Darn my graphic making ability, will clean that up shortly.
And fixed.
- freelancer

Get your sh!t together, Sean. It's not like you are new to this blogging thing anymore.

We need Iggy, Jero, Ginger Murse and Laughs back
- Reveen.

It's true.
No laughs = no fun.
No iggy and no jero means who is left to tell to suck it?

Reeven...they, the toronto media are saying marner is getting 11.5m

What about Zaitsev + Kadri for Russell + Kassian? Leafs save ~$3M, add "grit" and shave years of contract commitments, while Oilers get the best player in the deal (Kadri) and shore up the 3C role.

You don't even get a crap deal like that through NHL 19.

Edit - I should elaborate. Z for Russell is close to a wash. Kadri for Kassian? That doesn't even happen 10 years ago when Kassian had "potential" to be any more than a 4th line RW.

You don't even get a crap deal like that through NHL 19.

Edit - I should elaborate. Z for Russell is close to a wash. Kadri for Kassian? That doesn't even happen 10 years ago when Kassian had "potential" to be any more than a 4th line RW.
- leafsfann

In overall ability, Zaitsev for Russell is pretty much a wash. However, one of them has got 3 extra years at 0.5mil more so that sways the value pretty heavy. Not enough to justify Kadri, but let's not pretend that Zaitsev isn't a pretty significant negative value.

“Russell, Benning, Puljujarvi for Zaitsev, Brown, Kapanen”
- Lemmewinks

poope, double-poope, and maybe potential but taking forever to ripen
For
Overpaid meh, a solid bottom 6, and a ready top 6.
Hard No
- Wingdings

Overpaid meh, good bottom pair RD and potential for Long term overpaid meh, a solid bottom-6 and a (likely) solid top-6.

Kapanen's production away from Matthews is around replacement level but, in fairness, he was likely playing with trash linemates during those times. Last year his P/60 with Matthews was around 2.47 and 1.18 away from Matthews. 1st line production generally sits around 2+, 2nd line at above 1.75, 3rd line above 1.5 and so on.

By no means a guarantee but still a good bet with a great skillset.

In overall ability, Zaitsev for Russell is pretty much a wash. However, one of them has got 3 extra years at 0.5mil more so that sways the value pretty heavy. Not enough to justify Kadri, but let's not pretend that Zaitsev isn't a pretty significant negative value.
- MaximumBone

I can agree that it's definitely not enough to justify Kadri. If be all for swapping garbage and hoping a change in scenery benefits some of the players, and I'll try to keep my fanboy bias to a minimum, but Kadri is not garbage. He's a cost controlled player that's a 2c on most teams.

Dubas needs his friends the Toronto Sports Network to help him create a market for Zaitsev before July 1

Holland on Puljujarvi’s development: “You’ve got to come to the rink everyday and know you’re in the lineup.”

“He’s had lots of adversity. Hoping with a new GM and new coach and that he’s a little bit older that we can get him in the lineup on a regular basis and earn trust.”

Now they could still move JP but just thought I would share that

Reeven...they, the toronto media are saying marner is getting 11.5m
- mykokes

Maybe now...but two months ago they were trying to convince the world otherwise.

Dubas needs his friends the Toronto Sports Network to help him create a market for Zaitsev before July 1
- vols94

This

It's true.
No laughs = no fun.
No iggy and no jero means who is left to tell to suck it?
- ruttager17

Those two are now sucking each other in purgatory. Where the (frank) is JB ?

Not buying that for a second. Sure he's asked for a trade, but he's definitely not bringing value at 4.5mil for another 5 years and that's definitely a consideration when deciding who to trade. His asking for a trade helps that, but he's definitely not worth that contract.

He's consistently well below the team average in most results stats- particularly poor results within the slot- and seems to be a noticeable drag on every D partner he has played with over the past 3 years. Of the past three years, the only year he played a particularly difficult role in was 2016-17 when he spent most of the season alongside Rielly. The last two years has seem him take on consistently 2nd pairing-level opposition with either Gardiner or Muzzin- two productive and quality Dmen whose results surge when away from Zaitsev.

Maybe Holland buys this sell-job of your team's trash, but we certainly don't.
- MaximumBone

His 'difficult' year was the year he played a primarily offensive pairing with rielly? The year he excelled and earned that contract? Bye credibility...

Zaitsev was shoved into a defensive role immediately after that season and has regressed since. It's not his game, he knows it. It's tanking his career and he wants out of it.

I was being sincere, he would be a benefit to Edmonton in a role he is actually suited for, and I'd much rather him stay in Toronto to play that role. Russell is poop, and I wouldn't take him for zaitsev if you threw something of value in with him...

