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Forums :: Blog World :: Tyler Cameron: Up and down we go
Author Message
rpeters01
Season Ticket Holder
Joined: 07.09.2016

Jan 11 @ 12:38 AM ET
you are dead on with this...
- bogiedoc


Something else not talked about is the cap makes it very difficult. As long as teams think they are "one piece away" ex. Pacioretty's contract and there are many, it drives up the price of keeping your players and you are either overpaying or losing them before you can get good during a rebuild. If Strome costs us $8M sorry I let him go. We overpaid ADB. I see both as 3rd line players on a good team. ADB even when he was at 40 goals was not a complete player more of a "designated hitter" homerun or strikeout.
pdx2ord
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Portland, OR
Joined: 09.02.2015

Jan 11 @ 2:19 AM ET
Best (frank)ing drummer ever... and he wrote just about every lyric for Rush.

If you’ve never air-drummed through the entire Moving Pictures album, you don’t like rock-n-roll.


- Chief4Feathers


https://www.instagram.com...m_source=ig_web_copy_link
StLBravesFan
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 07.03.2011

Jan 11 @ 8:08 AM ET
Something else not talked about is the cap makes it very difficult. As long as teams think they are "one piece away" ex. Pacioretty's contract and there are many, it drives up the price of keeping your players and you are either overpaying or losing them before you can get good during a rebuild. If Strome costs us $8M sorry I let him go. We overpaid ADB. I see both as 3rd line players on a good team. ADB even when he was at 40 goals was not a complete player more of a "designated hitter" homerun or strikeout.
- rpeters01

But now he is a more complete player - better with the puck - and he has the puck a lot more on a non-Kane line - better on backchecking and puck retrieval. The play he made on Strome’s last goal, I don’t th8nk he makes that play last season.

He’s also getting his shots - probably under more pressure resulting in his shot percentage being down from 18% to 8% and (as was pointed out to me) the power play being stuck in mud.

He is a top-6 player.
HawkintheD
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Sick Bay, MI
Joined: 02.22.2012

Jan 11 @ 8:48 AM ET
But now he is a more complete player - better with the puck - and he has the puck a lot more on a non-Kane line - better on backchecking and puck retrieval. The play he made on Strome’s last goal, I don’t th8nk he makes that play last season.

He’s also getting his shots - probably under more pressure resulting in his shot percentage being down from 18% to 8% and (as was pointed out to me) the power play being stuck in mud.

He is a top-6 player.

- StLBravesFan


He is and like you mention, a younger guy still figuring out how to add defense to his game without sacrificing offense.
DarthKane
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: 5.13.4.9
Joined: 02.23.2012

Jan 11 @ 8:52 AM ET
He is and like you mention, a younger guy still figuring out how to add defense to his game without sacrificing offense.
- HawkintheD



Trade him now, before that horrendous contract kicks in (thanks Stan!).
HawkintheD
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Sick Bay, MI
Joined: 02.22.2012

Jan 11 @ 9:02 AM ET
Trade him now, before that horrendous contract kicks in (thanks Stan!).
- DarthKane


If Stan had waited til after this season to sign him he could have gotten him for $2M or less.

#FAIL
jhawk59
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 02.15.2013

Jan 11 @ 9:07 AM ET
Same. Bi Pilar is tough. Seems the guys like him in the room.

I respect and love what the core guys brought to all of us last decade. I’ll cherish it forever.

However at some point you have to move forward and this continual band aid approach to appease whatever sector of the Fan base they afraid to lose is asinine. It’s not working.

I’m not a gm. I just can stomach a full on tear down. Not saying it’ll ever happen but they tried everything. I don’t blame bowman. He is trying. I liked dehaan maata and carpenter.

I think Nylander deserves two full years to see where he ends up. They can afford to be patient. This team isn’t in the “window” to win so letting kids learn is perfectly ok.

They have some tough calls coming up. Saad is a huge one. Crawford vs lehner is another. I don’t envy bowmans spot but this clinging to playoff hopes is over for me. They are done. So now you decide what you’re doing and you sell where you can and maximize return.

