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Forums :: Blog World :: Todd Cordell: Blake Coleman continues to impress and a case of perception vs reality
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Todd Cordell
New Jersey Devils
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 09.05.2011

Jan 17 @ 11:53 AM ET
Todd Cordell: Blake Coleman continues to impress and a case of perception vs reality
Bowkes
New Jersey Devils
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Joined: 07.26.2011

Jan 17 @ 12:00 PM ET
Todd, fantastic write ups. However I would like to know the strength of competition that these two players are playing against compared to there stats. Just hypothetical if Vat's is going against lines 2 1 and 2 more often than Butcher handling the opposing players 2 or third line and they have the same expected states, is it really comparable, if you reverse them would Butchers number drop lower and Vats rise up? Too it depends on line mates and your defensive partners. Hard to compare straight across the two.
Todd Cordell
New Jersey Devils
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 09.05.2011

Jan 17 @ 12:04 PM ET
Todd, fantastic write ups. However I would like to know the strength of competition that these two players are playing against compared to there stats. Just hypothetical if Vat's is going against lines 2 1 and 2 more often than Butcher handling the opposing players 2 or third line and they have the same expected states, is it really comparable, if you reverse them would Butchers number drop lower and Vats rise up? Too it depends on line mates and your defensive partners. Hard to compare straight across the two.
- Bowkes


yeah Vatanen generally plays P2 vs Butcher on P3. (Greene + Severson or Greene + Subban usually play the macthup role). Though Vatanen may face a little tougher competition, he also doesn't have to play with Mirco Mueller/Connor Carrick every game.
canadianwhiskey
Joined: 06.30.2009

Jan 17 @ 12:07 PM ET
Excellent Point.
Cmor11794
New Jersey Devils
Location: Short Hills, NJ
Joined: 01.07.2014

Jan 17 @ 12:19 PM ET
Not really related to a Vatanen/Butcher debate, and clearly the advanced stats are showing something a little different but man Butcher has quickly become one of the toughest guys to watch on the back end for me. I feel like he is never ever making a play and is consistently getting worked by whoever he is matched up against (which I guess can be said for the entire team). You can't trade everybody but I would not at all be bummed if they moved him, he is emblematic of the porous, ineffectual defense this team plays. End of rant.

And please pay Blake Coleman, there is no rational world where Simmonds should be making 3 million more than him. This team needs 20 Colemans.
Gambi99
New Jersey Devils
Location: NY
Joined: 07.09.2007

Jan 17 @ 1:24 PM ET
I'm sorry, I'm not a Butcher fan and never will be. He doesn't skate well enough to be a 1 dimensional offensive defenseman. Just look at the Rangers Deangelo who is very similar to Butcher in age and size but skates way better and which makes him a better player. If your going to be a "slower" skater then you better bring size and toughness which Butcher doesn't. He seems to get pinned in a lot in the d-zone, rushes his passes and looks like he's skating in mud. Greene looks faster then him which means your in trouble. I would rather see the Devils replace him next year then Vatanen.
Queenie_5_hole
New Jersey Devils
Joined: 05.01.2015

Jan 17 @ 1:36 PM ET

And please pay Blake Coleman, there is no rational world where Simmonds should be making 3 million more than him. This team needs 20 Colemans.

- Cmor11794


True but we signed Simmonds as a UFA with a very successful history while Blake was signed as a RFA with very little track record. Let's just ignore Wayne's injuries and consider it a gamble Shero was willing to take....

That said the complete travesty is that Coleman is making much less then Miles Wood.
And to be honest I didn't have a problem with that when Ray Ray signed them both.
But I was totally (frank)ing wrong. It happens.

I'm in the camp that says screw the advanced stats, Butcher is a mess. At least Vats drives the net and has some moves. Will has been a waste and I cringe every time someone suggest putting him with PK on the top pair.

Leniwm1
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Joined: 02.24.2015

Jan 17 @ 4:27 PM ET
Remember Butchers first year? Seemed like every pass he made resulted in a goal. If there are teams that feel he is a great dman I ship him off to those teams. Dude has fallen off so bad.

