I am freaking crying laughing so hard in my office right now reading this
- Stripes77

I think my favorite one is this:

Bruggman: One of the quarterbacks at Texas Tech took notes on Leach’s stories, and he would quote Leach but he wouldn’t say the F word and he wouldn’t write the F word. He left his notebook behind one day and somehow Leach got a hold of it and was looking at it, so the next day in the meeting he said, “I want you to get up on the board and write the word ‘(frank).’”

Jeff Skinner is 21st in the league in Goals Above Replacement. 7th for wingers. This is a combination stat that grades your overall performance in how much you help your team while you're on the ice, in any situation.

During even strength, he is +11.8. This means while he's on the ice for even strength, he is contributing almost 12 goals (and shot generation) more than a replacement player. This is higher than Claude Giroux, Nikita Kucherov, Conner McDavid, Braydon Point and Patrice Bergeron. All elite players.

He is drawing 4.4 penalties above replacement, not much lower than players like McDavid, MacKinnon, Gaudreau and Barkov. Again, elite players.

His PP and PK are relatively pedestrian, as the eye test and simple stats show. However, since typically 80+ % of the game is played at full strength, you should be paying the players that first exceed at even strength (Skinner is an elite even strength player, by definition of collective opinion of the other players in elite category combined with being tops, statistically in the league) instead of powerplay or penalty kill specialists, which are typically below replacement level players.
- TheSabresTaco

But he isn’t an elite set up man dude. Which means he’s exactly what Sheary is.

If Botts plucks a top 10 goaltender, an established 2C, and we have 3 other d-men have strong seasons the wingers will be irrelevant. Warren Foegle replaced Skinner in Carolina and they seemed to do just fine. Carolina was a playoff team becuase they had one of the best d-corps in the league, strong goaltending (magnified by system and defense corps), and depth down the middle.

The Sabres will make the playoffs this year if Hutton/Ullmark give us strong goaltending, Dahlin/Mitts fulfill their potential in their respective roles, and if the rest of our d-corps rounds out admirably. Jeff will play a role in that, just like he did this year, but paying $9M to most likely the 6th most important player on our roster in the grand scheme of things is a tall task.
- Swedish_Jesus

It seems to me the main issue you have with Skinner is $1M, juging by previous posts. Yet, I think the real overpayment is about $500k.

Skinner and his agent had Botts over the barrel, and they all knew it. Did they pay too much in a vacuum, ABSOLUTELY. Other elements factored into the decision to overpay however. With Skinner's 40 G, they were still 40-50 short of being a playoff bubble team. Takeaway the 40 and they are upside down at -80. Couple that with a fan base that would have turned against them upon losing Skinner...they had no choice but to overpay, and they knew it.
You know that though.

If replacing scoring wingers is relatively easy, I fail to see how the Sabres are devoid of them on the right side then.

I am freaking crying laughing so hard in my office right now reading this
- Stripes77

GMs know all the coaches when they sign or draft a player. They investigate a lot of guys they like. So, amazingly enough, Doug (frank)ing Whaley brought this kid in, that literally had a non existent play book. What a microcosm of why the Bills have failed for so long.

But he isn’t an elite set up man dude. Which means he’s exactly what Sheary is.
- sbroads24

That makes sense. My bad.

Hoffman traded Karlsson in NHL16
- SDSabre

You don't want to know what Monika Caryk did to the Karlssons on the Sims

GMs know all the coaches when they sign or draft a player. They investigate a lot of guys they like. So, amazingly enough, Doug (frank)ing Whaley brought this kid in, that literally had a non existent play book. What a microcosm of why the Bills have failed for so long.
- TheSabresTaco

I'm assuming you are talking about Jeff Tuel?

You can also add this to the list:

https://q13fox.com/2013/0...ver-really-won-any-games/

Alright.

