Wanna blog? Start your own hockey blog with My HockeyBuzz. Register for free today!
 
Forums :: Blog World :: Ryan Wilson: UFA breakdowns: The "I don't get it" version
Author Message
Victoro311
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: San Diego, CA
Joined: 06.17.2014

Jul 3 @ 9:12 AM ET
No it is a loss because you could have gotten rid of JJ instead. Jim said that he had to trade either Maatta or JJ. He made the wrong choice.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Jim said he had to trade either Maatta or Johnson. Jim did not say he had a trade on the table for both Maatta and Johnson. I do not think Johnson is moveable. I’m sure he explored it and quickly made a GOB Bluth “I’ve made a huge mistake” realization.
MattStrat
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: ...serial abuser...and misuser...of the ellipsis , NF
Joined: 12.12.2014

Jul 3 @ 9:14 AM ET
So after thinking about it a couple days I’m pretty ambivalent to the moves this offseason. I think we’re in pretty much the same place, got a bit worse talent wise, and didn’t address the major issue of last season.

Maatta trade was good. I’m a big Maatta guy and firmly believe he was one of our four best defensemen, but he was done here and we needed cap relief. Kahun is a good piece that recoups value on Maatta while relieving cap. That’s a win.

Thing is we didn’t use the new cap well. Let me just say that Tanev is a fine player and I don’t give a damn about the term cus the Crosby/Malkin window won’t last that long. My issue is that we didn’t need Tanev, forward depth was never an issue last year, and we overpaid in AAV for a piece we didn’t need. So now we have no space to address our actual need on the blue line and we probably have to move out Rust who I think is a better player. This was a needless rearrangement of deck chairs when there were other fish to fry. If we were gonna spend on a forward it should have been on a clear cut upgrade over Rust, which Tanev isn’t.

Finally the Phil trade. I’ve always been a fan of Alex Galchenyuk and actually believe there is a chance he can provide a better 5v5 product with Malkin than Phil. Thing is that Galch isn’t that young anymore so my theory that he can really kill it at 5v5 riding shotgun with Geno is completely contingent on the idea that Montreal and Arizona were awful situations for him. That might not be the case and he might just legitimately be the pedestrian top 9 player he’s shown to be so far. Either way, the switch from Phil to Galch is going to seriously cripple our PP since we no longer have an elite level player to play the left half wall, and unless Galch becomes a 30 ES goal guy next to Malkin, that’s probably gonna leave points on the floor in the standings.

So we got deeper, but not necessarily better at forward in an attempt to fix what wasn’t broken. We didn’t actually address what was broken (the blue line) at all. But we still have Sid, Geno, and Letang so anything can happen. If we have better luck with health this season and Sullivan makes better personnel decisions (don’t nullify our second best puck moving defenseman by putting him with Johnson) we could in theory do better than last season. If we keep having the average amount of injuries and Sullivan decides that Johnson-Schultz is a viable pairing, I expect a repeat of last season. Possibly worse given that Sid, Geno, and Letang are all a year older and we lost Phil.

- Victoro311



The PP was anemic and brutal a lot of nights with Phil there last season. They have more than enough talent for the PP to be good this year.

Galch is only 25, so in his prime but I think most importantly in a contract year where he is going to want his next contract to be high paying and long term. Even if he has a stellar season and out prices himself the Pens will have 5 mill cap space at their disposal if he doesnt resign. If he doesnt work well, well, he can be flipped at the deadline for at least something, or just not resigned.

Youre right with the overall feel of this post though. What needed to be addressed was the D, not so much the forwards, though I will say if they manage to keep Rust then the forward lines might be deeper and more balanced overall than last year. This would mean Wilson and Cullen arnt on the 4th line.
Victoro311
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: San Diego, CA
Joined: 06.17.2014

Jul 3 @ 9:23 AM ET
The PP was anemic and brutal a lot of nights with Phil there last season. They have more than enough talent for the PP to be good this year.

Galch is only 25, so in his prime but I think most importantly in a contract year where he is going to want his next contract to be high paying and long term. Even if he has a stellar season and out prices himself the Pens will have 5 mill cap space at their disposal if he doesnt resign. If he doesnt work well, well, he can be flipped at the deadline for at least something, or just not resigned.

Youre right with the overall feel of this post though. What needed to be addressed was the D, not so much the forwards, though I will say if they manage to keep Rust then the forward lines might be deeper and more balanced overall than last year. This would mean Wilson and Cullen arnt on the 4th line.

- MattStrat

Eh, PPs go through dry spells and even with it feeling like our PP sucked last season it was still #7 overall in the NHL. You think it went anemic last year? It’s gonna be even more so without one of the top PP producers in the league, especially given that the two guys that make most sense skill wise to replace Phil on the left half wall (Jake and Galch) have the wrong handiness and thus can’t play there. If we went with a forward the next in line is probably Rust which is laughable to think about, so we’re gonna have to go with Schultz which is a big downgrade.

