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Forums :: Blog World :: Bill Meltzer: Wrap: Flyers Claim 3-2 OT win over Habs, Price Steals a Point; Morin
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xShoot4WarAmpsx
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Hamilton, ON
Joined: 06.25.2010

Nov 8 @ 10:45 AM ET
nice of you to tell him he should quit. If the kid has it in him to work his way back, and i would bet he does, I hope very much he does and has a career.
- nastyflyergirl


What career can you really expect of the kid at this point? How many times does he have to tear his ACL?

I would love for the kid to be able to live his dream but the reality is that he is now missing 3 years of development years. An NHL career is not likely for him and he is better off working. He doesnt just have to develop he has to be better than everyone else ahead of him and I dont see that happening.
sjk540
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Hoboken, NJ
Joined: 01.28.2016

Nov 8 @ 10:46 AM ET
With Myers it’s hard to know his ceiling right now. He has potential to be really amazing if he continues to grow. Could he develop into a top pair D? Why not

I think the G with Farabee is going to take off. G is just kinda getting back into playing center and I hope he and Farabee get some chemistry. Also hoping that Hayes and Voracek together will develop something.

- Marc D


it makes me happy that G is getting back into being a C for sure, especially if Patrick doesn't come back. Neurological issues are so unpredictable, who knows what will happen.

If Patrick does come back though, what would you do with the lines? personally, I would move Hayes back up with G and Farabee, obv keep the 2nd line in tact, and have Patrick centering JVR andVvoracek.

Thats is such a stacked top 9 it's absurd. that 3rd line should dominate puck possession against lesser competition. And even a 4th line of Raffl-Laughton-Twarynski/Pitlick/Vorobyev would stack up real well. on paper may be the best forward corps since 2010
sjk540
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Hoboken, NJ
Joined: 01.28.2016

Nov 8 @ 10:47 AM ET
MJL is acting like Hackstoll single handily brought these kids along and would be horrible without him.
- ClaudeFather


which as anyone with a brain can see, is absolutely absurd. these kids took off the moment Hakstol was fired, it's plain for everyone to see, the numbers do not lie. its almost like they did it in spite of Hak.

I dont think its out of the realm of possibility to suggest Hakstol was a detriment to our young guys development stages.

Just5
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: PA
Joined: 05.22.2008

Nov 8 @ 10:53 AM ET
it makes me happy that G is getting back into being a C for sure, especially if Patrick doesn't come back. Neurological issues are so unpredictable, who knows what will happen.

If Patrick does come back though, what would you do with the lines? personally, I would move Hayes back up with G and Farabee, obv keep the 2nd line in tact, and have Patrick centering JVR andVvoracek.

Thats is such a stacked top 9 it's absurd. that 3rd line should dominate puck possession against lesser competition. And even a 4th line of Raffl-Laughton-Twarynski/Pitlick/Vorobyev would stack up real well. on paper may be the best forward corps since 2010

- sjk540


Hate to say it but don’t waste your time worrying about Patrick
opeth_pa
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: The Implication
Joined: 12.13.2011

Nov 8 @ 10:53 AM ET
Present and accounted for after a win. Roll call must be taken.
I know a lot of tools on this site worry about who posts when. They should get a life.

I think the team is improved. Vigneault is a credible coach, who has had a good career. As I said when he was hired I expect the team to be competitive under him.

The Morin situation is unfortunate. Feel bad for him as a person, lot of hard work to get to this point, and his dreams will be likely shattered.

- PLindbergh31



Agreed with everything you said.

I really like the coaching staff as a whole right now.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Nov 8 @ 10:54 AM ET
Not nothing but the onus is on the player, did Therrien/Bylsma make Crosby the best player, no he wanted it. The player has to put in the work, the coach is not some almighty being leading the way.
- ClaudeFather


Of course it's ultimately up to the player. That's doesn't mean that the corrective action the coach took to push the player in the right direction should be ignored or dismissed as a helping part of the process.
xShoot4WarAmpsx
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Hamilton, ON
Joined: 06.25.2010

Nov 8 @ 10:58 AM ET
which as anyone with a brain can see, is absolutely absurd. these kids took off the moment Hakstol was fired, it's plain for everyone to see, the numbers do not lie.
- sjk540


They do lie. Hak is not the reason why he improved and why he didnt take off. It is a simple as he struggled to start, adapted to being an NHL pro and succeeded. A players NHL growth is on him and him alone. The coach is there to help guide him.