- SteveRain


If ever there is a time to pull back from our fed up, pissed off attitude derived from SOME mismanagement and paying a heavy price for trying to remain competitive, now is that time.

Steve Rain hits the nail on the head on several points. Some of those players or GM, a coach .....fans over react. You can place some blame but most of the time it is hit heads who refuse to change their mind and keep spewing

Yes when the time is right try to move Keith. He migjht be closer to his old form - just a bit slower - with better attitude. That happens with better players around him. The W and L is not so huge; play near .500 but with better support and real hiope from emerging prospects.

Unfortunately this might take a couple of years to unfold. The team needs Mitchell and.msybebCarlsdon to play steady and hope Boqvist steadily improved. Murphy stays because he is a good hockey player just wish he skated better.

Look if you cannot see about the other dmen:
Maate is a bottom pair we don't want once prospects can play well enough to take his job.
Gus is going to be headlights -.how soon.

Gilbert needs to show he can play coverage and not miss assignments first in the AHL like for at least half a season in the AHL. Then he can be considered for bottom pair

Seabrook will return but who knows how well he skates. His stride is not proper- never has been - and he has much wear and tear. Anyone want to claim he can play like L Murphy who was so good at playing angles that he survived although his skating was bad ....ok Seabrook will have to prove he can be like L Murphy and it skate not too bad

Nylander got some support from wiz. Go back and find it. Nylander needs good coaching he is not lacking hockey Iintelligence he just needs to catch up in playing responsible. He needs to be told to back check and be somewhat involved or you go to Rockford.

Eventually he is going to stop some of his dumb decisions. YOU LET HIM TRY TO OVERCOME because you do not have any forthcoming top end offensive players and Nylander has shown glimpse of his top end talent. You can move Nylander if he doesn't improve much after two years.

Colliton: Yeah you have someone whom would put their foot down and some of the veterans would not try to defuse him? You just need to bring in a lot of kids and phase out veterans. Keith should go but not until Mitchell is playing well. Toews is never leaving, ok. Although he is a problem early each season. Adjust your expectation. He has been good enough lately. He should play third line TOI at least sometimes if the team drafts a top six center in 2020

DeBrincat and or Strome need to get back into their scoring form. DeBrincat particularly. I bet he knows the coming off season he needs to train for a body that can do what he used to do. Long term your ideal roster may or may not include both. If The Penn State kid can improve his skating then Strome may leave. But Strome is a big size kid so that means The Penn State kid has to be good at a couple of things pus a yapper. Or the 2020 draft brings us a stud.

Colliton should go but with Crawford at his side and change in playing style the bad coaching is not as bad and the bad on ice performance is not as bad. He has term.on contract so Rocky would have to eat it.

Bowman I trust will draft ok. I do not have full faith in his bringing the team into conyention. However given his constraint to be competitive plus learning from trade and signing mistakes, I believe he is on less steady ground but retains McDonougjh Rocky's support.
Chisoxhawk
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: New Bedford, MA
Joined: 09.24.2012

Jan 11 @ 9:42 AM ET
ROSE COLORED GLASSES. That is what ANYONE has on if they thought the off season acquisitions were going to make a difference....I'm talking about Maata, Carpenter, Smith, Quenneville and Nylander. De Haan is not on the list because despite being slow, he is an exceptional stay at home d-man...and now gone for the season. As I have said for a few years now, Bowman started this disaster when he gave Kane and Toews 10.5 million each. NO DOUBT Kane is worth every penny, Toews NEVER was worth that kind of money...leadership is one thing and if you are going to go down that road then you must be one of the few who think Seabrook's contract is a good one as well because he is a great leader. Leadership in a lockerroom or on a bench is overrated...show me the players who lead by example ON THE ICE WITH RESULTS. Oops I digress, the jump from 6 to 10.5 for both Kane and Toews hindered the Hawks ability to keep players...add in Seabrook's deal...and in Bickell's deal...complete failure at cap management. Trading away Breadman to get Saad back...more failure at the hands of Bowman. Firing Coach Q and hiring Coliton...more failure. If anyone remembers, Denis Savard was fired to bring in Q because we wanted an experienced man leading the team behind the bench...so WTF did Coliton bring to the table??? I've been a Hawks fan since 1969...be prepared folks because we are headed in the direction of the dark days long before we even sniff the glory days ever again.
35Tony0
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Springfield, IL
Joined: 05.10.2015

Jan 11 @ 10:02 AM ET
If ever there is a time to pull back from our fed up, pissed off attitude derived from SOME mismanagement and paying a heavy price for trying to remain competitive, now is that time.

