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Forums :: Blog World :: Michael Stuart: Evaluating Cody Ceci vs. Nikita Zaitsev
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Michael Stuart
Ottawa Senators
Location: "Caresi > Corsi"
Joined: 10.24.2011

Nov 8 @ 10:37 AM ET
Michael Stuart: Evaluating Cody Ceci vs. Nikita Zaitsev
poopstash
Los Angeles Kings
Joined: 03.21.2015

Nov 8 @ 10:59 AM ET
Charts shmarts!

You and your "facts"



That trade is now what is was then: 2 crappy D swapped, one of whom was on long-term contract so Ottawa got Brown as a decent (and affordable) throw-in and Toronto freed up some cap space

Michael Stuart
Ottawa Senators
Location: "Caresi > Corsi"
Joined: 10.24.2011

Nov 8 @ 11:06 AM ET
Charts shmarts!

You and your "facts"




That trade is now what is was then: 2 crappy D swapped, one of whom was on long-term contract so Ottawa got Brown as a decent (and affordable) throw-in and Toronto freed up some cap space

- poopstash


Torontosensfan
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 08.03.2019

Nov 8 @ 11:11 AM ET
zaitsev is +2 playing vs top lines all year and heavy minutes on pk. on a bottom feeder team thats quite good.

I haven't noticed him a ton in the games I've watched, which is a good thing.

He blocks a ton of shots, battles hard in front of the net, crisp clean d zone outlet passes. He comes as advertised.

speaking of ceci, nice apple last night to pacioretty
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Nov 8 @ 11:12 AM ET
Jesus. zaitsev is plus 2, plays 24 minutes a game against the other teams top players and somebody says some other numbers are more important.

and then to dd insult to injury tells us that Ceci is better. total nonsense.

last year we were told over and over again that Ceci had bad magical numbers.

this year he has better magical numbers.

the only thing this demonstrates is the magical numbers are worth Bean Sprouts
Michael Stuart
Ottawa Senators
Location: "Caresi > Corsi"
Joined: 10.24.2011

Nov 8 @ 11:14 AM ET
Jesus. zaitsev is plus 2, plays 24 minutes a game against the other teams top players and somebody says some other numbers are more important.

and then to dd insult to injury tells us that Ceci is better. total nonsense.

last year we were told over and over again that Ceci had bad magical numbers.

this year he has better magical numbers.


the only thing this demonstrates is the magical numbers are worth Bean Sprouts

- spatso


They're still bad. Zaitsev's are just worse.
Michael Stuart
Ottawa Senators
Location: "Caresi > Corsi"
Joined: 10.24.2011

Nov 8 @ 11:16 AM ET
zaitsev is +2 playing vs top lines all year and heavy minutes on pk. on a bottom feeder team thats quite good.

I haven't noticed him a ton in the games I've watched, which is a good thing.

He blocks a ton of shots, battles hard in front of the net, crisp clean d zone outlet passes. He comes as advertised.

speaking of ceci, nice apple last night to pacioretty

- Torontosensfan


He blocks a lot of shots because his teammates never have the puck when he's on the ice.

ahjnkn
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 09.16.2008

Nov 8 @ 11:25 AM ET
None of this matters in terms of the value of the trade unless Brown`s impressive numbers and season are also taken into account. The weighted average of his and Zaitsev`s advanced stats should be used to compare overall outcomes to what Ceci is doing.

The trade was not a direct Zaitsev for Ceci swap, it was Ceci+ for Zaitsev+. We likely won the trade given our team`s leading scorer was a part of it.

Gord_Wilson_2.0
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 10.11.2011

Nov 8 @ 11:33 AM ET
A strange blog in my opinion. Both are terrible and I don’t want either on my team. The deal was your classic salary cap era deal.

Arguing who is better is the weakest pissing contest ever or one of those brutal “would you rather” games.

