HockeyBuzz Hotstove: Top-5 defensemen in the Western Conference?

Surprised that Tanner didn't include Oliver Ekman-Larsson in his top 10. At one point, I think OEL would've been in your top 3? What has happened to OEL over the past few seasons?

“I hate when people say ‘and it’s not even close’”.

...says the guy that uses that phrase in just about every single one of his poopty blogs.

I havent watched him much but has Doughty fallen off this much he doesnt even get a mention?

Yes, he has.
Father time took a baton to the back of both of his knees

Surprised that Tanner didn't include Oliver Ekman-Larsson in his top 10. At one point, I think OEL would've been in your top 3? What has happened to OEL over the past few seasons?
- DanDaoust24

He just hasn't been in a position to succeed. A few years ago, he had one of the best seasons in terms of WAR or defensive WAR or whatever it was, but his team has been awful, he hasn't been as good as he was when he was 23 or 24.

I'm still a fan, but whether it's the team or the lack of elite players he gets on the ice with, he can be better

I havent watched him much but has Doughty fallen off this much he doesnt even get a mention?
- systemtool

Let's just say that if you didn't look at the names and you just compared the numbers for the last three years of Jake Gardiner and Drew Doughty, you'd denounce the ability to measure performance in hockey and call me an idiot.

Let's just say that if you didn't look at the names and you just compared the numbers for the last three years of Jake Gardiner and Drew Doughty, you'd denounce the ability to measure performance in hockey and call me an idiot.
- James_Tanner

I'm surprised Gardiner hasnt signed. With his age and bad back I'm glad the Leafs are moving on. Maybe that's the concern GMs have? Find it hard to believe though that some teams havent offered him a serious contract.

I'm surprised Gardiner hasnt signed. With his age and bad back I'm glad the Leafs are moving on. Maybe that's the concern GMs have? Find it hard to believe though that some teams havent offered him a serious contract.
- systemtool

I think there are 2 possibilities.

- He has a deal in place and is waiting for that team to sign their RFA or make cap room.

- his injury is screwing up negotiations and he's not interested in a discount.

There is no way that at least the half of the NHL that is committed to analytics wouldn't be exited to add him.

James does your back get sore with all the flip-flopping you do?
A short time ago OEL was a top 5 defender in your opinion(actually you stated it as "fact") Now, Not even honorable mention?

You also stated Roman Josi wasn't even in the top 25 defenders in the league. You would consider throwing him in somewhere around 25-30th? We argued in depth about this.

Also Gardiner could sign with a western team . Surprised you didn't throw him in the mix.

I think there are 2 possibilities.

- He has a deal in place and is waiting for that team to sign their RFA or make cap room.

- his injury is screwing up negotiations and he's not interested in a discount.

There is no way that at least the half of the NHL that is committed to analytics wouldn't be exited to add him.
- James_Tanner

And a third possibility seems to be alluding you.......He isn't worth what he is obviously asking!

Dig that Hampus got a little love...

I think free of the Carlyle effect .. which is like Kryptonite to any player ... and paired back with Josh.. another brilliant move by Carlyle breaking them up..

He's going to have a monster year.

Tick tock. Flip flop. OEL top 3 in the world. Now OEL not mentioned. One day Schmaltz could be a 90+ point player signed to an amazing contract. Next month this contract has risks. Betting on your own players like Chychrun is pure genius. Betting on Scissons is dumb. Flip flop. Flip flop.

No love for Alex Pietrangelo?

Both of these dumb dumbs forget Ryan Ellis.

He is easily in the top 5

I think there are 2 possibilities.

- He has a deal in place and is waiting for that team to sign their RFA or make cap room.

- his injury is screwing up negotiations and he's not interested in a discount.

There is no way that at least the half of the NHL that is committed to analytics wouldn't be exited to add him.
- James_Tanner

I think they are two possibilities for sure. Another is that he is simply one of the most overrated players in hockey and a poster boy for why analytics aren't all that you think they are.

HockeyBuzz Hotstove: Top-5 defensemen in the Western Conference?
- ToddCordellVAN

Doughy and Pietrangelo not on the list?

I think they are two possibilities for sure. Another is that he is simply one of the most overrated players in hockey and a poster boy for why analytics aren't all that you think they are.
- MJL

Which analytics? As per usual Cordell specifically chose a different type of analytic for each player which basically screams terrible practice.

Why not decide what metrics you value most for this type of analysis and then show all the numbers for each player? Why does EK get shot attempts and expected GF, Gio gets raw production only, Klingberg gets GAR only, Lindholm gets the eye test and Burns gets raw production?

This is some sad amateur level of inconsistency that shouldn’t even need to be pointed out.

Which analytics? As per usual Cordell specifically chose a different type of analytic for each player which basically screams terrible practice.

Why not decide what metrics you value most for this type of analysis and then show all the numbers for each player? Why does EK get shot attempts and expected GF, Gio gets raw production only, Klingberg gets GAR only, Lindholm gets the eye test and Burns gets raw production?

This is some sad amateur level of inconsistency that shouldn’t even need to be pointed out.
- RonPielep

Good points. Really though. NHL teams are so far beyond the analytics that are available to the public. Their data collection is so much better. To NHL teams, stats like Corsi are archaic.

I personally think Klingberg might be #1. Dude is fantastic and fun as hell to watch

Good points. Really though. NHL teams are so far beyond the analytics that are available to the public. They're data collection is so much better. To NHL teams, stats like Corsi are archaic.
- MJL

I would suspect that sentiment to be true but I have no insider information so it’s just speculation to me.

He just hasn't been in a position to succeed. A few years ago, he had one of the best seasons in terms of WAR or defensive WAR or whatever it was, but his team has been awful, he hasn't been as good as he was when he was 23 or 24.

I'm still a fan, but whether it's the team or the lack of elite players he gets on the ice with, he can be better
- James_Tanner

When are the analytic losers going to (frank) off with the WAR RAR VAR TAR bullpoop? When did an analytic GM ever win a cup? When did one ever go to the final? Actually..... when did one ever win a series LOL

You have those two little boys Chayka and Dubas probably never watched 100 hockey games in their lives but they are good at math formulas. Both get bent over in trades. Chayka gets some slack I guess because the coyotes are hot trash anyways. But Dubas walked into a dream scenario and he managed to turn it into a circus lol I think my grandmother would have done a better job.

Go Analytics! WAR!!!

I wouldn't necessarily have Petro in my top 5 but I've got him over Parayko

Josi

Hjalmarsson doesn't put up points...But he's elite defensively. - Tanner