Steve Rain hits the nail on the head on several points. Some of those players or GM, a coach .....fans over react. You can place some blame but most of the time it is hit heads who refuse to change their mind and keep spewing

Yes when the time is right try to move Keith. He migjht be closer to his old form - just a bit slower - with better attitude. That happens with better players around him. The W and L is not so huge; play near .500 but with better support and real hiope from emerging prospects.

Unfortunately this might take a couple of years to unfold. The team needs Mitchell and.msybebCarlsdon to play steady and hope Boqvist steadily improved. Murphy stays because he is a good hockey player just wish he skated better.

Look if you cannot see about the other dmen:
Maate is a bottom pair we don't want once prospects can play well enough to take his job.
Gus is going to be headlights -.how soon.

Gilbert needs to show he can play coverage and not miss assignments first in the AHL like for at least half a season in the AHL. Then he can be considered for bottom pair

Seabrook will return but who knows how well he skates. His stride is not proper- never has been - and he has much wear and tear. Anyone want to claim he can play like L Murphy who was so good at playing angles that he survived although his skating was bad ....ok Seabrook will have to prove he can be like L Murphy and it skate not too bad

Nylander got some support from wiz. Go back and find it. Nylander needs good coaching he is not lacking hockey Iintelligence he just needs to catch up in playing responsible. He needs to be told to back check and be somewhat involved or you go to Rockford.

Eventually he is going to stop some of his dumb decisions. YOU LET HIM TRY TO OVERCOME because you do not have any forthcoming top end offensive players and Nylander has shown glimpse of his top end talent. You can move Nylander if he doesn't improve much after two years.

Colliton: Yeah you have someone whom would put their foot down and some of the veterans would not try to defuse him? You just need to bring in a lot of kids and phase out veterans. Keith should go but not until Mitchell is playing well. Toews is never leaving, ok. Although he is a problem early each season. Adjust your expectation. He has been good enough lately. He should play third line TOI at least sometimes if the team drafts a top six center in 2020

DeBrincat and or Strome need to get back into their scoring form. DeBrincat particularly. I bet he knows the coming off season he needs to train for a body that can do what he used to do. Long term your ideal roster may or may not include both. If The Penn State kid can improve his skating then Strome may leave. But Strome is a big size kid so that means The Penn State kid has to be good at a couple of things pus a yapper. Or the 2020 draft brings us a stud.

Colliton should go but with Crawford at his side and change in playing style the bad coaching is not as bad and the bad on ice performance is not as bad. He has term.on contract so Rocky would have to eat it.

Bowman I trust will draft ok. I do not have full faith in his bringing the team into conyention. However given his constraint to be competitive plus learning from trade and signing mistakes, I believe he is on less steady ground but retains McDonougjh Rocky's support.

- jhawk59


Is or is not Keith's contract subject to the recapture penalty if he retires prior to its term being completed?
(My guess, and hope: he retires a 'Hawk and the team is much better for it.)
35Tony0
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Springfield, IL
Joined: 05.10.2015