At 25 Galch is in his prime, but that’s why I’m concerned. At 25 you usually don’t develop anymore and Galchenyuk has basically been a 20 and 40 guy with PP time. That’s not gonna cut it to replace Phil especially when he’s not gonna get top PP time here probably. Your last two scenarios are really bad for Pitt as it basically means we gave Phil up for nothing. There’s no reason to believe the cap space would be used well.
MattStrat
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: ...serial abuser...and misuser...of the ellipsis , NF
Joined: 12.12.2014

Jul 3 @ 9:29 AM ET
Eh, PPs go through dry spells and even with it feeling like our PP sucked last season it was still #7 overall in the NHL. You think it went anemic last year? It’s gonna be even more so without one of the top PP producers in the league, especially given that the two guys that make most sense skill wise to replace Phil on the left half wall (Jake and Galch) have the wrong handiness and thus can’t play there. If we went with a forward the next in line is probably Rust which is laughable to think about, so we’re gonna have to go with Schultz which is a big downgrade.

At 25 Galch is in his prime, but that’s why I’m concerned. At 25 you usually don’t develop anymore and Galchenyuk has basically been a 20 and 40 guy with PP time. That’s not gonna cut it to replace Phil especially when he’s not gonna get top PP time here probably. Your last two scenarios are really bad for Pitt as it basically means we gave Phil up for nothing. There’s no reason to believe the cap space would be used well.

- Victoro311



I said anemic and brutal a lot of nights and it was. Most of us here would be wishing they didnt even get a PP it was so bad for long stretches. Just lifeless and careless. Pens were much better on 5 on 5 last season than PP and Phil sucked at 5 on 5.

Youre right about the no reason to believe the space would be spent well haha...ugh
nateca44
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: butler, PA
Joined: 01.16.2008

Jul 3 @ 9:31 AM ET
Eh, PPs go through dry spells and even with it feeling like our PP sucked last season it was still #7 overall in the NHL. You think it went anemic last year? It’s gonna be even more so without one of the top PP producers in the league, especially given that the two guys that make most sense skill wise to replace Phil on the left half wall (Jake and Galch) have the wrong handiness and thus can’t play there. If we went with a forward the next in line is probably Rust which is laughable to think about, so we’re gonna have to go with Schultz which is a big downgrade.

At 25 Galch is in his prime, but that’s why I’m concerned. At 25 you usually don’t develop anymore and Galchenyuk has basically been a 20 and 40 guy with PP time. That’s not gonna cut it to replace Phil especially when he’s not gonna get top PP time here probably. Your last two scenarios are really bad for Pitt as it basically means we gave Phil up for nothing. There’s no reason to believe the cap space would be used well.

- Victoro311


Galch will be playing next to Malkin or Crosby for the next 3 years. I can guarantee if he stays healthy his numbers will be much better than playing with less talent.
I think everyone is forgetting we still have 3 elite players on this team. It's going to be ok. A lot of you sound like chicken little.
burgh4life87
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Joined: 04.22.2014

Jul 3 @ 9:32 AM ET
Jim said he had to trade either Maatta or Johnson. Jim did not say he had a trade on the table for both Maatta and Johnson. I do not think Johnson is moveable. I’m sure he explored it and quickly made a GOB Bluth “I’ve made a huge mistake” realization.
- Victoro311


Every team knows we are trying to shed salary and he is the top guy to go so they are probably asking for a high draft pick or top prospect in addition to an already low return. I think you can trade Jack, but you absolutely have to sacrifice someone in the prospect pool. And if I am being honest, I would rather do that than trade any of the current forwards. I like our forward depth this season.
Victoro311
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: San Diego, CA
Joined: 06.17.2014

Jul 3 @ 9:37 AM ET
Galch will be playing next to Malkin or Crosby for the next 3 years. I can guarantee if he stays healthy his numbers will be much better than playing with less talent.
I think everyone is forgetting we still have 3 elite players on this team. It's going to be ok. A lot of you sound like chicken little.

