I really like Kase. He's having a garbage season, just like the Ducks, but I wish he was a guy we could trade for.

Who are unsafe picks? Not looking for names, but when you are looking at prospects ranked 100-200 who do you think is likely to become elite?
- rmdevil313

Im not sure where you are getting me saying you pick elite players late its possible I wont rule it out but outside of jack and nico who have we drafted with our firsts that are elite ? And how do we get more with out continuing the draft lotttery route ???

I really like Kase. He's having a garbage season, just like the Ducks, but I wish he was a guy we could trade for.
- Pomegrant

I liked him his draft year has he had some injury problems ?

Im not sure where you are getting me saying you pick elite players late its possible I wont rule it out but outside of jack and nico who have we drafted with our firsts that are elite ? And how do we get more with out continuing the draft lotttery route ???
- Devilish4

A better question is who in the league has drafted elite players with their non-first round draft picks from 2015-present. Tell me the players that are young and elite from the 2nd round in these years.

I think Zacha and McLeod were a little more controversial but agree with the rest.
- rmdevil313

Yeah I remember specifically not wanting McLeod at the time, but Brown isn't exactly a world beater either. Some good players went after him, and I seem to recall a lot of love for Chychrun, but the pick wasn't off the board. Zacha I hated the moment it happened. I'll never forget saying "it's gotta be Barzal"

I think all of the 1st rounders we've taken since Shero was around were guys people thought were the "right" picks. Zacha was one that people were happy with but probably the most debated that we could have taken somebody else at the time. McLeod and Ty Smith seemed like picks that most people were happy with. Also, it seems obvious now but there was question if Patrick would be the better player and he's had a lot of injuries in his career so far. Also know it's early but I'm very pleased with Hughes over Kakko. Right now it looks like we're at 4/5 players going to be NHL regulars with McLeod still being a maybe. Which is way better than what we were under Lou with none of our 1st rounders being NHL players for like 6 years straight.
- Pomegrant

We had zero forward depth when we drafted Zacha. I think Johnny Q was our best prospect by a mile. Zacha is an nhl player and I’m fine with him being a top 9 player.
Plus we still had Merrill and Gelinas if I remember right so our D was looking ok.

I did not like the MCloud pick. I really wanted Chychrun but oh well.

I think all of the 1st rounders we've taken since Shero was around were guys people thought were the "right" picks. Zacha was one that people were happy with but probably the most debated that we could have taken somebody else at the time. McLeod and Ty Smith seemed like picks that most people were happy with. Also, it seems obvious now but there was question if Patrick would be the better player and he's had a lot of injuries in his career so far. Also know it's early but I'm very pleased with Hughes over Kakko. Right now it looks like we're at 4/5 players going to be NHL regulars with McLeod still being a maybe. Which is way better than what we were under Lou with none of our 1st rounders being NHL players for like 6 years straight.
- Pomegrant

Outside of Zacha it had been a real long time since Lou drafted as early as Ray has got to so making that comparision is kind of apples and oranges. Lou also won things for us and had to do things that werent smart because of ownership. Ray has stable ownership and has made way higher selections.

Obviously my patience for Lou is much greater and we didnt need to care about prospects because we were winning for many of those years.

Lou takes way to much heat for terrible ownership.

I think Zacha and McLeod were a little more controversial but agree with the rest.
- rmdevil313

I know Todd was really high on Barzal but he was coming off injury so people weren't necessarily sold on him. A lot of other teams passed on him too. Not sure what other players were in the range around McLeod that we were interested in but his skill set was attractive on one of the league's slowest teams, for sure.

A better question is who in the league has drafted elite players with their non-first round draft picks from 2015-present. Tell me the players that are young and elite from the 2nd round in these years.
- Pomegrant

If we are playing this game give me youre definition of elite I wouldnt want to go through the hassle for you to disagree.

Outside of Zacha it had been a real long time since Lou drafted as early as Ray has got to so making that comparision is kind of apples and oranges. Lou also won things for us and had to do things that werent smart because of ownership. Ray has stable ownership and has made way higher selections.

Obviously my patience for Lou is much greater and we didnt need to care about prospects because we were winning for many of those years.

Lou takes way to much heat for terrible ownership.
- Devilish4

I don't think you remember just how hopeless that team was when he left.