Jan 11 @ 10:07 AM ET
ROSE COLORED GLASSES. That is what ANYONE has on if they thought the off season acquisitions were going to make a difference....I'm talking about Maata, Carpenter, Smith, Quenneville and Nylander. De Haan is not on the list because despite being slow, he is an exceptional stay at home d-man...and now gone for the season. As I have said for a few years now, Bowman started this disaster when he gave Kane and Toews 10.5 million each. NO DOUBT Kane is worth every penny, Toews NEVER was worth that kind of money...leadership is one thing and if you are going to go down that road then you must be one of the few who think Seabrook's contract is a good one as well because he is a great leader. Leadership in a lockerroom or on a bench is overrated...show me the players who lead by example ON THE ICE WITH RESULTS. Oops I digress, the jump from 6 to 10.5 for both Kane and Toews hindered the Hawks ability to keep players...add in Seabrook's deal...and in Bickell's deal...complete failure at cap management. Trading away Breadman to get Saad back...more failure at the hands of Bowman. Firing Coach Q and hiring Coliton...more failure. If anyone remembers, Denis Savard was fired to bring in Q because we wanted an experienced man leading the team behind the bench...so WTF did Coliton bring to the table??? I've been a Hawks fan since 1969...be prepared folks because we are headed in the direction of the dark days long before we even sniff the glory days ever again.
- Chisoxhawk


Not often mentioned here are the previous contracts Seabrook signed well below his actual market value at the time he signed them. No way in God's green earth do I ever let Seabrook retire as anything other than a 'Hawk if I'm management. The dude, this year, went from:
Healthy scratch to
A couple nagging things to
Needing THREE in-season, season-ending surgical repairs.

Dude's the quintessential gamer. A baller's baller.
mohel
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 02.08.2013

Jan 11 @ 10:26 AM ET
ROSE COLORED GLASSES. That is what ANYONE has on if they thought the off season acquisitions were going to make a difference....I'm talking about Maata, Carpenter, Smith, Quenneville and Nylander. De Haan is not on the list because despite being slow, he is an exceptional stay at home d-man...and now gone for the season. As I have said for a few years now, Bowman started this disaster when he gave Kane and Toews 10.5 million each. NO DOUBT Kane is worth every penny, Toews NEVER was worth that kind of money...leadership is one thing and if you are going to go down that road then you must be one of the few who think Seabrook's contract is a good one as well because he is a great leader. Leadership in a lockerroom or on a bench is overrated...show me the players who lead by example ON THE ICE WITH RESULTS. Oops I digress, the jump from 6 to 10.5 for both Kane and Toews hindered the Hawks ability to keep players...add in Seabrook's deal...and in Bickell's deal...complete failure at cap management. Trading away Breadman to get Saad back...more failure at the hands of Bowman. Firing Coach Q and hiring Coliton...more failure. If anyone remembers, Denis Savard was fired to bring in Q because we wanted an experienced man leading the team behind the bench...so WTF did Coliton bring to the table??? I've been a Hawks fan since 1969...be prepared folks because we are headed in the direction of the dark days long before we even sniff the glory days ever again.
- Chisoxhawk


If only someone had listened to you!
bogiedoc
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: VA
Joined: 09.27.2011

Jan 11 @ 10:38 AM ET
Is or is not Keith's contract subject to the recapture penalty if he retires prior to its term being completed?
(My guess, and hope: he retires a 'Hawk and the team is much better for it.)

- 35Tony0


duncan keith signed a 13 year contract beginning in 2010-11
he has 3 years left after this year
cap hit 5.3 mil
actual salary is decreasing from 3.5 mil this year
YES..his contract is subject to recapture penalties
Full NMC

given all this he decides..my guess the hawks want to keep him...he can still play, more importantly they want him to teach and mentor bokie and the young dmen...

that is worth his salary alone..

of the 5 kane, seabs, keith, toews, crow...keith is the most likely to remain a ahwk for life....and from my POV that's how it should be..

vabeachbear
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Ft Courage - out in the middle of Indian Country, NC
Joined: 10.17.2011

Jan 11 @ 10:52 AM ET
I know how crow plays out

Stanbo trades him for a pick

Crow signs a 1 year extension with that team thru 2021

Crow signs Back with Hawks for 21/22 season in a bringing back the band move

Dec 2022 - Crow has his one last shift night

So easy!!!