The numbers do lie because people go on about how great Gordon was and his winning percentage for the entire year was not much better than Hakstol.

Gordon went 25-22-4 - 52.9% Winning %
Hak went 12-15-4 - 45% Winning %

You are looking at a 8% difference. This also ignores the fact that just as usual the team got hot in January\Feburary like they always do. The numbers also dont show how Gordon had the benefit of Carter Hart
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Nov 8 @ 10:58 AM ET
no its not. so what you're saying is that every single time a young player improves, a head coach had a hand in it every time?!

yeah, that's not even close to being something you can prove.

now if you mean the coaching staff, well then yeah that's a given, who else. but it isn't absurd to think that Hakstol had nothing to do with say, Lindblom's development, it could have been Lappy, or Knoblauch or even gordon exclusively working with him. very real possibilities here.

- sjk540


Yes it is. Yes it is something that can be proven. What do you think coaches do? Just sit back and let the players continue to do what they want even if it's not the correct way to play. This is a hilarious response here by you. The head coach is in charge of every aspect of the team. He is in charge of setting the systems play and how he wants players to play. Coaching staffs have meetings and video review to go over individual players play on a regular basis. Are you suggesting in my premise that Lappy and Knoblauch were the coaches who limited Konecny's ice time independently of the head coach?
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Nov 8 @ 10:59 AM ET
MJL is acting like Hackstoll single handily brought these kids along and would be horrible without him.
- ClaudeFather





That's just your ridiculous take on it. Not my problem.
backfire
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Lancaster, PA
Joined: 08.07.2018

Nov 8 @ 11:00 AM ET
" although he can be placed on LTIR if the space is needed under the ceiling"

Bill why wouldn't they put him on LTIR? Something I'm missing here? Also wondering why they are not doing this with Patrick to preserve cap space, although I do gather that he could be ready on short notice.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Nov 8 @ 11:00 AM ET
With Myers it’s hard to know his ceiling right now. He has potential to be really amazing if he continues to grow. Could he develop into a top pair D? Why not

I think the G with Farabee is going to take off. G is just kinda getting back into playing center and I hope he and Farabee get some chemistry. Also hoping that Hayes and Voracek together will develop something.

- Marc D


Myers played like a first pairing defender last night.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Nov 8 @ 11:01 AM ET
What career can you really expect of the kid at this point? How many times does he have to tear his ACL?

I would love for the kid to be able to live his dream but the reality is that he is now missing 3 years of development years. An NHL career is not likely for him and he is better off working. He doesnt just have to develop he has to be better than everyone else ahead of him and I dont see that happening.

- xShoot4WarAmpsx


He could still have a career as a player in the AHL or over in Europe.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Nov 8 @ 11:01 AM ET
" although he can be placed on LTIR if the space is needed under the ceiling"

Bill why wouldn't they put him on LTIR? Something I'm missing here? Also wondering why they are not doing this with Patrick to preserve cap space, although I do gather that he could be ready on short notice.

- backfire


Placing a player on LTIR does not in any way preserve cap space.
sjk540
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Hoboken, NJ
Joined: 01.28.2016

Nov 8 @ 11:06 AM ET
Hate to say it but don’t waste your time worrying about Patrick
- Just5


why not?
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Nov 8 @ 11:07 AM ET
which as anyone with a brain can see, is absolutely absurd. these kids took off the moment Hakstol was fired, it's plain for everyone to see, the numbers do not lie. its almost like they did it in spite of Hak.

I dont think its out of the realm of possibility to suggest Hakstol was a detriment to our young guys development stages.

