Even then though, it isn't a SC contending defence. Reilly, Dermott, 2 Rookies, and Muzzin/Barrie doesn't get you to the finals.
- aminnes

It isn't because it hasn't been. It can be.

Rielly is 24 and getting better. Dermott is solid. Maybe Liljegren and/or Sandin come up this year, or impress next year.

Frankly, Pittsburgh won four years ago with a defense of Letang, Dumoulin, Maata, Lovejoy, Cole and Daley/Schultz. That's not an SC contending defense either. Except the next year they also won the Cup with a defense of Schultz, Cole, Hainsey, Maata, Dumoulin and Daley - which is even worse.

Washington won the next year with Carlson, Niskanen, Orlov, Orpik, Kempny and Djoos.

Rielly is the puck driving defenseman that is basically the equivalent of Letang or Carlson.

After that mix'n'match your D. But you need your play driver. A guy like Muzzin would be nice to keep, but it would have to be reasonable. Dermott is solid, and I think he's a keeper. A couple of rookies who can play and contribute for smaller minutes aren't going to kill you.

Matthews and Nylander for McDavid.

Who says no?

I think the team gets a lot of flak based on past performance and people are stuck on recent playoff failure. The leaf are not in a bad position at all.
- kaptaan

The current champs missed the palyoffs last year. I never buy the "Hasn't gotten out of the 1st round yet" arguments. It's irrelevant in hockey.

Florida hasn't won in forever. I wouldn't eliminate them for that same reason.

Exception, not the rule.
- aminnes

Leafs certainly have a #1 DMan though.

It isn't because it hasn't been. It can be.

Rielly is 24 and getting better. Dermott is solid. Maybe Liljegren and/or Sandin come up this year, or impress next year.

Frankly, Pittsburgh won four years ago with a defense of Letang, Dumoulin, Maata, Lovejoy, Cole and Daley/Schultz. That's not an SC contending defense either. Except the next year they also won the Cup with a defense of Schultz, Cole, Hainsey, Maata, Dumoulin and Daley - which is even worse.

Washington won the next year with Carlson, Niskanen, Orlov, Orpik, Kempny and Djoos.

Rielly is the puck driving defenseman that is basically the equivalent of Letang or Carlson.

After that mix'n'match your D. But you need your play driver. A guy like Muzzin would be nice to keep, but it would have to be reasonable. Dermott is solid, and I think he's a keeper. A couple of rookies who can play and contribute for smaller minutes aren't going to kill you.
- Monkeypunk

Say what you want about those "weaker" blueline teams but they are not the norm and the top end forwards in front of them are literally the best of this generation in Crosby, Malkin and Ovechkin who could score themselves out of trouble.

Additionally, those "weaker" bluelines, still featured players that could effectively play the shutdown role, kill penalties and actually keep the puck out of the net, something the Leafs blueline hasn't proven it can do.

And finally, those teams also got incredible goaltending from Fleury, Murray and Holtby, all three better than Andersen.

Matthews and Nylander for McDavid.

Who says no?
- Arctic_AARDVARK

Edmonton.

Exception, not the rule.
- aminnes

You are just very biased here.

First of all the Leafs Defense isn’t bad..but that’s another argument on itself.

But.

The Oilers won with a bad Defense in 2006.

The Hawks won with bad goaltending in 2010.

The Bruins won with bad forwards in 2011.

This is at the top of my head. I could look into more...

The point is teams are flawed in some areas...it’s the cap world. All you can do to fight against this is to get a team identity and a good system to match it.

You are beating a dead horse here with the “leafs can’t win with this D”

I like Willy hard down my throat.
- aminnes

We're not surprised!

Edmonton.
- Atomic Wedgie

Winner.

exactly!! When he lays another egg to start off the season, then there would be a negative value for him. We'd have to sweeten the deal just to offload his cap hit.
- JDub76

He's not going to "Lay an Egg" at all. You really think he' s a 30 point player?

Stop making him sound like Lucic. It's ridiculous.

You are just very biased here.

First of all the Leafs Defense isn’t bad..but that’s another argument on itself.

But.

The Oilers won with a bad Defense in 2006.

The Hawks won with bad goaltending in 2010.

The Bruins won with bad forwards in 2011.

This is at the top of my head. I could look into more...

The point is teams are flawed in some areas...it’s the cap world. All you can do to fight against this is to get a team identity and a good system to match it.

You are beating a dead horse here with the “leafs can’t win with this D”
- Santo_44

Oilers didn't win poop.

Leafs D of Rielly, Muzzin, Barrie is not bad at all. It's so much better than that Pens D

Do you really want to do this?

I’ve done it on here plenty of times with people like you.

I say the facts. Then the facts are wrong because “you know hockey” “Willie is soft”
- Santo_44

So you have nothing then? I figured as much.
Here I'll start for you.... Nylander has 67 hits over 239 games played. That's soft for any league.

Go compare Arvidsson to Nylander. Same draft, and they both had back to back 61 point seasons, with almost identical starts to their careers, except that Arvidsson scored 18 more goals during that 2 year stretch. Now Arvidsson has a 4.25 million salary and cap hit and Nylander has a 9 million salary and 6.96 million cap hit. I know which one I'd rather have.

