That gets interesting....is his value this deadline higher with another year at 6 AAV, or is it this summer or next deadline?

I just don't see where Saad for 7+ AAV fits in on this team that isn't ready to push their chips to the center......
- SteveRain

Saad also has a modified NTC kicking in this summer - 10 teams he can be traded to, which limits trade opportunities for the Hawks next year if they decide to part ways.

If that's what you were referencing yesterday when saying I (and other posters) are different then 95% of the fan base....I would agree.

So lets think about this....we are seeing some "last shifts" that are a new way to dress up the ole "heritage nights" back in 2008-09, and 2009-10. WE also see 80s night.....cup ring replica night....these start to be tells to me they, Hawks, are cognizant to what the "casual" fan interest is.....The Hawks sunk MILLIONS into a very progressive ad campaign to capture that fan and compete for their discretionary dollar so I get their reluctance to NOT rip it down to the studs.....

That's where 1 would think their could be an internal struggle.....the business side needs them to be in the smallest of downturn they can and not do a fire sale, etc....where the hockey ops side may want to trade a big name and get a huge package of sexy prospects to start to build around.....

Bottom line we all want them to win as quickly as possible....some want the old guys to hang around and retire as Hawks and that may limit the ability to completely revamp their rosters....and nut jobs like me have a short memory for the old guys and respect the past but want that process expedited as quickly as possible.

This may floor the board....but the way Bowman navigated the post 2010 cap issue and got them back in the window to where they were realistically a cup favorite for 4 straight years (2013-2016) has earned him the right to tinker with this/grace period.

However, to me....at F.....I don't see a lot of young guys....yet....to get overly excited about. 12 will be fine. 17, still dont' know what he is......and Dach and Nylander need a TON more time to find their consistencies. In 2007-08 and 2008-09 you could see it coming together with Kane/Toews, and most importantly the secondary scoring/D with Buff, Versteeg, Ladd, Bolland, and Hammer.....that;s what I am looking for....guys to get excited about and watch them grow.
- SteveRain

Buff, Bolland and Hammer came from draft selections that were well outside of the Top 20 in those years. You could add Shaw and Kruger to the list as well. Sharp and Versteeg came from what looked to be inconsequential trades at the time.

What's happened since? Other than Debricat, nothing much from the draft unless you want to count Hayden and Sikura. And the trades haven't been real winners either. Plus they gave away Kempny for nothing. And right about now wouldn't he look so much better on the blueline than Gus or Gilbert?

So Stan and his ace scouting department better hope that something good materializes from some of Kurashev, Krys, Soderlund, Carlsson, Barrat, Teply and Galvas.

Buff, Bolland and Hammer came from draft selections that were well outside of the Top 20 in those years. You could add Shaw and Kruger to the list as well. Sharp and Versteeg came from what looked to be inconsequential trades at the time.

What's happened since? Other than Debricat, nothing much from the draft unless you want to count Hayden and Sikura. And the trades haven't been real winners either. Plus they gave away Kempny for nothing. And right about now wouldn't he look so much better on the blueline than Gus or Gilbert?

So Stan and his ace scouting department better hope that something good materializes from some of Kurashev, Krys, Soderlund, Carlsson, Barrat, Teply and Galvas.
- RickJ

Danault and Teravainen would look good on this team right now.

I agree with Reimer not being a top flight goalie and would hope to get something additional in return for a Lehner to Carolina trade. The Canes prospects you mentioned Fleury and Bean are D men. With the Hawks pipeline full of defenseman, I would hope to get a young forward prospect back.
- boilermaker100

I was thinking the same thing. If Lehner is traded to the Canes, ask for a forward prospect instead. Maybe someone like Ryan Suzuki. Plays center, drafted 28th overall last year. Then add in a draft pick.

Danault and Teravainen would look good on this team right now.
- boilermaker100

The Teravainen deal was just the cost of moving Bickell - unfortunate but understandable.

The Danault deal was just inexcusable, a dreadful trade.

As was the Trevor Daley for Scuderi deal.

In all fairness, we don't know whether or not JC and Kane have had off ice discussions about Kane moving up and down the lines to help the younger players develop. If Toews is wearing the C, he's the one who should be playing that role while Kane is on the top line. Those lines will probably change by the 2nd period.
- Dieselhead

In further fairness, The Kid Coach is getting at least input, and maybe orders, from the analytics people in the FO.

Buff, Bolland and Hammer came from draft selections that were well outside of the Top 20 in those years. You could add Shaw and Kruger to the list as well. Sharp and Versteeg came from what looked to be inconsequential trades at the time.

What's happened since? Other than Debricat, nothing much from the draft unless you want to count Hayden and Sikura. And the trades haven't been real winners either. Plus they gave away Kempny for nothing. And right about now wouldn't he look so much better on the blueline than Gus or Gilbert?