- nateca44

The TL;DNR version of my comments was I don’t like the moves but theres a chance it turns out fine. How is that chicken little? A lot of people on this sub get personally offended if each move isn’t praised.
nateca44
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: butler, PA
Joined: 01.16.2008

Jul 3 @ 9:47 AM ET
The TL;DNR version of my comments was I don’t like the moves but theres a chance it turns out fine. How is that chicken little? A lot of people on this sub get personally offended if each move isn’t praised.
- Victoro311


I'm not offended at all. Just reading through all of these comments make it seem like we traded Kessel for a flat tire and a half eaten hamburger from Madden. Maybe, just maybe Malkin and Crosby had a bit of say so in these moves? I doubt Rutherford had full control. I'm sure it had to pass through the owners.
j.boyd919
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Tampa, FL
Joined: 06.14.2011

Jul 3 @ 9:55 AM ET
I said anemic and brutal a lot of nights and it was. Most of us here would be wishing they didnt even get a PP it was so bad for long stretches. Just lifeless and careless. Pens were much better on 5 on 5 last season than PP and Phil sucked at 5 on 5.

Youre right about the no reason to believe the space would be spent well haha...ugh

- MattStrat


This thought is bananalands.
j.boyd919
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Tampa, FL
Joined: 06.14.2011

Jul 3 @ 9:56 AM ET
I'm not offended at all. Just reading through all of these comments make it seem like we traded Kessel for a flat tire and a half eaten hamburger from Madden. Maybe, just maybe Malkin and Crosby had a bit of say so in these moves? I doubt Rutherford had full control. I'm sure it had to pass through the owners.
- nateca44


We traded Kessel for a statistically worse version of Kessel that’s left handed.

Also don’t believe Sid and Geno have that much input, if so.. why are all of their buddies gone? Kunitz, Fleury, Reaves, etc. All the guys that Sid and Geno “loved on the team” are gonzo.
Victoro311
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: San Diego, CA
Joined: 06.17.2014

Jul 3 @ 10:00 AM ET
I'm not offended at all. Just reading through all of these comments make it seem like we traded Kessel for a flat tire and a half eaten hamburger from Madden. Maybe, just maybe Malkin and Crosby had a bit of say so in these moves? I doubt Rutherford had full control. I'm sure it had to pass through the owners.
- nateca44

I don’t think we traded him for a flat tire. Like I said I like Chuck. But it’s also just a fact that Galchenyuk has not been nearly as good as Phil Kessel and for this trade to not be considered bad he needs to really outperform his past production. Could definitely happen. He has a ton of skill and hasn’t been in the best situations, but could also definitely not happen. It’s a gamble, and the best case scenario seems to be “not a disaster” rather than “legitimately good trade”.
MattStrat
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: ...serial abuser...and misuser...of the ellipsis , NF
Joined: 12.12.2014

Jul 3 @ 10:02 AM ET
This thought is bananalands.
- j.boyd919


hahaha


I remember him going like 35 games without a 5 on 5 goal and Im pretty sure people have posted his pretty damn lackluster 5 on 5 fancy stats around here a few times...I could be wrong though, but my eye test did not like Phil 5 on 5 last year.
j.boyd919
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Tampa, FL
Joined: 06.14.2011

Jul 3 @ 10:08 AM ET
hahaha


I remember him going like 35 games without a 5 on 5 goal and Im pretty sure people have posted his pretty damn lackluster 5 on 5 fancy stats around here a few times...I could be wrong though, but my eye test did not like Phil 5 on 5 last year.

- MattStrat


No no it was more the Pens were better 5v5 over PP. It just seems difficult to judge. I try to wrap my head around how to compare the two and I can’t. Hahah
nateca44
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: butler, PA
Joined: 01.16.2008

Jul 3 @ 10:10 AM ET
I don’t think we traded him for a flat tire. Like I said I like Chuck. But it’s also just a fact that Galchenyuk has not been nearly as good as Phil Kessel and for this trade to not be considered bad he needs to really outperform his past production. Could definitely happen. He has a ton of skill and hasn’t been in the best situations, but could also definitely not happen. It’s a gamble, and the best case scenario seems to be “not a disaster” rather than “legitimately good trade”.
- Victoro311


Any truth to the rumors Phil asked for a trade? If so, he had the call on which team/teams they were traded to right? I think for what we got considering the circumstances, I'll take a slightly less Phil Kessel that's 7 years younger. Also, go check out that Pierre-Oliver. Seems like if he puts on some weight he could be a top 4 dman. Sounds pretty legit to me.
MattStrat
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: ...serial abuser...and misuser...of the ellipsis , NF
Joined: 12.12.2014

Jul 3 @ 10:16 AM ET
Any truth to the rumors Phil asked for a trade? If so, he had the call on which team/teams they were traded to right? I think for what we got considering the circumstances, I'll take a slightly less Phil Kessel that's 7 years younger. Also, go check out that Pierre-Oliver. Seems like if he puts on some weight he could be a top 4 dman. Sounds pretty legit to me.
- nateca44



He says he never asked but this same thing happened in Boston. He denied requesting a trade but the GM says he did.