- glennjpawlak22


McD may have to be gone for Crow to get "one more shift"
rpeters01
Season Ticket Holder
Joined: 07.09.2016

Jan 11 @ 10:55 AM ET
He is and like you mention, a younger guy still figuring out how to add defense to his game without sacrificing offense.
- HawkintheD

Everything I hear because I see very few games is that he can't get the puck out of our end?
vabeachbear
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Ft Courage - out in the middle of Indian Country, NC
Joined: 10.17.2011

Jan 11 @ 10:55 AM ET
If Stan had waited til after this season to sign him he could have gotten him for $2M or less.

#FAIL

- HawkintheD


No, if he didn't have his extension, he would have scored 50 goals this year
DarthKane
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: 5.13.4.9
Joined: 02.23.2012

Jan 11 @ 10:56 AM ET
duncan keith signed a 13 year contract beginning in 2010-11
he has 3 years left after this year
cap hit 5.3 mil
actual salary is decreasing from 3.5 mil this year
YES..his contract is subject to recapture penalties
Full NMC

given all this he decides..my guess the hawks want to keep him...he can still play, more importantly they want him to teach and mentor bokie and the young dmen...

that is worth his salary alone..

of the 5 kane, seabs, keith, toews, crow...keith is the most likely to remain a ahwk for life....and from my POV that's how it should be..

- bogiedoc


Agreed. We’d be fortunate to see Keith play his entire career in a Blackhawks jersey.
boilermaker100
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 06.23.2015

Jan 11 @ 11:03 AM ET
Getting back to Lehner's comments about him wanting a fair deal as an UFA, I wonder if Stan is negotiating with him at this time or if Lehner wants to test the market this summer. If Stan is making no progress with the negotiations he should be traded by the TDL to get a return for him.

The Carolina blogger say it may be time for the Canes to look for another goalie. So Lehner to Carolina?? They will probably want to give back either Reimer or Mrazek. They are signed through next year which will give the Hawks a veteran goalie as some insurance if Crow retires or is not re-signed to a short team deal. But a goalie for goalie swap is not enough of a return IMO. Maybe the Hawks can get a pick or prospect thrown in. Hawks can even retain some of Lehner's salary to get a better return.

The ideal situation, while not wishing injury on anyone, is if a contender's goalie goes down soon with a long term injury and is out for the remainder of the regular season. Someone like Vegas' Fleury or Toronto's Andersen comes to mind. I would think that at least a pick and a prospect could be the return from a team like that with a good chance at an extended playoff run.
RaleighHawk
Joined: 03.29.2016

Jan 11 @ 11:10 AM ET
duncan keith signed a 13 year contract beginning in 2010-11
he has 3 years left after this year
cap hit 5.3 mil
actual salary is decreasing from 3.5 mil this year
YES..his contract is subject to recapture penalties
Full NMC

given all this he decides..my guess the hawks want to keep him...he can still play, more importantly they want him to teach and mentor bokie and the young dmen...

that is worth his salary alone..

of the 5 kane, seabs, keith, toews, crow...keith is the most likely to remain a ahwk for life....and from my POV that's how it should be..

- bogiedoc


Of everyone, Keith was the most valuable Hawk during the Cup years. With all his TOI minutes, no one else was as important.
RickJ
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Burlington, ON
Joined: 01.12.2010

Jan 11 @ 11:27 AM ET
Getting back to Lehner's comments about him wanting a fair deal as an UFA, I wonder if Stan is negotiating with him at this time or if Lehner wants to test the market this summer. If Stan is making no progress with the negotiations he should be traded by the TDL to get a return for him.

The Carolina blogger say it may be time for the Canes to look for another goalie. So Lehner to Carolina?? They will probably want to give back either Reimer or Mrazek. They are signed through next year which will give the Hawks a veteran goalie as some insurance if Crow retires or is not re-signed to a short team deal. But a goalie for goalie swap is not enough of a return IMO. Maybe the Hawks can get a pick or prospect thrown in. Hawks can even retain some of Lehner's salary to get a better return.

The ideal situation, while not wishing injury on anyone, is if a contender's goalie goes down soon with a long term injury and is out for the remainder of the regular season. Someone like Vegas' Fleury or Toronto's Andersen comes to mind. I would think that at least a pick and a prospect could be the return from a team like that with a good chance at an extended playoff run.