And is it just me, or does Severson play like very cocky? Like he makes stupid plays. Plays with no urgency. He tries to play like Neids, that calm game, but makes `10x the mistakes.

THIS IS WHY WE NEED #4. Dude will shape up that backend.
Rednblackk
New Jersey Devils
Joined: 08.19.2018

Jan 17 @ 6:27 PM ET
Great to see Coleman getting better., after his first year I was like meh but since yr two he's been one of the better goalscorers on the team, he just has the knack to beat goalies that scorers have
MartysBetter88
New Jersey Devils
Location: 94Nevermore, NJ
Joined: 07.01.2010

Jan 17 @ 7:24 PM ET
Great to see Coleman getting better., after his first year I was like meh but since yr two he's been one of the better goalscorers on the team, he just has the knack to beat goalies that scorers have
- Rednblackk


which is why we should trade him and Palmieri so we can pick top 10 this year AND next year and maybe the year after that if our 2020 1st round picks aren't developed to be top 6 forwards. We should trade Gusev too, since he's over 24 and has talent and could bring a nice return.

Or we could keep players under 30 and build with them, Nico, Jack, whatever the kids amount to, and this year's 1st rd picks. They'll still be productive 5+ years from now. It's tricky because we seem so far away.. our defense is so bad, and prospects are a few years away from being solid NHL dmen. That's a lot of spots to fill. So why not suck and get more picks? But how long do you really do that? Next year and then the year after and THEN we'll be ready to push? At that point we'd be wishing we still had Coleman and Palmieri, unless of course the 2 of them bring back a great return that ends up being nearly as valuable as them..

unknowns everywhere. so what decision is more likely to bring success?
Queenie_5_hole
New Jersey Devils
Joined: 05.01.2015

Jan 17 @ 11:37 PM ET
Are we going to stink forever?
Pomegrant
New Jersey Devils
Location: NJ
Joined: 01.18.2010

Jan 18 @ 2:17 AM ET
Are we going to stink forever?
- Queenie_5_hole

We're never going to win a game again.
Devilish4
New Jersey Devils
Joined: 06.21.2019

Jan 18 @ 6:29 AM ET
We're never going to win a game again.
- Pomegrant

Nonsense Blackwood is back.
Htowntigers89
New Jersey Devils
Location: NJ
Joined: 06.30.2014

Jan 18 @ 8:02 AM ET
Coleman gets his next contract when Zajac’s contract comes off the books. I honestly believe he has earned Zajac’s cap hit, but think the devils will try to sign him to a similar deal they signed Palmeri on.

Coleman kind of reminds me of Clarkson. I think he is a great devil and our system really fits his skill set. I don’t know that if he goes elsewhere he has the same success.

I hear a lot of bashes about devil leadership. But I think Coleman is one case where the leadership has come thru. Zajac really took Coleman under his wing the last few seasons and his work ethic has really rubbed off onto Blake.
Devilish4
New Jersey Devils
Joined: 06.21.2019

Jan 18 @ 8:47 AM ET
Coleman gets his next contract when Zajac’s contract comes off the books. I honestly believe he has earned Zajac’s cap hit, but think the devils will try to sign him to a similar deal they signed Palmeri on.

Coleman kind of reminds me of Clarkson. I think he is a great devil and our system really fits his skill set. I don’t know that if he goes elsewhere he has the same success.

I hear a lot of bashes about devil leadership. But I think Coleman is one case where the leadership has come thru. Zajac really took Coleman under his wing the last few seasons and his work ethic has really rubbed off onto Blake.

- Htowntigers89

Big difference despite many others is Coleman can skate quite well and fast where as Wendell Clarkson couldnt skate at all.
rmdevil313
Edmonton Oilers
Location: Your a (frank)ing fag and I hope you get crippled- Cranny, MN
Joined: 01.05.2009

Jan 18 @ 12:23 PM ET
Coleman gets his next contract when Zajac’s contract comes off the books. I honestly believe he has earned Zajac’s cap hit, but think the devils will try to sign him to a similar deal they signed Palmeri on.