Interesting to hear some of the comments (Twitter and question period on TSN) about a Pagaeu extension. Doesn’t seems to be a whole lot of chatter and a lot of assumption that Dorion will eventually discuss one. When I read in between the lines, I feel a trade is immanent down the line. Of course, early on, but interesting to hear with his mini hot streak.
Michael Stuart
Ottawa Senators
Location: "Caresi > Corsi"
Joined: 10.24.2011

Nov 8 @ 11:38 AM ET
A strange blog in my opinion. Both are terrible and I don’t want either on my team. The deal was your classic salary cap era deal.

Arguing who is better is the weakest pissing contest ever or one of those brutal “would you rather” games.

Interesting to hear some of the comments (Twitter and question period on TSN) about a Pagaeu extension. Doesn’t seems to be a whole lot of chatter and a lot of assumption that Dorion will eventually discuss one. When I read in between the lines, I feel a trade is immanent down the line. Of course, early on, but interesting to hear with his mini hot streak.

- Gord_Wilson_2.0


Assuming that they can get good value (i.e. a 1st) out of him, I wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger. He's done so much good, but reality is that by the time this team is ready to compete he'll be on the other side of 30.
SolidGoldBricks
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Robidas Island, MI
Joined: 10.30.2013

Nov 8 @ 11:40 AM ET
No mention of Brown (in the blog). He makes the trade a lot more even. I don't think this trade has led to any surprises, but it definitely wasn't Ceci for Zaitsev. It was Ceci for Brown with a bad salary going the other way.
Michael Stuart
Ottawa Senators
Location: "Caresi > Corsi"
Joined: 10.24.2011

Nov 8 @ 11:42 AM ET
No mention of Brown (in the blog). He makes the trade a lot more even. I don't think this trade has led to any surprises, but it definitely wasn't Ceci for Zaitsev. It was Ceci for Brown with a bad salary going the other way.
- SolidGoldBricks


The closing paragraph says that the question for Ottawa is whether Brown was enough of a sweetener to make it worth the downgrade on D.

Purpose wasn't to re-litigate the trade - I don't doubt that Ottawa would make it again. But rather to dispel the notion that this was some slam dunk upgrade on D, too. There's been a lot of that talk on Twitter.

Gord_Wilson_2.0
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 10.11.2011

Nov 8 @ 11:53 AM ET
Assuming that they can get good value (i.e. a 1st) out of him, I wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger. He's done so much good, but reality is that by the time this team is ready to compete he'll be on the other side of 30.
- Michael_Stuart

To me, that is a big kicker. If he isn’t going to be part of the plan when this team is set to be good again, why wouldn’t you try to maximize his trade value now?

I get that he is a fan favourite, a veteran presence, and you must have bodies to fill the roster. However, to counter those points:
- This team has traded away fan favourites before, why stop with Pag of all players?
- Adding veterans is easily done through free agency. Look at Hainsey. Signed him and gave him the “A”. Additionally, you will not need as many veterans in one years time if the current young group progresses properly.
- You can fill the roster out in the rebuild years with other guys with shorter contracts that won’t become cap crunches (remember who owns this team) down the road.
If Pag can be signed to a reasonable deal, then not the end of the world, I am just in the mindset that we should be acquiring as many picks and prospects now so they are more likely to be ready in 3-4 years. To me is silly to keep guys with the best trade value in a rebuild scenario if they are not building blocks to build around.
Michael Stuart
Ottawa Senators
Location: "Caresi > Corsi"
Joined: 10.24.2011

Nov 8 @ 11:54 AM ET
To me, that is a big kicker. If he isn’t going to be part of the plan when this team is set to be good again, why wouldn’t you try to maximize his trade value now?

I get that he is a fan favourite, a veteran presence, and you must have bodies to fill the roster. However, to counter those points:
- This team has traded away fan favourites before, why stop with Pag of all players?
- Adding veterans is easily done through free agency. Look at Hainsey. Signed him and gave him the “A”. Additionally, you will not need as many veterans in one years time if the current young group progresses properly.
- You can fill the roster out in the rebuild years with other guys with shorter contracts that won’t become cap crunches (remember who owns this team) down the road.
If Pag can be signed to a reasonable deal, then not the end of the world, I am just in the mindset that we should be acquiring as many picks and prospects now so they are more likely to be ready in 3-4 years. To me is silly to keep guys with the best trade value in a rebuild scenario if they are not building blocks to build around.