- sjk540



Did Provorov take off the minute Hakstol was fired? How about Gostisbehere? Did either Provorov or Gostisbehere have strong seasons under Hakstol? Provorov led all NHL defenseman in goal scoring under Hakstol

Konecny also had strong seasons playing under Hakstol and improved from a 11 goal 28 point player to a 24 goal 47 point player from his rookie year to his second season under Hakstol.

The numbers don't lie! LMAO
xShoot4WarAmpsx
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Hamilton, ON
Joined: 06.25.2010

Nov 8 @ 11:08 AM ET
Present and accounted for after a win. Roll call must be taken.
I know a lot of tools on this site worry about who posts when. They should get a life.

I think the team is improved. Vigneault is a credible coach, who has had a good career. As I said when he was hired I expect the team to be competitive under him.

The Morin situation is unfortunate. Feel bad for him as a person, lot of hard work to get to this point, and his dreams will be likely shattered.

- PLindbergh31


When you post does matter. Yes people have lives but how does life control the fact that people only post to complain about something after a loss and never comment when the team is winning? Being busy happens regardless of winning or losing. People who are here often notice trends.

Frankly I come here when I am bored which is when Im at work mostly and during games
Pompous
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Ruskin, FL
Joined: 02.19.2014

Nov 8 @ 11:08 AM ET
The reason I was supportive of Morin was that my daughter had a complete tear of her ACL. Not pleasant.
The reason I am submitting this is that knees vary greatly. We discovered our kid's complete tear was because of SOME pain upon use and a bit of swelling. She had no overt signs (Drawer Sign in particular) or affects displayed upon normal usage. Her orthopedist decided to do a scope since the symptoms did not resolve or even fade and that was when it was revealed to be completely GONE.
Did rehab.
She continued to play soccer with a brace and gained a scholarship while wearing that brace. First college game and she hit a chuckhole. Surgery done at UNC by the ortho Dean, he screwed up and necessitated another procedure to address his failings. End of soccer and a bit of early arthritis.
The issue is how well built Morin's knee was from his adult evolvement and the results of his surgery. It would seem his geometry is off and if I were he, I would collect my insurance, salary etc and get a degree in something I would like to work in.
Hockey is not what he was made for.
I hope I am wrong but it's not likely.
sjk540
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Hoboken, NJ
Joined: 01.28.2016

Nov 8 @ 11:09 AM ET
They do lie. Hak is not the reason why he improved and why he didnt take off. It is a simple as he struggled to start, adapted to being an NHL pro and succeeded. A players NHL growth is on him and him alone. The coach is there to help guide him.

The numbers do lie because people go on about how great Gordon was and his winning percentage for the entire year was not much better than Hakstol.

Gordon went 25-22-4 - 52.9% Winning %
Hak went 12-15-4 - 45% Winning %

You are looking at a 8% difference. This also ignores the fact that just as usual the team got hot in January\Feburary like they always do. The numbers also dont show how Gordon had the benefit of Carter Hart

- xShoot4WarAmpsx


Im really not even talking about anything you mentioned, Im more talking about the individual statistics and underlying numbers of certain young players, such as Lindblom, Konecny, Sanheim, etc. The numbers with Hak and the numbers away from Hak do not lie, they are better without him and it was a detriment to them when he was here.
sjk540
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Hoboken, NJ
Joined: 01.28.2016

Nov 8 @ 11:11 AM ET
Yes it is. Yes it is something that can be proven. What do you think coaches do? Just sit back and let the players continue to do what they want even if it's not the correct way to play. This is a hilarious response here by you. The head coach is in charge of every aspect of the team. He is in charge of setting the systems play and how he wants players to play. Coaching staffs have meetings and video review to go over individual players play on a regular basis. Are you suggesting in my premise that Lappy and Knoblauch were the coaches who limited Konecny's ice time independently of the head coach?
- MJL


yeah everything is either a hilarious response, or the most ridiculous post you've ever heard, or its an absurd thought. your shtick is so so tired, but i digress...