Coleman kind of reminds me of Clarkson. I think he is a great devil and our system really fits his skill set. I don’t know that if he goes elsewhere he has the same success.

I hear a lot of bashes about devil leadership. But I think Coleman is one case where the leadership has come thru. Zajac really took Coleman under his wing the last few seasons and his work ethic has really rubbed off onto Blake.

- Htowntigers89


Coleman is a lot more well rounded than Clarkson. He's definitely in his prime and will regress in the future, but his style of play is much more versatile and should age a little better.
Pomegrant
New Jersey Devils
Location: NJ
Joined: 01.18.2010

Jan 18 @ 7:35 PM ET
Nico really a hound on the puck tonight. Generating a lot of good looks already.

edit: right into Schneider giving up a garbage goal. christ.
K-dizzle
New Jersey Devils
Joined: 07.28.2011

Jan 18 @ 7:47 PM ET
Nico really a hound on the puck tonight. Generating a lot of good looks already.

edit: right into Schneider giving up a garbage goal. christ.

- Pomegrant


It seems like Nico can dance around anybody now. I think the shot tipped off Greene’s stick and dipped but yeah I think he could have had that one.
Pomegrant
New Jersey Devils
Location: NJ
Joined: 01.18.2010

Jan 18 @ 8:07 PM ET
It seems like Nico can dance around anybody now. I think the shot tipped off Greene’s stick and dipped but yeah I think he could have had that one.
- K-dizzle

After seeing the replay, he tipped it. It's just impossible to make excuses for Schneider anymore.

This Merzlikins kid is stealing this game.
K-dizzle
New Jersey Devils
Joined: 07.28.2011

Jan 18 @ 8:20 PM ET
After seeing the replay, he tipped it. It's just impossible to make excuses for Schneider anymore.

This Merzlikins kid is stealing this game.

- Pomegrant


Every shot Schneider gets is an adventure. Their goalie is playing unbelievable. And now that happens.
Pomegrant
New Jersey Devils
Location: NJ
Joined: 01.18.2010

Jan 18 @ 8:26 PM ET
Looks like Cory is going back to Bingo. There's just nothing left.
K-dizzle
New Jersey Devils
Joined: 07.28.2011

Jan 18 @ 8:28 PM ET
Idk what to say anymore. He’s done
MartysBetter88
New Jersey Devils
Location: 94Nevermore, NJ
Joined: 07.01.2010

Jan 18 @ 8:53 PM ET
these intermission features on the 2000 team are honestly making me emotional lol. It's incredible how many thousands of miles apart our team is compared to those Cup teams lol. The A-Line.. just incredible.. and how could you not love watching those guys, especially as a kid growing up in the 90s.. well "pre-teen". Elias and Sykora were young and relatable for a 12yr old kid, then the big but not slow Arnott between them. magic.

poof Schneids. After that 4th goal you saw him take his mask off for the water, but then a half-second pause.. as if he stared off thinking, what went wrong? what did I do wrong? what happened? what is going on? .. and then the yank. Feel so bad for him.

The longer I watch this game, the more I'm down to trade everyone except Hischier, Coleman, Gusev, and yea my boy Palmieri lol. Literally everyone else can go for the right deal/package, and I'm aware I'm including Hughes in there. I know he'll likely develop into something good, but he was never projected to be a franchise guy. .and we have several other guys that won't be franchise guys, so if we could package him for someone that COULD be, I'm all for it. I know he won't be moved, and I don't want him moved, but I'm just listing the few players of skill and "intangibles" that I'd want to keep and everyone else can goooo. Bring in Gallant and 15 new faces and lets go lol.
shvingter88
New Jersey Devils
Location: Puljujarvi makes draisitil and mcdavid better, CT
Joined: 10.12.2009

Jan 18 @ 10:33 PM ET
Idk what to say anymore. He’s done
- K-dizzle

DOOMED
Queenie_5_hole
New Jersey Devils
Joined: 05.01.2015

Jan 18 @ 11:29 PM ET
Are we going to stink forever?
- Queenie_5_hole


Yes.
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