As a die hard Leaf fan I hope if he's not traded that he does figure his game out, but yes my experience tells me he will not, and his current history of performance tells me he's a risk. the numbers tell me Nylander (27 pts) is extremely overpaid for what he produces. He's paid more than Pastrnak (81 pts), Gaudreau (99 pts) and Backstrom (74 pts).

It isn't because it hasn't been. It can be.

Rielly is 24 and getting better. Dermott is solid. Maybe Liljegren and/or Sandin come up this year, or impress next year.

Frankly, Pittsburgh won four years ago with a defense of Letang, Dumoulin, Maata, Lovejoy, Cole and Daley/Schultz. That's not an SC contending defense either. Except the next year they also won the Cup with a defense of Schultz, Cole, Hainsey, Maata, Dumoulin and Daley - which is even worse.

Washington won the next year with Carlson, Niskanen, Orlov, Orpik, Kempny and Djoos.

Rielly is the puck driving defenseman that is basically the equivalent of Letang or Carlson.

After that mix'n'match your D. But you need your play driver. A guy like Muzzin would be nice to keep, but it would have to be reasonable. Dermott is solid, and I think he's a keeper. A couple of rookies who can play and contribute for smaller minutes aren't going to kill you.
- Monkeypunk

Would you say those guys were better in their own end though? I mean, Barrie and Ceci are amongst the worst defenders in the league in their own end.

So you have nothing then? I figured as much.
Here I'll start for you.... Nylander has 67 hits over 239 games played. That's soft for any league.

Go compare Arvidsson to Nylander. Same draft, and they both had back to back 61 point seasons, with almost identical starts to their careers, except that Arvidsson scored 18 more goals during that 2 year stretch. Now Arvidsson has a 4.25 million salary and cap hit and Nylander has a 9 million salary and 6.96 million cap hit. I know which one I'd rather have.

As a die hard Leaf fan I hope if he's not traded that he does figure his game out, but yes my experience tells me he will not, and his current history of performance tells me he's a risk. the numbers tell me Nylander (27 pts) is extremely overpaid for what he produces. He's paid more than Pastrnak (81 pts), Gaudreau (99 pts) and Backstrom (74 pts).
- JDub76

Leafs outhit Boston and lost. Do you really think their issue is toughness? The reason I see for the last 2 years losing to Boston has been the goaltender shiitting the bed in game 7 and Gardiner being combined -7, and Kadri being suspended.

Oilers didn't win poop.
- JohnFergusonJr

Right.

It was game 7. They were a game away from winning so to me the point stands.

Like I said it was at the top of my head...I’ll gladly look at the past 20 cup winners and see that each had flaws.

Edmonton.
- Atomic Wedgie

Yeah probably.

You’d think if both the Leafs and Oilers somehow have another unsuccessful season, that talk would start around bringing Connor to TO. Just from a business standpoint, it could work.

Isn't hockey exciting? Go Leafs Go!

So you have nothing then? I figured as much.
Here I'll start for you.... Nylander has 67 hits over 239 games played. That's soft for any league.

Go compare Arvidsson to Nylander. Same draft, and they both had back to back 61 point seasons, with almost identical starts to their careers, except that Arvidsson scored 18 more goals during that 2 year stretch. Now Arvidsson has a 4.25 million salary and cap hit and Nylander has a 9 million salary and 6.96 million cap hit. I know which one I'd rather have.

As a die hard Leaf fan I hope if he's not traded that he does figure his game out, but yes my experience tells me he will not, and his current history of performance tells me he's a risk. the numbers tell me Nylander (27 pts) is extremely overpaid for what he produces. He's paid more than Pastrnak (81 pts), Gaudreau (99 pts) and Backstrom (74 pts).
- JDub76

Winner - Gagnant!

Ps. His threats are empty, but he will cry to a ref, lmao.

Yeah probably.

You’d think if both the Leafs and Oilers somehow have another unsuccessful season, that talk would start around bring Connor to TO. Just from a business standpoint it work.
- Arctic_AARDVARK

I wouldn't think that. Summer talk on the infernet, but nothing real.

new blog everyone

I wouldn't think that. Summer talk on the infernet, but nothing real.
- Zezel

It could happen tho..

Maybe Oilers fans will be okay with it, and could be spun as a win for Holland?

It’s not impossible, my Garry’s is 20%

Leafs outhit Boston and lost. Do you really think their issue is toughness? The reason I see for the last 2 years losing to Boston has been the goaltender shiitting the bed in game 7 and Gardiner being combined -7, and Kadri being suspended.
- RogerRoeper

Yes, that's a major problem for this team.

Leafs played scared at times and lacked the killer instinct to put the series away.

Toughness is more than hits and fights. It includes mental toughness. Sometimes it's about taking a hit to make a play, not necessarily throwing hits. And there's not enough of those guys willing to make those sacrifices.

Would you say those guys were better in their own end though? I mean, Barrie and Ceci are amongst the worst defenders in the league in their own end.
- aminnes

New faces = automatically amazing and therefore better.

Exception, not the rule.
- aminnes

Doesn't exclude your comment from being full of holes since 3 of the last 4 cup winning defenses have pretty much sucked with the exception of a #1 playmaking D-Man.

What passes for an SC calibre defense (I love Carolina and St. Louis as well for this) isn't the dominant factor for winning cups - because it is much harder to play strong defense *if* the interference and obstruction penalties are called. I think both styles have as much chance, really.