- boilermaker100

Trust me you never want to see James Reimer in a Hawk's uniform. He is a minor league goaltender who somehow has squeezed a lot of salary out of both Florida and Carolina.

To take him back in trade from Carolina for Lehner, Stan needs to get one of Haydn Fleury or Jake Bean back and a prime draft pick and cash to buy out Reimer with in June.

Carolina is a nice team with good playoff potential and an excellent coach. But with Mrazek and Reimer in goal they won't go far. Could in fact miss the playoffs because of their weakness between the pipes.

HawkintheD
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Sick Bay, MI
Joined: 02.22.2012

Jan 11 @ 11:29 AM ET
No, if he didn't have his extension, he would have scored 50 goals this year
- vabeachbear




Probably...and then cost the Hawks $8M/yr.
HawkintheD
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Sick Bay, MI
Joined: 02.22.2012

Jan 11 @ 11:31 AM ET
Trust me you never want to see James Reimer in a Hawk's uniform. He is a minor league goaltender who somehow has squeezed a lot of salary out of both Florida and Carolina.

To take him back in trade from Carolina for Lehner, Stan needs to get one of Haydn Fleury or Jake Bean back and a prime draft pick and cash to buy out Reimer with in June.

Carolina is a nice team with good playoff potential and an excellent coach. But with Mrazek and Reimer in goal they won't go far. Could in fact miss the playoffs because of their weakness between the pipes.

- RickJ


That's the team I've been thinking if the Hawks end up trading Crow or Lehner. Either would be an upgrade over their current tandem.
RickJ
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Burlington, ON
Joined: 01.12.2010

Jan 11 @ 11:47 AM ET
That's the team I've been thinking if the Hawks end up trading Crow or Lehner. Either would be an upgrade over their current tandem.
- HawkintheD

Lehner would be the target for Carolina I think, not Cro. Or they might turn to Jonathan Quick as a possibility. But they need a big league goaltender for sure down there.

And if Lehner's agent has him convinced that there is a massive Price/Bobrovsky like contract out there for him, good luck with that. Every GM in the league sees how poorly both of those guys are playing for their $10M+ salaries.
EbonyRaptor
Joined: 03.28.2013

Jan 11 @ 11:56 AM ET
I've been fortunate to witness the greatest decade of Hawks hockey in my lifetime - and I was around when they won the Cup in 1961. I also witnessed lots of bad hockey and bad management decisions along the way. I take the good with the bad and truck on.

I can accept losing as part of the cyclical process to getting good enough to win again - what I can't accept is management expecting the fans to deny the reality of the situation allowing them to delay taking the steps necessary to transition through the losing period before getting back to having a competitive team again. That seems to be what's happening right now. I don't believe it's an easy call for them to make - but at some point they need to make that decision and I would say we're either extremely close to that point or already past it.
RickJ
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Burlington, ON
Joined: 01.12.2010

Jan 11 @ 12:01 PM ET
I've been fortunate to witness the greatest decade of Hawks hockey in my lifetime - and I was around when they won the Cup in 1961. I also witnessed lots of bad hockey and bad management decisions along the way. I take the good with the bad and truck on.

I can accept losing as part of the cyclical process to getting good enough to win again - what I can't accept is management expecting the fans to deny the reality of the situation allowing them to delay taking the steps necessary to transition through the losing period before getting back to having a competitive team again. That seems to be what's happening right now. I don't believe it's an easy call for them to make - but at some point they need to make that decision and I would say we're either extremely close to that point or already past it.

- EbonyRaptor


It is also entirely possible that they don't have an amazing grasp of the obvious.
Over the years many other NHL teams have operated in complete denial while nothing changed or improved.
rpeters01
Season Ticket Holder
Joined: 07.09.2016

Jan 11 @ 12:06 PM ET
That's the team I've been thinking if the Hawks end up trading Crow or Lehner. Either would be an upgrade over their current tandem.
- HawkintheD

Taking off the home town glasses I don't think Crow has impressed many GM's he's more than a backup goalie THIS YEAR.
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