He could be worried about what fans think of him.....or he may never really of ever asked, though knowing there's been two instances makes me believe hes lying.
Victoro311
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: San Diego, CA
Joined: 06.17.2014

Jul 3 @ 10:17 AM ET
Any truth to the rumors Phil asked for a trade? If so, he had the call on which team/teams they were traded to right? I think for what we got considering the circumstances, I'll take a slightly less Phil Kessel that's 7 years younger. Also, go check out that Pierre-Oliver. Seems like if he puts on some weight he could be a top 4 dman. Sounds pretty legit to me.
- nateca44

Depends who you believe. Rutherford has said Phil asked for a trade and Phil openly denied it saying that Rutherford told him he would never be a penguin again.
MattStrat
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: ...serial abuser...and misuser...of the ellipsis , NF
Joined: 12.12.2014

Jul 3 @ 10:18 AM ET
No no it was more the Pens were better 5v5 over PP. It just seems difficult to judge. I try to wrap my head around how to compare the two and I can’t. Hahah
- j.boyd919


hahah well wouldnt his 5 on 5 relative stats be a good indicator?...and isnt there a way to see how his teammates were with or without him at 5 on 5?
Victoro311
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: San Diego, CA
Joined: 06.17.2014

Jul 3 @ 10:18 AM ET
He says he never asked but this same thing happened in Boston. He denied requesting a trade but the GM says he did.

He could be worried about what fans think of him.....or he may never really of ever asked, though knowing there's been two instances makes me believe hes lying.

- MattStrat

Either way I think Rutherford wanted to move him. Phil could have asked for something that Rutherford was already deadset on doing.
MattStrat
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: ...serial abuser...and misuser...of the ellipsis , NF
Joined: 12.12.2014

Jul 3 @ 10:20 AM ET
Either way I think Rutherford wanted to move him. Phil could have asked for something that Rutherford was already deadset on doing.
- Victoro311


I think thats definitely true.
Thorny87
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Calgary, AB
Joined: 10.17.2014

Jul 3 @ 10:24 AM ET
Has anyone in the organization said they'd never buy out a player? Is it a Mario thing? Players always say it's a business, why is this team afraid to treat it so?

They have been given an easy out and regardless of the $ amount over time, it creates space for the immediate future and makes the team better.

A trade of Rust for Pulj and a JJ buyout should free up the space for the new Russian boner no?
Thorny87
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Calgary, AB
Joined: 10.17.2014

Jul 3 @ 10:27 AM ET
I think thats definitely true.
- MattStrat

I could also see JR being furious about the nixed Minn trade if it was indeed Kessel+JJ for the other two.

JR would've come out clean on that one.
j.boyd919
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Tampa, FL
Joined: 06.14.2011

Jul 3 @ 10:31 AM ET
Any truth to the rumors Phil asked for a trade? If so, he had the call on which team/teams they were traded to right? I think for what we got considering the circumstances, I'll take a slightly less Phil Kessel that's 7 years younger. Also, go check out that Pierre-Oliver. Seems like if he puts on some weight he could be a top 4 dman. Sounds pretty legit to me.
- nateca44


It’s not a slightly less Phil lol 30-40 points is a lot more than slightly less.
j.boyd919
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Tampa, FL
Joined: 06.14.2011

Jul 3 @ 10:34 AM ET
hahah well wouldnt his 5 on 5 relative stats be a good indicator?...and isnt there a way to see how his teammates were with or without him at 5 on 5?
- MattStrat


Again, I’m not even talking about Phil. I am only referring to the Pens being better at 5v5 vs PP. I think the Penguins were far more dangerous at PP than at 5v5.

Pens PP - 21 HDCF/60
Pens 5v5 - 12 HDCF/60
Rinosaur
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Somewhere, NJ
Joined: 01.21.2016

Jul 3 @ 10:38 AM ET
I just don't think they've really tried to move Johnson or Gudbranson. When you look at the Toronto/Ottawa deal, you're telling me Rutherford couldn't have offered Johnson + Rust or even ZAR?

Zaitsev is marginally better than Johnson in some areas, but equally bad in most and has a much worse contract. If JR wanted to move Johnson he could. He doesn't want to and that's our biggest tipoff he's lost his grip.
MattStrat
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: ...serial abuser...and misuser...of the ellipsis , NF
Joined: 12.12.2014

Jul 3 @ 10:41 AM ET
Again, I’m not even talking about Phil. I am only referring to the Pens being better at 5v5 vs PP. I think the Penguins were far more dangerous at PP than at 5v5.

Pens PP - 21 HDCF/60
Pens 5v5 - 12 HDCF/60

- j.boyd919



Well yeah, it only makes sense there'd be more HDSC on the PP than 5 on 5...theyre playing with an extra player. There's also only like 2 to 8 mins of PP time a game. Sometimes none, sometimes a bit more.
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next