Wanna blog? Start your own hockey blog with My HockeyBuzz. Register for free today!
 
Forums :: Blog World :: James Tanner: In the NHL Where They Give Away P.K Subban, Coyotes Should Get Kopitar
Author Message
James Tanner
Joined: 12.21.2013

Aug 22 @ 10:05 AM ET
James Tanner: In the NHL Where They Give Away P.K Subban, Coyotes Should Get Kopitar
Garnie
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: ON
Joined: 11.30.2009

Aug 22 @ 10:11 AM ET
This should be entertaining.

*grabs popcorn*
ClaudeFather
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: west haven, CT
Joined: 08.14.2015

Aug 22 @ 10:15 AM ET
The Coyotes need to draft better in the first round.
Scabeh
Montreal Canadiens
Location: The Slovakian Jagr, QC
Joined: 02.25.2007

Aug 22 @ 10:20 AM ET
Of course the Leafs offer was better.

They have better players.

They're the best team ever.

Forever.

In everything.
James Tanner
Joined: 12.21.2013

Aug 22 @ 10:20 AM ET
The Coyotes need to draft better in the first round.
- ClaudeFather


Their GM has been here for four drafts, and the first one worked out beautifully, while they traded the second one and it's too early to tell on the last two.

The only information we have about their drafting ability is Keller and he was good enough to justify the risks on Hayton and Soderstrom.
ClaudeFather
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: west haven, CT
Joined: 08.14.2015

Aug 22 @ 10:25 AM ET
Their GM has been here for four drafts, and the first one worked out beautifully, while they traded the second one and it's too early to tell on the last two.

The only information we have about their drafting ability is Keller and he was good enough to justify the risks on Hayton and Soderstrom.

- James_Tanner

In what way imaginable is Clayton Keller able to justify making risky draft picks ? The Coyotes roster is awful, they are going to stink and there is no end in sight.
James Tanner
Joined: 12.21.2013

Aug 22 @ 10:27 AM ET
In what way imaginable is Clayton Keller able to justify making risky draft picks ? The Coyotes roster is awful, they are going to stink and there is no end in sight.
- ClaudeFather



I don't know dude, you clearly wouldn't care either way because you've got your mind made up and you're set on being an ass.........but I think 65 points from a rookie is pretty fn good.

Also, if you spent like five minutes looking at the odds of each position in the draft becoming an NHL Player, you'd realize that teams should be swinging for the fence and taking risks, since over 80% of 5th overall and lower picks don't even make it anyways.
ClaudeFather
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: west haven, CT
Joined: 08.14.2015

Aug 22 @ 10:28 AM ET
I don't know dude, you clearly wouldn't care either way because you've got your mind made up and you're set on being an ass.........but I think 65 points from a rookie is pretty fn good.

Also, if you spent like five minutes looking at the odds of each position in the draft becoming an NHL Player, you'd realize that teams should be swinging for the fence and taking risks, since over 80% of 5th overall and lower picks don't even make it anyways.

- James_Tanner

Great explanation, thanks for coming out.
Flybynight88
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: NJ
Joined: 01.29.2010

Aug 22 @ 10:51 AM ET
To come out and say that basically all hockey players that are not elite are useless is ludicrous. Maybe the Coyotes should ban useless hockey bloggers and get themselves an elite one and maybe they will start winning.
Levit8
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Joined: 07.24.2015

Aug 22 @ 10:54 AM ET
There's the Jimmy we all know and...well...you know.

Winter is coming fast. You should probably pull you head out of you colon and enjoy the sun while you still can.
daryl stanley
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 02.12.2019

Aug 22 @ 10:58 AM ET
wasnt there a time you praised goligoski and demers deals? First pair dman you said, about demers i recall definitely.
Maskdman3
New York Rangers
Location: Gotham City, NY
Joined: 02.16.2007

Aug 22 @ 11:02 AM ET
This idea is awesome. Best way to improve a franchise is to take on enormous cap hits and pay declining veterans for their past performances with other teams.