The leafs are not desperate enough for cap space to trade their only legitimate RHD for a straight up cap dump. They are under a rising cap now, they have LTIR to use, and plenty of other avenues to gain additional cap space if needed. Do some research before continuing to toot your own horn, the only thing it's showing is that you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

I though the Oilers wanted to strengthen their defense so why would they trade for Zaitzev?

I get back from work and it looks like some female genitalia wants "research" and "credibility"? Well, allow me to show you the research I did prior to making that post.

His 'difficult' year was the year he played a primarily offensive pairing with rielly? The year he excelled and earned that contract? Bye credibility...
- joel878

Yes, his difficult year was when he played on the top pairing with Rielly and spent 43.5% of his total minutes (source #1) playing against the opposition's best players. The season he "excelled" to the tune of -10.91% team relative goal share, -6.13% team relative HD chance share and minuses in pretty much every other team relative stat (source #2). While Gardiner played merely 28.9% of his time against the best, Zaitsev and Rielly played the hard minutes and their results suffered because of it

Zaitsev was shoved into a defensive role immediately after that season and has regressed since. It's not his game, he knows it. It's tanking his career and he wants out of it.
- joel878

A defensive role only in that he had to cover for Gardiner's offensive sorties. In doing that, he started seeing weaker competition (see source #1, 2017-18) and saw his numbers take a bit of a jump, but it didn't last. The following year under much the same conditions, his results took a substantial dip as his poor play dragged down the results of literally every Dman he partnered with:

Partner/GF% Together/Zaitsev GF% Away/Partner GF% Away/Diff.

Gardiner/ 50.9%/ 33.3%/ 61.5%/ -28.2%
Muzzin/ 50%/ 43.5%/ 70.4%/ -26.9%
Dermott/ 44.4%/ 50%/ 52.2%/ -2.2%
Hainsey/ 36.4%/ 50%/ 58.2%/ -8.2%
(he saw 39 mins of 5-on-5 time w/ Rielly)

But those are some small sample sizes that- as such an evidence-based and credible man such as yourself must know- needed to be compared to a larger one. So here's his results with those same players over his whole career:

Gardiner/ 51.6%/ 43.3%/ 65.8%/ -22.5%
Rielly/ 40.2%/ 50.2%/ 55.8%/ -5.6
Muzzin/ 50%/ 43.5%/ 70.4%/ -26.9%
Dermott/ 44.4%/ 50%/ 52.2%/ -2.2%
Hainsey/ 48%/ 50%/ 56%/ -6%

Keeping in mind that Maple Leafs were running a 54.1% GF during this stretch of 3 seasons. Turns out the evidence supported my initial findings- the one's you seem intent on decrying as "not researched" and "non-credible". I'd go into more nuanced numbers that would show more precise measures of what he's good at and what's leading to his failures, but I feel no inclination to waste such on you.

I was being sincere, he would be a benefit to Edmonton in a role he is actually suited for, and I'd much rather him stay in Toronto to play that role.
- joel878

And here's the fundamental part that you're not understanding: he'd be playing the same role here. He'd be paired on the 2nd pairing, playing secondary opposition and having to cover for an offensive LD with a tendency to over-extend at times (Nurse). If he's not suited to play the role in Toronto, he's not suited to our 2nd pair.

I Russell is poop, and I wouldn't take him for zaitsev if you threw something of value in with him...
- joel878

Good, keep your trash. As we've established, we want nothing to do with him and his propensity for being a significant drag on all his D partners. At least Russell's contract will be over in 2 years.

The leafs are not desperate enough for cap space to trade their only legitimate RHD for a straight up cap dump. They are under a rising cap now, they have LTIR to use, and plenty of other avenues to gain additional cap space if needed. Do some research before continuing to toot your own horn, the only thing it's showing is that you don't have a clue what you're talking about.
- joel878

Then go ahead and take all those other means of freeing up cap space because Zaitsev is precisely what we want to avoid: bad, overplayed and overpaid.

Congratulations on showing your overwhelming conceit and allowing me the opportunity to lay out why Zaitsev would be among the worst possible acquisitions any team could make. I already gave away 1st prize a few years ago, but here's your participation award:



___________

Source #1: http://www.puckiq.com/players/8479458
Source #2: http://www.naturalstattri...te=r&v=p&playerid=8479458

I get back from work and it looks like some female genitalia wants "research" and "credibility"? Well, allow me to show you the research I did prior to making that post.