Which one of you is this?

https://worldnewsdailyrep...fee-everyday-for-4-years/

Some peeps on here need to put the glue down and stop sniffing.
Facts:
1.If we did not sign Skinner, walked away over a million or length of contract he would have been signed by another club for similar terms.
2. 40 goal scorers are elite in today’s NHL
3. He possesses elite skating, stick handling and defensive ability
4. Name one other elite winger willing to sign in Buffalo?
- lulags

This is where your argument loses all credibility. Not any person in the NHL or anyone with any hockey knowledge would claim that he has elite defensive ability. Unless you meant he has the ability, but chooses not to use it. He had less than 3 minutes of PK time. He started over 70% of the time in the Ozone. His last season on a defensively stacked Carolina team he was a -27. There is a reason he is not seen as a top 20 winger in the league, and that is because he is a one dimensional player.

This is where your argument loses all credibility. Not any person in the NHL or anyone with any hockey knowledge would claim that he has elite defensive ability. Unless you meant he has the ability, but chooses not to use it. He had less than 3 minutes of PK time. He started over 70% of the time in the Ozone. His last season on a defensively stacked Carolina team he was a -27. There is a reason he is not seen as a top 20 winger in the league, and that is because he is a one dimensional player.
- adambuffalo[/quote]

Been beaten to death, but that's if you designate the NHL as having only two dimensions (Offense, where he's elite, and Defense where he's probably average). He draws a ton of penalties, is an elite skater, doesn't take penalties, and honestly probably something that isn't a huge deal but has chemistry with our superstar.

Jeff Skinner is an elite hockey player for 80+% of the time his team is playing, and approximately 90% of the time he is on the ice.
- TheSabresTaco

Can he really be, not playing center or centre?

An easily replaceable winger?

Can he really be, not playing center or centre?

An easily replaceable winger?
- Boss34

No, he can't. My argument is garbage now.

Only centers are elite. And non-Sabres wingers.

I'm assuming you are talking about Jeff Tuel?

You can also add this to the list:

https://q13fox.com/2013/0...ver-really-won-any-games/
- buffalofan19

I was at the game against KC when Tuel threw the pick in the end zone

I was sitting with the players families. Manny Lawson used to hang out at my wife's family bar. Her brother became friends with him.

So I am sitting there with my wife and her brother and as soon as he threw the pick 5 other families of players said something like how has this clown made it in the leauge

I was at the game against KC when Tuel threw the pick in the end zone

I was sitting with the players families. Manny Lawson used to hang out at my wife's family bar. Her brother became friends with him.

So I am sitting there with my wife and her brother and as soon as he threw the pick 5 other families of players said something like how has this clown made it in the leauge
- Stripes77

What do you mean, "clown"?

This is where your argument loses all credibility. Not any person in the NHL or anyone with any hockey knowledge would claim that he has elite defensive ability. Unless you meant he has the ability, but chooses not to use it. He had less than 3 minutes of PK time. He started over 70% of the time in the Ozone. His last season on a defensively stacked Carolina team he was a -27. There is a reason he is not seen as a top 20 winger in the league, and that is because he is a one dimensional player.
- adambuffalo

He’s not great defensively

But he’s also top 5 among forwards in takeaways over the past 3 seasons.

His defensive play leaves a lot to be desired but his forechecking is elite.

He is the furthest thing from one dimensional there is.

I was at the game against KC when Tuel threw the pick in the end zone

I was sitting with the players families. Manny Lawson used to hang out at my wife's family bar. Her brother became friends with him.

So I am sitting there with my wife and her brother and as soon as he threw the pick 5 other families of players said something like how has this clown made it in the leauge
- Stripes77

Clearly he was incapable of remembering his college coach's words:

“Don’t throw the ball to the other team. That’s the last thing you want to do is throw the ball to the other team.”

No, he can't. My argument is garbage now.

Only centers are elite. And non-Sabres wingers.
- TheSabresTaco

Sabres Centers are also not elite. Cozens was an elite prospect. Not anymore. John-Jack ECHL used to be a can't miss consolation prize. Now the only playoffs he'll ever play in are the Draft lotto playoffs. Reinhart was so not elite, we moved him to winger so we wouldn't be embarrassed. Silly us.

He’s not great defensively

But he’s also top 5 among forwards in takeaways over the past 3 seasons.

His defensive play leaves a lot to be desired but his forechecking is elite.

