He should be, but hasn't shown it yet. He needs to stay healthy. No coach would take 65-75 points and around 65 games over 90-95 and 82 games.
- aminnes

goals, centreman

goals, centreman
- TheMussel

So a 40 goal 65 point player is worth 11.65 million?

So a 40 goal 65 point player is worth 11.65 million?
- aminnes

did I say that?

sounds like you're trying to twist my words around

did I say that?
- TheMussel

No. I said he hasn't earned it yet, and your response was centre and goals, suggesting he has. So I'm asking if 40 goals and 65 points was enough to earn that deal? I would say no. I would say he is overpaid, like Nylander, and soon to be Marner.

I was under the impression that people said that Matthews is more valuable to the Maple Leafs than Marner, and that Marner shouldn't earn an AAV higher than Matthews.
- TheMussel

that's probably me.

matthews is 5th in total goals and 2nd in goals/game over the last 3 years, in the nhl.

In. The. NHL.

He needs to stay healthy and become more well rounded.

But he has been a consistent top goal scorer in the league. if you want to be paid like one of the top ~5 players in the nhl, you have to have consistently perform at that level (based on a stat that gets you paid).

No. I said he hasn't earned it yet, and your response was centre and goals, suggesting he has. So I'm asking if 40 goals and 65 points was enough to earn that deal? I would say no. I would say he is overpaid, like Nylander, and soon to be Marner.
- aminnes

I said Matthews is more valuable than Marner to the team, no mention of money. Regardless of whether or not Matthews has 'earned' his contract (dunno why you keep harping on about that), Marner is not more valuable to the team and therefore should not earn as much money.

He should be, but hasn't shown it yet. He needs to stay healthy. No coach would take 65-75 points and around 65 games over 90-95 and 82 games.
- aminnes

I'd be surprised if any current GM/Coach would select MM over AM in some kind of hypothetical re-draft of all all players.

You're building a team for the next 5-10 years you take ...

1. McDavid,
2. ??

...Matthews is higher on everyones list. He holds more value going forward and that's why he got more $$.

Dubas had the information leaked and it's working exactly as he had planned, watching everybody go crazy about an offer that was made in June, shifting the focus away from himself and the Leafs. These two sides are playing chess but the public is only seeing a small portion of the moves.

Dubas had the information leaked and it's working exactly as he had planned, watching everybody go crazy about an offer that was made in June, shifting the focus away from himself and the Leafs. These two sides are playing chess but the public is only seeing a small portion of the moves.
- JohnFergusonJr

leafs management = chess
marner's camp = checkers

So a 40 goal 65 point player is worth 11.65 million?
- aminnes

If his name is Matthews and he's one of the most prolific 5v5 goal scores of all time at this stage of his career and he's 21 yrs old then it's not far off.

Malkin and Stamkos were good comps for Matthews.

Malkin's post-ELC deal would be worth 5 x 12 today.
Stamkos' post ELC deal would be worth 5 x 9.5 today.

I think the whole league knows that TB players take a little less due to the lack of state taxes so factor that in and the range between Stamkos and Malkin is 10-12.

Matthews got a good number for sure but the precedent was there.

I said Matthews is more valuable than Marner to the team, no mention of money. Regardless of whether or not Matthews has 'earned' his contract (dunno why you keep harping on about that), Marner is not more valuable to the team and therefore should not earn as much money.
- TheMussel

So right now, today Matthews is more valuable? Her hasn't played 82 in over 2 years, hasn't broken 75 points, hasn't scored more than 37 in last 2 years.

Marner leading scorer on team for 3 years, 11th in NHL last year, kills penalties, plays in all situations.

I see both as equally valuable. I see JT, Marner and Matthews as equally valuable. The problem is in Gary's dumb hard cap guaranteed contract world it will be almost impossible to ice a Cup Champion without other major changes, of which haven't taken place. It's created a top heavy club hat is susceptible defensively.

I guess we just disagree.

If his name is Matthews and he's one of the most prolific 5v5 goal scores of all time at this stage of his career and he's 21 yrs old then it's not far off.

Malkin and Stamkos were good comps for Matthews.

Malkin's post-ELC deal would be worth 5 x 12 today.
Stamkos' post ELC deal would be worth 5 x 9.5 today.

I think the whole league knows that TB players take a little less due to the lack of state taxes so factor that in and the range between Stamkos and Malkin is 10-12.