Come trade deadline day we will see a blog about how depth wins Cups
James Tanner
Joined: 12.21.2013

Aug 22 @ 11:22 AM ET
To come out and say that basically all hockey players that are not elite are useless is ludicrous. Maybe the Coyotes should ban useless hockey bloggers and get themselves an elite one and maybe they will start winning.
- Flybynight88



It might sound crazy, but if you think about it really isn't.

11% of the NHL impacts the game with a range between the best elite player and the worst elite player that is insanely bigger than the rest of the NHL.

First thing you have to understand is that yes, this might be completely insane in a league without a salary cap.

But not only is the NHL a league with a salary cap, it's a league where (unlike soccer) team depth isn't a factor in winning. You can google strong link game and get some interesting reading material.

The bottom line is that winning in the NHL is driven by elite players, who have outsized impacts on the game.

People have been writing for years about how the difference between second line players and AHL players is basically down to minutes and opportunity.

So if you have Justin Ablekator who makes $4.25 million, and you compare him to a player who is worse, but cheaper, it makes sense to take the cheaper player every time.

If you do that with three players, you will slightly down grade your roster, but have enough money left over to buy an elite player.

If the Coyotes lineup was Kopitar- Hayton - Garland
instead of Grabner - Soderberg - Richardson don't think think they improved their team?

One thing you're not consider is how marginal differences at the professional level are.

The worst player in the NHL, if you met him, would be better at playing hockey than anyone you've ever met is at doing their best skill. The NHL is the best of the best.

But the difference between McDavid and Polak is smaller than the difference between Polak and a random mens league player.

So while marginal gains are extremely important, adding elite players and subbing your mid-range guys out with ELCs and AHL tweeners making the league minimum is the best way to improve your team.

This is the next big change that analytics will have on the NHL, and in like two or three years you'll be like "wow Tanner was actually right"

James Tanner
Joined: 12.21.2013

Aug 22 @ 11:23 AM ET
wasnt there a time you praised goligoski and demers deals? First pair dman you said, about demers i recall definitely.
- daryl stanley



Yes there definitely was a time when I praised those players. But I read constantly and I change my mind when I get new information, which I used to think was the bare minimum qualification for being an adult.
Bigdog1991
St Louis Blues
Location: St. Louis, MO
Joined: 07.08.2015

Aug 22 @ 11:25 AM ET
If the leafs system of over paying player is so good how come they can’t get past first round? How come the top four teams in finals didn’t have a player over 8 million neverless 3 over 10? Your obsession with the leafs just makes you look like an idiot. I really think u would be better off never mentioning the leafs and people would like you more!!!

@Tanner
James Tanner
Joined: 12.21.2013

Aug 22 @ 11:25 AM ET
This idea is awesome. Best way to improve a franchise is to take on enormous cap hits and pay declining veterans for their past performances with other teams.

Come trade deadline day we will see a blog about how depth wins Cups

- Maskdman3



Anze Kopitar is one of the best players in the NHL for the past decade. I have zero concerns about his ability to remain an elite player for a couple of years. But I also think the Coyotes, by acquiring Kessel, are trying to somewhat go for it.

If you want to go for it, go for it. If you're going to add Kessel, you can add Kopitar.
James Tanner
Joined: 12.21.2013

Aug 22 @ 11:30 AM ET
If the leafs system of over paying player is so good how come they can’t get past first round? How come the top four teams in finals didn’t have a player over 8 million neverless 3 over 10? Your obsession with the leafs just makes you look like an idiot. I really think u would be better off never mentioning the leafs and people would like you more!!!

@Tanner

- Bigdog1991




If my concern was being liked, it's an easy enough thing to tell people what they want to hear. Mean commenting has been pushing successful writers to the centre for years now, and you're choice of taylored entertainment has never been greater.

Personally, I am here to entertain.

I'll also acknowledge that the Leafs haven't won anything, but their studs and duds philosophy also hasn't been implemented yet, as their young core is just coming off their ELCs.

The fact is, what I'm writing about hasn't even been attempted yet, so it's not even intellectually honest to try and disprove it with results from the past.