So Stan and his ace scouting department better hope that something good materializes from some of Kurashev, Krys, Soderlund, Carlsson, Barrat, Teply and Galvas.
- RickJ

Well said and think that's why this team can't seem to rebound as quickly....they aren't getting the hits on the 2nd tiered and 3rd tiered guys like before.

Im not down on Gilbert as much as others....let the kid play and see where he is at. Gus is a WHOLE other story.

To your point, and I think we are on the same page, they need to make some evaluations and flip some of their guys to other teams for other young players who may not be working out.....This Nylander trade is exhibit A and lets hope he shows some consistencies sooner rather then later but I am far from giving up him....

Good chance McD has done focus groups to determine whether fans will tolerate a tear down. Fans who post on message boards is only a small slice of the fan base. A lot of us can handle a tear down, but a lot want them to compete every year. The big thing is what the less intense fans - who are far more numerous than us - think. Will they buy tickets and stuff during the purge? Biggest question is whether they will come back if they do leave.
- mohel

Good point.

If that's what you were referencing yesterday when saying I (and other posters) are different then 95% of the fan base....I would agree.

So lets think about this....we are seeing some "last shifts" that are a new way to dress up the ole "heritage nights" back in 2008-09, and 2009-10. WE also see 80s night.....cup ring replica night....these start to be tells to me they, Hawks, are cognizant to what the "casual" fan interest is.....The Hawks sunk MILLIONS into a very progressive ad campaign to capture that fan and compete for their discretionary dollar so I get their reluctance to NOT rip it down to the studs.....

That's where 1 would think their could be an internal struggle.....the business side needs them to be in the smallest of downturn they can and not do a fire sale, etc....where the hockey ops side may want to trade a big name and get a huge package of sexy prospects to start to build around.....

Bottom line we all want them to win as quickly as possible....some want the old guys to hang around and retire as Hawks and that may limit the ability to completely revamp their rosters....and nut jobs like me have a short memory for the old guys and respect the past but want that process expedited as quickly as possible.

This may floor the board....but the way Bowman navigated the post 2010 cap issue and got them back in the window to where they were realistically a cup favorite for 4 straight years (2013-2016) has earned him the right to tinker with this/grace period.

However, to me....at F.....I don't see a lot of young guys....yet....to get overly excited about. 12 will be fine. 17, still dont' know what he is......and Dach and Nylander need a TON more time to find their consistencies. In 2007-08 and 2008-09 you could see it coming together with Kane/Toews, and most importantly the secondary scoring/D with Buff, Versteeg, Ladd, Bolland, and Hammer.....that;s what I am looking for....guys to get excited about and watch them grow.
- SteveRain

That is what I meant, and wasn't intended as a negative comment at all.

I think you describe the dilemma well here.

Buff, Bolland and Hammer came from draft selections that were well outside of the Top 20 in those years. You could add Shaw and Kruger to the list as well. Sharp and Versteeg came from what looked to be inconsequential trades at the time.

What's happened since? Other than Debricat, nothing much from the draft unless you want to count Hayden and Sikura. And the trades haven't been real winners either. Plus they gave away Kempny for nothing. And right about now wouldn't he look so much better on the blueline than Gus or Gilbert?

So Stan and his ace scouting department better hope that something good materializes from some of Kurashev, Krys, Soderlund, Carlsson, Barrat, Teply and Galvas.
- RickJ

Picking late they did draft Hartman and dare I remind Tevo. Further back Bickell was drafted and damn good before he got sick. Part of the "17 seconds."

The Teravainen deal was just the cost of moving Bickell - unfortunate but understandable.

The Danault deal was just inexcusable, a dreadful trade.

As was the Trevor Daley for Scuderi deal.
- RickJ

Daley is on Q 100%.

That is what I meant, and wasn't intended as a negative comment at all.

I think you describe the dilemma well here.
- mohel

That's what I figured.....

Thanks.....and I think JC is in a no win situation. Following a HOF coach, a core that was used to operating for a decade 1 way, and a team in transition.

Picking late they did draft Hartman and dare I remind Tevo. Further back Bickell was drafted and damn good before he got sick. Part of the "17 seconds."
- rpeters01

I don't know prospects or depth of drafts.....but you have two ways to build a team....UFA and/or draft.

Id just like to see Bowman acquire as many picks as he can for guys who have value and he wants to deal. Get some cap relief for the next few seasons so when it all hits he has room to lock guys up, etc.

I would think a guy like Carpenter, out of the Sammy Pahlsson, John Madden, etc world would have some value to a team looking for a final piece to make a cup run. Maata as well.

That's what I figured.....

Thanks.....and I think JC is in a no win situation. Following a HOF coach, a core that was used to operating for a decade 1 way, and a team in transition.
- SteveRain

I agree about finding kids to watch. I enjoy watching Dach and Boqvist, and think they can be real keepers. Nylander? Jury is still out, but I agree with giving him rope for a year or two.