- Gord_Wilson_2.0


Agreed on all fronts.
SolidGoldBricks
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Robidas Island, MI
Joined: 10.30.2013

Nov 8 @ 12:16 PM ET
The closing paragraph says that the question for Ottawa is whether Brown was enough of a sweetener to make it worth the downgrade on D.

Purpose wasn't to re-litigate the trade - I don't doubt that Ottawa would make it again. But rather to dispel the notion that this was some slam dunk upgrade on D, too. There's been a lot of that talk on Twitter.

- Michael_Stuart


Ah I missed it!
B-Wforever
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: toronto, ON
Joined: 09.16.2010

Nov 8 @ 12:51 PM ET
I don't now why this is even a comparable.

Zaitsev was never a bad defensemen. He hits hard, blocks shots and can disrupt a cycle with his corner work. The knock on Zaitsev, and why he didn't work in Toronto, is his puck handling ability, and being unable to make that first pass out of the dzone.
On a contending team he is way overpaid, but on a team that can afford his contract, he is not a bad dman to have on your roster.

Ceci was what the leafs had to take on for one year to get rid of Zaitsev's multi-year deal. He is a one year reclamation project to see if maybe the leafs can make something of him and to be honest he has been less of a disappointment than Tyson Barrie so far. I wouldn't be shocked to see Ceci traded before the deadline if he garners any value by then.

Jordo
Ottawa Senators
Location: 40 minute busride from downtow, ON
Joined: 06.27.2007

Nov 8 @ 1:27 PM ET
I don't now why this is even a comparable.

Zaitsev was never a bad defensemen. He hits hard, blocks shots and can disrupt a cycle with his corner work. The knock on Zaitsev, and why he didn't work in Toronto, is his puck handling ability, and being unable to make that first pass out of the dzone.
On a contending team he is way overpaid, but on a team that can afford his contract, he is not a bad dman to have on your roster.

Ceci was what the leafs had to take on for one year to get rid of Zaitsev's multi-year deal. He is a one year reclamation project to see if maybe the leafs can make something of him and to be honest he has been less of a disappointment than Tyson Barrie so far. I wouldn't be shocked to see Ceci traded before the deadline if he garners any value by then.


Spoiler alert- he won't
AlexBoucher
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 02.19.2017

Nov 8 @ 1:53 PM ET
I don't now why this is even a comparable.

Zaitsev was never a bad defensemen. He hits hard, blocks shots and can disrupt a cycle with his corner work. The knock on Zaitsev, and why he didn't work in Toronto, is his puck handling ability, and being unable to make that first pass out of the dzone.
On a contending team he is way overpaid, but on a team that can afford his contract, he is not a bad dman to have on your roster.

Ceci was what the leafs had to take on for one year to get rid of Zaitsev's multi-year deal. He is a one year reclamation project to see if maybe the leafs can make something of him and to be honest he has been less of a disappointment than Tyson Barrie so far. I wouldn't be shocked to see Ceci traded before the deadline if he garners any value by then.

- B-Wforever

javascript:emoticon('')

Just from the eye test alone, Zaitsev has been solid. He has quietly been one of our most consistent defenseman. Hes not a top 3 d by any means, but we weren't aiming to get that. Despite the underlying numbers, I just don't see it. Obviously their not setting the bar high, but Ceci was atrocious at pretty much everything. Very content with Zaitsev
bikeguy99
New Jersey Devils
Joined: 09.05.2017

Nov 8 @ 4:31 PM ET
Michael Stuart: Evaluating Cody Ceci vs. Nikita Zaitsev
- Michael_Stuart


It ok. These things happen, and have long term benefits. As a Devils fan, I would like to thank Kinkaid and Lovejoy for all the help they gave us in drafting Nico and Hughes! Zaitsev may help you more than Ceci ever could
AxlRose91
Joined: 09.24.2013

Nov 8 @ 6:05 PM ET
I don't now why this is even a comparable.