Matthews got a good number for sure but the precedent was there.
- The Law

No they aren't.

except... comparing seasons at same age , Marner has strongly outperformed Kucherov.
- MaximusAurelius

So then Marner should accept a bridge deal at a reasonable price, just like Kucherov did.

kucherov's was what? 3 years $4.5M? Then 3 years $7M should be more than acceptable.

I'd be surprised if any current GM/Coach would select MM over AM in some kind of hypothetical re-draft of all all players.

You're building a team for the next 5-10 years you take ...

1. McDavid,
2. ??

...Matthews is higher on everyones list. He holds more value going forward and that's why he got more $$.
- The Law

Your assuming the Leafs are building around Matthews. They also have JT. They also had Kadri at the time. This isn't an expansion team. Also, why would the Leafs pay Matthews, an RFA, based on what a hypothetical team that needed a number one centre would pay him?

No they aren't.
- JohnFergusonJr

go on ...and remember the comparison we're talking about is measuring them after 3 years in the league. And keep in mind that Malkin started in the NHL 2 years after his draft year.

And who would you list as your best Matthews comps?

So then Marner should accept a bridge deal at a reasonable price, just like Kucherov did.

kucherov's was what? 3 years $4.5M? Then 3 years $7M should be more than acceptable.
- GreatGigInTheSky

Kucherov wasn't even in the NHL at 20, much less scoring 90+ points.

And his first 3 NHL seasons (at an older age) looked more like Nylander numbers.

That's why he got the bridge deal that he got.

go on ...and remember the comparison we're talking about is measuring them after 3 years in the league. And keep in mind that Malkin started in the NHL 2 years after his draft year.

And who would you list as your best Matthews comps?
- The Law

Marner

go on ...and remember the comparison we're talking about is measuring them after 3 years in the league. And keep in mind that Malkin started in the NHL 2 years after his draft year.

And who would you list as your best Matthews comps?
- The Law

Lolaine

go on ...and remember the comparison we're talking about is measuring them after 3 years in the league. And keep in mind that Malkin started in the NHL 2 years after his draft year.

And who would you list as your best Matthews comps?
- The Law

Both had won awards, put up more assists, more points and/or gone deep in the playoffs.

What other player scored 40 and got hurt twice? The whole "goals 5 on 5" criteria was never a criteria until Leafs fans began trying to justify the price tag.

Your assuming the Leafs are building around Matthews. They also have JT. They also had Kadri at the time. This isn't an expansion team. Also, why would the Leafs pay Matthews, an RFA, based on what a hypothetical team that needed a number one centre would pay him?
- aminnes

What? I'm not assuming anything. I described a hypothetical ...how would your list go? And maybe you want to build around MM but I just feel like AM comes off the board before MM.

Kucherov wasn't even in the NHL at 20, much less scoring 90+ points.

And his first 3 NHL seasons (at an older age) looked more like Nylander numbers.

That's why he got the bridge deal that he got.
- JohnFergusonJr

I think if we are paying guys based on project and what they should do in the future - which is exactly what is happening - Then a 94 point winger at 22 should easily be considered a 110 point winger by age 25. That would put him in the top 5-7 players points wise in the league.

Kucherov wasn't even in the NHL at 20, much less scoring 90+ points.

And his first 3 NHL seasons (at an older age) looked more like Nylander numbers.

That's why he got the bridge deal that he got.
- JohnFergusonJr

You know who else' numbers looked like Nylanders? Marners. Until he got Snakevares to up his totals by 25.

Both had won awards, put up more assists, more points and/or gone deep in the playoffs.

What other player scored 40 and got hurt twice? The whole "goals 5 on 5" criteria was never a criteria until Leafs fans began trying to justify the price tag.
- JohnFergusonJr

ignore 5 on 5.

he is 5th in the nhl in total goals scored over the last 3 years. despite missing time.

You know who else' numbers looked like Nylanders? Marners. Until he got Snakevares to up his totals by 25.
- GreatGigInTheSky

You know who played with Matthews and who played with Bozak?

Yeah, you know.

You also know who scored a career high in goals because of sweet passes and plays that created a lot more open net tap ins too.

You know who else' numbers looked like Nylanders? Marners. Until he got Snakevares to up his totals by 25.
- GreatGigInTheSky

You mean when Marner was on the third line and 4th line and Nylander was playing with AM. And then last year Nylander played not the 3rd and 4th and poop the bed. Yes.

Nylander with AM - 60 points 20 goals. Marner with JT - 94 points 26 goals.