I don't know prospects or depth of drafts.....but you have two ways to build a team....UFA and/or draft.

Id just like to see Bowman acquire as many picks as he can for guys who have value and he wants to deal. Get some cap relief for the next few seasons so when it all hits he has room to lock guys up, etc.

I would think a guy like Carpenter, out of the Sammy Pahlsson, John Madden, etc world would have some value to a team looking for a final piece to make a cup run. Maata as well.
- SteveRain

More picks can't hurt. Gotta give Stan props for Panarin and Kubalik, Kahun as well. Those are guys better than drafting after round one.

Daley is on Q 100%.
- rpeters01

Q may have hated Daley's game but I'm sure he didn't choose the museum piece Stan got back from the Penguins for him. A low draft pick in 2050 would have been better.

I've been fortunate to witness the greatest decade of Hawks hockey in my lifetime - and I was around when they won the Cup in 1961. I also witnessed lots of bad hockey and bad management decisions along the way. I take the good with the bad and truck on.

I can accept losing as part of the cyclical process to getting good enough to win again - what I can't accept is management expecting the fans to deny the reality of the situation allowing them to delay taking the steps necessary to transition through the losing period before getting back to having a competitive team again. That seems to be what's happening right now. I don't believe it's an easy call for them to make - but at some point they need to make that decision and I would say we're either extremely close to that point or already past it.
- EbonyRaptor

I couldn't have said it better myself (although I wasn't around in '61).

The Teravainen deal was just the cost of moving Bickell - unfortunate but understandable.

The Danault deal was just inexcusable, a dreadful trade.

As was the Trevor Daley for Scuderi deal.
- RickJ

When you think about it if the Danault trade wasn't made, the Hawks wouldn't have that 2nd round choice which turned out to be Debrincat.
And if you had Danault would Stan have traded Schmaltz for Strome? Too bad the Hawks couldn't have managed the Bickell cap hit differently and kept Teuvo.

Top forwards now would include Toews, Kane, Danault, Schmaltz, Teuvo instead of 19, 88, 12 and 17. Current cap hits aside of course.

Edit - Toews, Kane, Danault, Schmaltz, Teuvo all would have been home grown first round picks which makes the scouting staff look good.

JR finally apologizes

https://twitter.com/Jerem.../1216083146602577920?s=20

Daley is on Q 100%.
- rpeters01

Nonsense! Bowman is the one who traded a serviceable player for a civil war veteran. Blame Q for not playing Daley in his system, blame Bowman for a horrific trade in terms of value.

Buff, Bolland and Hammer came from draft selections that were well outside of the Top 20 in those years. You could add Shaw and Kruger to the list as well. Sharp and Versteeg came from what looked to be inconsequential trades at the time.

What's happened since? Other than Debricat, nothing much from the draft unless you want to count Hayden and Sikura. And the trades haven't been real winners either. Plus they gave away Kempny for nothing. And right about now wouldn't he look so much better on the blueline than Gus or Gilbert?

So Stan and his ace scouting department better hope that something good materializes from some of Kurashev, Krys, Soderlund, Carlsson, Barrat, Teply and Galvas.
- RickJ

All those names you mentioned at the bottom Rick, not a 1 will make this team,better yet none of them will touch any NHL roster,
Hayden for us promising as we thought he was he’s about two years away from working in the trades or carrying a briefcase to work every day using his East Coast college education hopefully to have a good job and just play in a men’s league somewhere. Same with Dylan Sikura and a lot of the other Bowman gems.
I am holding out hope that this Ian Mitchell kid turns in the something.
I hate to sound cynical but at least with some of the other teams the ownership came right out and was upfront with the fans what is going on. I still stand by what I said the word rebuild is not in their vocabulary.

Anaheim tonight, great night for a win!

ROSE COLORED GLASSES. That is what ANYONE has on if they thought the off season acquisitions were going to make a difference...
- Chisoxhawk

Excepting the part where they have to the point where they are hanging around the .500 mark earlier in the season without having to have gone on a massive run like they did last season ... even to get to .500.

Which sounds and looks like a needle movement - even if it isn't a magic wand.

Nonsense! Bowman is the one who traded a serviceable player for a civil war veteran. Blame Q for not playing Daley in his system, blame Bowman for a horrific trade in terms of value.
- kwolf68

Blame their boss for not doing something about a dysfunctional GM/Coach relationship where the GM would trade assets for players that the coach had no intention of using - and there not being any communication from the coach - so that you basically traded players for nothing ...

Daley was only one example ... Fleischmann/Wiese was another example ... Vermette nearly was another ...

You can't blame just one guy on that -- it was the both of them together.

They trade lard ass yet?