Obviously I can't say for sure it works either, but the math tells us it will.

Bigdog1991
St Louis Blues
Location: St. Louis, MO
Joined: 07.08.2015

Aug 22 @ 11:33 AM ET
It might sound crazy, but if you think about it really isn't.

11% of the NHL impacts the game with a range between the best elite player and the worst elite player that is insanely bigger than the rest of the NHL.

First thing you have to understand is that yes, this might be completely insane in a league without a salary cap.

But not only is the NHL a league with a salary cap, it's a league where (unlike soccer) team depth isn't a factor in winning. You can google strong link game and get some interesting reading material.

The bottom line is that winning in the NHL is driven by elite players, who have outsized impacts on the game.

People have been writing for years about how the difference between second line players and AHL players is basically down to minutes and opportunity.

So if you have Justin Ablekator who makes $4.25 million, and you compare him to a player who is worse, but cheaper, it makes sense to take the cheaper player every time.

If you do that with three players, you will slightly down grade your roster, but have enough money left over to buy an elite player.

If the Coyotes lineup was Kopitar- Hayton - Garland
instead of Grabner - Soderberg - Richardson don't think think they improved their team?

One thing you're not consider is how marginal differences at the professional level are.

The worst player in the NHL, if you met him, would be better at playing hockey than anyone you've ever met is at doing their best skill. The NHL is the best of the best.

But the difference between McDavid and Polak is smaller than the difference between Polak and a random mens league player.

So while marginal gains are extremely important, adding elite players and subbing your mid-range guys out with ELCs and AHL tweeners making the league minimum is the best way to improve your team.

This is the next big change that analytics will have on the NHL, and in like two or three years you'll be like "wow Tanner was actually right"

- James_Tanner


The problem with your theory is u expect players in rookie deals to play elite player minutes. Which when u draft high the players can do it. But when u become the leafs and are force to draft low or trade first. It makes it almost impossible to find impact players. Just because you have three players making 10 million+ doesn’t mean u will win cup. It means that other players on team a worse off like defense or goaltending. Next year when muzzin and Barrie contract is up and they have no money to pay them, then expect sandin and lilygren to play top minutes will they be better off? While having elite players makes you good team it doesn’t necessarily make u a elite team. To be elite u need a well rounded team and bottom pairing lines that can play against top lines. So elite players. Can get easier matchups.
James Tanner
Joined: 12.21.2013

Aug 22 @ 11:39 AM ET
The problem with your theory is u expect players in rookie deals to play elite player minutes. Which when u draft high the players can do it. But when u become the leafs and are force to draft low or trade first. It makes it almost impossible to find impact players. Just because you have three players making 10 million+ doesn’t mean u will win cup. It means that other players on team a worse off like defense or goaltending. Next year when muzzin and Barrie contract is up and they have no money to pay them, then expect sandin and lilygren to play top minutes will they be better off? While having elite players makes you good team it doesn’t necessarily make u a elite team. To be elite u need a well rounded team and bottom pairing lines that can play against top lines. So elite players. Can get easier matchups.
- Bigdog1991




Yes what you're saying is in line with traditional thinking. Depth is something teams have preached forever, but it's in fact the wrong way to go about it.

Of course there is no guarantee of winning, but the team with the most elite players has the best chace to do so.

As for rookies, no one said anything about superstars. Those are a bonus. But you can ditch Richardson and play Hayton, save half a million bucks and not notice a difference.
Bigdog1991
St Louis Blues
Location: St. Louis, MO
Joined: 07.08.2015

Aug 22 @ 11:43 AM ET
If my concern was being liked, it's an easy enough thing to tell people what they want to hear. Mean commenting has been pushing successful writers to the centre for years now, and you're choice of taylored entertainment has never been greater.

Personally, I am here to entertain.

I'll also acknowledge that the Leafs haven't won anything, but their studs and duds philosophy also hasn't been implemented yet, as their young core is just coming off their ELCs.

The fact is, what I'm writing about hasn't even been attempted yet, so it's not even intellectually honest to try and disprove it with results from the past.