Zaitsev was never a bad defensemen. He hits hard, blocks shots and can disrupt a cycle with his corner work. The knock on Zaitsev, and why he didn't work in Toronto, is his puck handling ability, and being unable to make that first pass out of the dzone.
On a contending team he is way overpaid, but on a team that can afford his contract, he is not a bad dman to have on your roster.

Ceci was what the leafs had to take on for one year to get rid of Zaitsev's multi-year deal. He is a one year reclamation project to see if maybe the leafs can make something of him and to be honest he has been less of a disappointment than Tyson Barrie so far. I wouldn't be shocked to see Ceci traded before the deadline if he garners any value by then.

- B-Wforever


He hits hard?? Pardon? Zaitsev has never hit anyone in his life. What are you watching?
sensarmy_11
Location: NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Nov 8 @ 7:48 PM ET
sorry, didn't read the blog, maybe you said it.

the one thing i like much more about Zaitsev is that he doesn't make 3-4 "holy poop" face palm mistakes every game......1-2 of which always ended up in the back of ottawa's net.

My opinion, zaitsev is bad, ceci is (frank)ING TERRIBLE. i'd rather have neither, but if i had to pick between the 2, i'd take zaitsev. getting brown on top of it was just a bonus
PavohnDatsvares
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.03.2016

Saturday @ 10:05 PM ET
Having missed maybe 5 games total in the last 5 or 6 years, I can tell you for a fact that Ceci is worse than Zaitsev. At least once or twice a game for years I'd curse Ceci for doing stupid sh!t with the puck. I don't do that with Zaitsev.

What you witness in game day in and day out is a far better judge of success or failure than advanced statistics which factor in so many variables. Pageau leads the league in +/-. Does that mean he's the best defensive forward in the league? Statistically it does. But in the reality of what we have watched on the ice for years, we know that is not the case.

I studied statistics in university, and one of the first things we learned is that statistical data can be manipulated and spun to support just about any argument.

In closing; Cody Ceci sucks, and he can go 'you know what' himself.

GO SENS GO!!
PavohnDatsvares
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.03.2016

Saturday @ 10:10 PM ET
Assuming that they can get good value (i.e. a 1st) out of him, I wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger. He's done so much good, but reality is that by the time this team is ready to compete he'll be on the other side of 30.
- Michael_Stuart


All... day... long. Pageau, Boro, and Andy are the only 'Sens of old' remaining in this complete roster overhaul. I love all three of those guys, but let's finish the purge. (I excluded Bobby' s name because his contract makes him virtually untradeable)
Michael Stuart
Ottawa Senators
Location: "Caresi > Corsi"
Joined: 10.24.2011

Saturday @ 11:33 PM ET
Having missed maybe 5 games total in the last 5 or 6 years, I can tell you for a fact that Ceci is worse than Zaitsev. At least once or twice a game for years I'd curse Ceci for doing stupid sh!t with the puck. I don't do that with Zaitsev.

What you witness in game day in and day out is a far better judge of success or failure than advanced statistics which factor in so many variables. Pageau leads the league in +/-. Does that mean he's the best defensive forward in the league? Statistically it does. But in the reality of what we have watched on the ice for years, we know that is not the case.

I studied statistics in university, and one of the first things we learned is that statistical data can be manipulated and spun to support just about any argument.

In closing; Cody Ceci sucks, and he can go 'you know what' himself.

GO SENS GO!!

- PavohnDatsvares


Nobody would draw that conclusion from +/-
PavohnDatsvares
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.03.2016

Sunday @ 5:12 PM ET
Nobody would draw that conclusion from +/-
- Michael_Stuart


Precisely my point.