He is the furthest thing from one dimensional there is.
- sbroads24

In the most simplistic of terms, yeah, he's one dimensional. He's an offensive guy. Which is what I think he's implying. But I agree that it's inappropriate to designate him as such, because he's so much more than, well, a Phil Kessel type.

This is where your argument loses all credibility. Not any person in the NHL or anyone with any hockey knowledge would claim that he has elite defensive ability. Unless you meant he has the ability, but chooses not to use it. He had less than 3 minutes of PK time. He started over 70% of the time in the Ozone. His last season on a defensively stacked Carolina team he was a -27. There is a reason he is not seen as a top 20 winger in the league, and that is because he is a one dimensional player.
- adambuffalo

I don't know if we're counting +/- today or not, but I think he was the only even player on the team besides gm Casey Nelson

On the zone start thing, there's one thing that irks me. Yeah, he doesn't start a lot in the defensive zone, but that's partially because you want him for the offensive zone

It's like when people bring up the 150% d zone starts for 22 and 28. Of course part of it was that mitts wasn't good defensively and they are better, but part of it is that it's a waste of an opportunity and shift to start them in the offensive zone. They won't score.

Also, when are we going to get neutral zone starts incorporated into the stats? I understand everything south of center ice is a d zone draw, but not really

Sabres Centers are also not elite. Cozens was an elite prospect. Not anymore. John-Jack ECHL used to be a can't miss consolation prize. Now the only playoffs he'll ever play in are the Draft lotto playoffs. Reinhart was so not elite, we moved him to winger so we wouldn't be embarrassed. Silly us.
- SDSabre

I won't engage in this dance without my partner not being here.

Tyler Dubinsky will be elite in the below average category.

I don't know if we're counting +/- today or not, but I think he was the only even player on the team besides gm Casey Nelson

On the zone start thing, there's one thing that irks me. Yeah, he doesn't start a lot in the defensive zone, but that's partially because you want him for the offensive zone

It's like when people bring up the 150% d zone starts for 22 and 28. Of course part of it was that mitts wasn't good defensively and they are better, but part of it is that it's a waste of an opportunity and shift to start them in the offensive zone. They won't score.

Also, when are we going to get neutral zone starts incorporated into the stats? I understand everything south of center ice is a d zone draw, but not really
- jcragcrumple

I'm still waiting for penalty kill efficiency stats. Trying to justify and compare value for bottom 6/PK players.

So elite goal scorers are replaceable..if they are wingers??? He's an elite hockey player. One of the best skaters in the league, draws a sh!t tone of penalties, has been very healthy the past 4 seasons and scores goals year over year. I couldn't care less what NHL Network has to say. Hell, they put Liane in the top 20..
- Bufsaints8

Yea I remember the all the media attention he got last summer as an impending UFA. I remember when half the league lined up to acquire him and we out bid 80% of the league since we gave up an elite prospect in Cliff Pu.

Carolina missed him dearly this past season right ?

In the most simplistic of terms, yeah, he's one dimensional. He's an offensive guy. Which is what I think he's implying. But I agree that it's inappropriate to designate him as such, because he's so much more than, well, a Phil Kessel type.
- TheSabresTaco

He's an offensive player that doesn't suck defensively

He is paid to score goals and not be a liability in the D zone.

His all around game isn't awful, he does a lot to change the out comes of games by doing things like takeaways in the offensive zone and drawing penalties.

This is where your argument loses all credibility. Not any person in the NHL or anyone with any hockey knowledge would claim that he has elite defensive ability. Unless you meant he has the ability, but chooses not to use it. He had less than 3 minutes of PK time. He started over 70% of the time in the Ozone. His last season on a defensively stacked Carolina team he was a -27. There is a reason he is not seen as a top 20 winger in the league, and that is because he is a one dimensional player.
- adambuffalo

Bingo.

Yea I remember the all the media attention he got last summer as an impending UFA. I remember when half the league lined up to acquire him and we out bid 80% of the league since we gave up an elite prospect in Cliff Pu.

Carolina missed him dearly this past season right ?
- Swedish_Jesus

RoR was acquired for Tage Thompson, 2 cap dumps and a 1st. Is his skill mitigated by what he cost to acquire?