Obviously I can't say for sure it works either, but the math tells us it will.

- James_Tanner


So wat your saying is once you have to pay marner and Mathews big money vs on ELC. It will make them better? Shouldn’t your theory work better now when they are being paid nothing and can fill roster with better players. Just because they are getting paid doesn’t mean they will be better. While I am not saying they reached their ceiling but I don’t think you can expect a huge point jump from marner or Mathews.

Also, look at when blackhawks has to pay Kane and toews they never one a single round in playoffs. I believe Ovechkin is the Highest paid player to win the cup and his contract was paid how many years ago. To think u need to pay players crazy money has never worked in nhl. And depth teams or teams with players below elite have done much better then the teams you are talking about. Teams with out elite players blues, Vegas, boston, Nashville, islanders, flames, ducks and Minnesota All have been playoffs teams for long time without having a superstar.

@Tanner
Takemedrunkimhome
Montreal Canadiens
Joined: 03.08.2018

Aug 22 @ 11:59 AM ET
"Yes there definitely was a time when I praised those players. But I read constantly and I change my mind when I get new information, which I used to think was the bare minimum qualification for being an adult."
- James Tanner

Isn't this another way of saying "my knowledge base that I insisted was accurate while insulting anybody with an opinion that was outside my dogma, was so far off I've done a complete 180° degree turn and now I'm arguing the opposite because I read opinons of other people who are smarter than me (appeal to authorities)"

I mean changing your opinion or thought process is great but you then need to acknowledge how wrong you were, how off your thoughts and opinions on hockey were and how rude and insulting you were to others whose opinions you now share, despite previously calling it ignorance or insisting their opinion is due to a lack of reading? Hell couldn't you just admit that you rely solely on stats you clearly don't understand? Wanting credibility for changing your thought process has a cost and it's owning up to your previous BS
Pelle31Forever
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: PA
Joined: 05.20.2014

Aug 22 @ 12:05 PM ET
"Depth is something teams have preached forever, but it's in fact the wrong way to go about it. "

I'm sorry, what?

Takemedrunkimhome
Montreal Canadiens
Joined: 03.08.2018

Aug 22 @ 12:14 PM ET
"Depth is something teams have preached forever, but it's in fact the wrong way to go about it. "

I'm sorry, what?

- Pelle31Forever

Bruins had 21 players score at least 1 goal in the playoffs this year. But in the professional sports world's greatest war of attrition known as the NHL playoffs, who needs depth?
RogerRoeper
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 03.27.2007

Aug 22 @ 12:16 PM ET
If the leafs system of over paying player is so good how come they can’t get past first round? How come the top four teams in finals didn’t have a player over 8 million neverless 3 over 10? Your obsession with the leafs just makes you look like an idiot. I really think u would be better off never mentioning the leafs and people would like you more!!!

@Tanner

- Bigdog1991


Who cares? You really think that will happen again? All 4 WC teams advanced. That played a big part in it.

It means NOTHING.
Pasky
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 08.05.2019

Aug 22 @ 12:19 PM ET
"Teams focus on depth, but they shouldn't.

The focus should be on getting as many star players as you can. The Leafs are the first team in the NHL to follow through on this knowledge with a "studs and duds" salary cap structure.

Once they sign Marner, they'll have 3 players over ten million. A lot of people think this won't work, but they are wrong. They fail to understand that the real problem NHL teams suffer from is paying out money to mid-range players. "

Stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid

How many star players play on SJ compared to St-Louis last season? How about Tampa vs Columbus? Why is it that a team like Pittsburgh that have constantly and 3-4 star players over the past 10-15 years only ever seem to win when their goalies go on a hot streak?

Or a team like Edmonton that has had multiple 1st overall picks and star players only made the playoffs 1 in the past decade, let alone actually win anything?

If you really think that star players and nobodies wins you championships then you should be blogging for the NBA. As important as star players are to a team it's impossible to win in the NHL without being able to roll 3 lines constantly
Page: 1, 2, 3, 4  Next