If we are playing this game give me youre definition of elite I wouldnt want to go through the hassle for you to disagree.
- Devilish4

i'm not trying to "gotcha" you here, it's about you saying that he should have done a better job finding top end players after the 1st round and I'm wondering what top end players were even to be had. If you come up with some a legitimate critique of his drafting I'm all ears.

Im not sure where you are getting me saying you pick elite players late its possible I wont rule it out but outside of jack and nico who have we drafted with our firsts that are elite ? And how do we get more with out continuing the draft lotttery route ???
- Devilish4

Well you label every one of our draft picks as "safe". Clearly there has to be an unsafe type of player that becomes elite. I was wondering how you differentiate the two.

i'm not trying to "gotcha" you here, it's about you saying that he should have done a better job finding top end players after the 1st round and I'm wondering what top end players were even to be had. If you come up with some a legitimate critique of his drafting I'm all ears.
- Pomegrant

I dont recall saying that I just didnt want to get in a situation where someone was female doging that mid round picks are just as valuable so I didnt want to discredit that.

This all goes to my opinion on Ray because what is the direction ? If this is year 4 of him at the helm and he needs another 3 top 3 picks to add or along that talent level how many years away does that leave us and should he be given that much time ?

I just want the team to be good if that means bombing for top picks for more years fine but be honest about it and if is Ray still the guy to be leading us ?

No one answered how many years he should have to do his job what ever it is maybe its not to win a stanley cup ( obviously he miles away from that )

Well you label every one of our draft picks as "safe". Clearly there has to be an unsafe type of player that becomes elite. I was wondering how you differentiate the two.
- rmdevil313

Its the same as with math right you go with averages no ? Every now and again you might get a guy take a mad leap out of no were but is that the norm ? Judging off draft selection and production pre and post draft you can see very few are the elite of their leagues so would it be smart for me to go around tossing money out that these guys are going to be elite based of that knowledge ? No didnt think so.

Quote me saying Ray should be fired today because of this season and not because of some conclussion you came to reading a comment I made.

If i wanted Ray fired it would be for his 4 years here and the lack of direction at this point in his tenure.


- Devilish4

How am I supposed to interpret this?

As for the rest, I don't think anyone here or in the organization thought the rebuild was over when we made the playoffs. And Ray never made moves that put us all in on making the playoffs.

Well you label every one of our draft picks as "safe". Clearly there has to be an unsafe type of player that becomes elite. I was wondering how you differentiate the two.
- rmdevil313

Again when I post we take everything literally but not when you or others lmao.

Because I am saying we tend to draft safe that means I have said we only draft safe.

If you're not willing to go through the drafts and find the impact players that Shero could have drafted to make this roster better, faster, I don't really know what you're arguing about. Because then you clearly are misinformed about how drafting and development of players works.

Its the same as with math right you go with averages no ? Every now and again you might get a guy take a mad leap out of no were but is that the norm ? Judging off draft selection and production pre and post draft you can see very few are the elite of their leagues so would it be smart for me to go around tossing money out that these guys are going to be elite based of that knowledge ? No didnt think so.
- Devilish4

I just want to know how you came to the conclusion that our draft picks were safe picks with low ceilings.

How am I supposed to interpret this?

As for the rest, I don't think anyone here or in the organization thought the rebuild was over when we made the playoffs. And Ray never made moves that put us all in on making the playoffs.
- rmdevil313

And what would he have had to do to qualify as going all in ?

And what would he have had to do to qualify as going all in ?
- Devilish4

What Columbus did last year was definitely what "going all in" looks like. Sold the farm for a chance to compete.

How am I supposed to interpret this?

As for the rest, I don't think anyone here or in the organization thought the rebuild was over when we made the playoffs. And Ray never made moves that put us all in on making the playoffs.
- rmdevil313

You dont I guess as you either keep putting words into my mouth or aking everything I say literally which you wouldnt unless youre just nit picking.

Hey guys guess what? We won a game tonight.

And what would he have had to do to qualify as going all in ?
- Devilish4

Trading 1st round draft picks, good prospects, and young roster players for established players. And before you try and suggest subban, none of the pieces moved qualify.

I just want to know how you came to the conclusion that our draft picks were safe picks with low ceilings.
- rmdevil313

Ok and I told you them also not being listed in top ranking but hey you will never believe it because I said it.

Ok and I told you them also not being listed in top ranking but hey you will never believe it because I said it.
- Devilish4

And what players were crazy reaches based on their draft rankings? Hell, I think most of our draft picks were ranked higher than where they were drafted.