy Bowman's position but I do trust him to make the tough calls....hes done it in the past.
- SteveRain

You could make that Saad argument with just about every player on the team minus a couple young guys "insert name."

KooKoo looks to me like a guy who was afraid to make a mistake for fear of getting scratched and all of a sudden said (frank) it, I'm just going to do what i can and let the chips fall where they may.
- 6628

Totally agree with this. Last year he would be playing fine in a game, and then he would make a mistake (either being overly aggressive or being caught thinking instead of reacting). I always thought his mistakes last year were primarily because he was scared to make a mistake. There is no doubt he is a plus player and is not afraid of being physical. Kind of reminds me of how Kempny was with the Hawks

Unfortunately if 4K continues to play well this year and next year and establishes himself as a decent defenseman, he may be lost in the expansion draft in the summer of 21.
- boilermaker100

By summer 2021 DeHahn might be finished or not worth protecting given his bad shoulder. Seabrook cannot waive a no trade clause even if Seattle is going to trade him back to us immediately after the expansion draft? First and second year players exempt and Gus surely gone. That leaves Keith,KK, Murphy, Maata the choices to protect on defense
.
Perhaps interesting decisions come then ..And KK will be the smallest contract BTW. What if you traded them Murphy and Seabrook then Seabrook returns after the draft for a prospect.. A lot depends upon how well kids develop. How much NHL go would the kids have going into the 2021 - '22 season. Keith, Boqvist, Mitchell, KK and then leftovers or another prospect - maybe Carlsson or Kyrs. Leftovers would be Seabrook + Maata/Gilbert (if not drafted)

Totally agree with this. Last year he would be playing fine in a game, and then he would make a mistake (either being overly aggressive or being caught thinking instead of reacting). I always thought his mistakes last year were primarily because he was scared to make a mistake. There is no doubt he is a plus player and is not afraid of being physical. Kind of reminds me of how Kempny was with the Hawks
- LAHawk

KoekKoek will be on this team next year. He has leap frogged Gus' position. He brings a little bit less offensively than Gus but brings a lot more defensively.

Tyler-
Do you think on ice team chemistry is underrated here by commenters on hockey blogs?
IMHO, it is.
Thanks-
35Tony0
- 35Tony0

*and Hawks media

KooKoo looks to me like a guy who was afraid to make a mistake for fear of getting scratched and all of a sudden said (frank) it, I'm just going to do what i can and let the chips fall where they may.
- 6628

The best thing that happened to him were injuries to Seabrook and DeHaan and the really crappy game Gilbert had against Van. No fear of really being scratched anymore. KKKK has already gone through the gauntlet that Gilbert is going through. KKKK is playing with confidence, playing well with Maatta and his confidence is growing.

And I would really like him to continue to do so...just so we can stick it to Yzerman for trading him. DETROIT SUCKS!!! (Yes, I know he was with the Lightning but Stevie Y will always be a Dead Wing to me.)

any projections on the pacific?
- SteveRain

Yea - Bettman really hopes California falls into the ocean.