To answer your last part, no, it was Hakstol who ultimately decides the lineup, so it was him who limited their ice time.

Plain and simple, do you think Konecny and Lindblom are better than Lehtera, Weise, et al? If you do, then you cannot agree with the way hakstol employed them. Further more, both players enjoyed more success without Hak than with him. And not like a gradual thing that happened throughout the season, it was immediate when he left. That is not coincidence, that was a head coach hindering his young guys for absolutely no reason. it's evident, and the numbers prove it.
ClaudeFather
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: west haven, CT
Joined: 08.14.2015

Nov 8 @ 11:12 AM ET
Did Provorov take off the minute Hakstol was fired? How about Gostisbehere? Did either Provorov or Gostisbehere have strong seasons under Hakstol? Provorov led all NHL defenseman in goal scoring under Hakstol

Konecny also had strong seasons playing under Hakstol and improved from a 11 goal 28 point player to a 24 goal 47 point player from his rookie year to his second season under Hakstol.

The numbers don't lie! LMAO

- MJL

Provy and Ghost both has success and sucked under Hackstoll so with your logic he is an inconsistent crap coach. You're take is so bad it's unbelievable. TK didn't progress in his third year, what was Hak doing?? The numbers don't lie!!!
sjk540
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Hoboken, NJ
Joined: 01.28.2016

Nov 8 @ 11:13 AM ET
Did Provorov take off the minute Hakstol was fired? How about Gostisbehere? Did either Provorov or Gostisbehere have strong seasons under Hakstol? Provorov led all NHL defenseman in goal scoring under Hakstol

Konecny also had strong seasons playing under Hakstol and improved from a 11 goal 28 point player to a 24 goal 47 point player from his rookie year to his second season under Hakstol.

The numbers don't lie! LMAO

- MJL


haha yea he pretty much did. same with Lindblom, same with Sanheim. Hakstol basically refused to play Sanheim over guys like Amac and brandon manning. It is comical how you defend Hak and think he was a good thing for our team. Like what games were you watching? What line combos did you agree with and also didn't make you question his hockey knowledge? What lineup decisions were you looking at that you thought was advantageous for our team in the present but also looking towards the future. Hakstol was not a successful coach in the NHL with the flyers, plain and simple, in almost every regard/

how you think he was responsible for all the small successes the flyers had is absurd, asinine, ridiculous.
Tomahawk
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Driver's Seat: Mitch Marner Bandwagon
Joined: 02.04.2009

Nov 8 @ 11:19 AM ET
I wouldn't classify him as a bust. Won't know if he can play full time in the NHL if he can't stay healthy. He should not call it quits. He can still work his way back and build a career for himself in hockey.
- MJL


Have there been any examples of guys who missed three full seasons of their early 20's and were able to recover from that? I can't think of anybody off the top of my head.
sILKAsSINASALO
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 07.20.2018

Nov 8 @ 11:19 AM ET
nice of you to tell him he should quit. If the kid has it in him to work his way back, and i would bet he does, I hope very much he does and has a career.
- nastyflyergirl

This!! Anyoke cheering against sam Morin should be banned. His whole future is now in jeopardy and question.

Have a hart
GrittySauce
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Philipdelphia, PA
Joined: 08.19.2019

Nov 8 @ 11:21 AM ET
Myers played like a first pairing defender last night.
- MJL

Myers was incredible last night; constantly shutting someone down, hawking the loose puck, and seemed to be a regular threat in the attacking zone.

Side note, did anyone else think last night was Ghost's best game of the season so far? He seemed far more confident, akin to his old self
sILKAsSINASALO
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 07.20.2018

Nov 8 @ 11:21 AM ET
Fans in Philly are fickle and frustrated cause they haven't won a Cup since 75 and a playoff series since 12.

In Toronto those numbers are 67 and 04, plus they have three guys making $11m. That's a recipe for rancor.

- Feanor

I love a nice bowl of homemade rancor! Mmmm
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