Yes, his difficult year was when he played on the top pairing with Rielly and spent 43.5% of his total minutes (source #1) playing against the opposition's best players. The season he "excelled" to the tune of -10.91% team relative goal share, -6.13% team relative HD chance share and minuses in pretty much every other team relative stat (source #2). While Gardiner played merely 28.9% of his time against the best, Zaitsev and Rielly played the hard minutes and their results suffered because of it

A defensive role only in that he had to cover for Gardiner's offensive sorties. In doing that, he started seeing weaker competition (see source #1, 2017-18) and saw his numbers take a bit of a jump, but it didn't last. The following year under much the same conditions, his results took a substantial dip as his poor play dragged down the results of literally every Dman he partnered with:

Partner/GF% Together/Zaitsev GF% Away/Partner GF% Away/Diff.

Gardiner/ 50.9%/ 33.3%/ 61.5%/ -28.2%
Muzzin/ 50%/ 43.5%/ 70.4%/ -26.9%
Dermott/ 44.4%/ 50%/ 52.2%/ -2.2%
Hainsey/ 36.4%/ 50%/ 58.2%/ -8.2%
(he saw 39 mins of 5-on-5 time w/ Rielly)

But those are some small sample sizes that- as such an evidence-based and credible man such as yourself must know- needed to be compared to a larger one. So here's his results with those same players over his whole career:

Gardiner/ 51.6%/ 43.3%/ 65.8%/ -22.5%
Rielly/ 40.2%/ 50.2%/ 55.8%/ -5.6
Muzzin/ 50%/ 43.5%/ 70.4%/ -26.9%
Dermott/ 44.4%/ 50%/ 52.2%/ -2.2%
Hainsey/ 48%/ 50%/ 56%/ -6%

Keeping in mind that Maple Leafs were running a 54.1% GF during this stretch of 3 seasons. Turns out the evidence supported my initial findings- the one's you seem intent on decrying as "not researched" and "non-credible". I'd go into more nuanced numbers that would show more precise measures of what he's good at and what's leading to his failures, but I feel no inclination to waste such on you.

And here's the fundamental part that you're not understanding: he'd be playing the same role here. He'd be paired on the 2nd pairing, playing secondary opposition and having to cover for an offensive LD with a tendency to over-extend at times (Nurse). If he's not suited to play the role in Toronto, he's not suited to our 2nd pair.

Good, keep your trash. As we've established, we want nothing to do with him and his propensity for being a significant drag on all his D partners. At least Russell's contract will be over in 2 years.

Then go ahead and take all those other means of freeing up cap space because Zaitsev is precisely what we want to avoid: bad, overplayed and overpaid.

Congratulations on showing your overwhelming conceit and allowing me the opportunity to lay out why Zaitsev would be among the worst possible acquisitions any team could make. I already gave away 1st prize a few years ago, but here's your participation award:



___________

Source #1: http://www.puckiq.com/players/8479458
Source #2: http://www.naturalstattri...te=r&v=p&playerid=8479458
- MaximumBone

https://www.tsn.ca/washin...r-matt-niskanen-1.1322266

What. The. Fuuuuck?! It was THAT easy to get him? They even retained cap to take on Niskanen! First Jensen, now this.

Since it’s Dreger saying it I have zero reason to panic on such a stupid move for the Oilers
- RatedR80

Yet other fans believe Dreger with his stories that every single Leaf RFA is leaving due to an offersheet.

Jordan Eberle signs at 5.5m for the next 5.

Not bad honestly. If they can get 50 point seasons out of him (which isn't out of the question) for the next 3-4 seasons, that's not bad at all. The last year may be a pain to deal with, but I think it doesn't turn the contract into a bad one solely due to that.

Good signing by NYI.

https://www.tsn.ca/washin...r-matt-niskanen-1.1322266

What. The. Fuuuuck?! It was THAT easy to get him? They even retained cap to take on Niskanen! First Jensen, now this.
- MaximumBone

I kinda felt bad for you when I saw that trade.

I get back from work and it looks like some female genitalia wants "research" and "credibility"? Well, allow me to show you the research I did prior to making that post.

Yes, his difficult year was when he played on the top pairing with Rielly and spent 43.5% of his total minutes (source #1) playing against the opposition's best players. The season he "excelled" to the tune of -10.91% team relative goal share, -6.13% team relative HD chance share and minuses in pretty much every other team relative stat (source #2). While Gardiner played merely 28.9% of his time against the best, Zaitsev and Rielly played the hard minutes and their results suffered because of it

A defensive role only in that he had to cover for Gardiner's offensive sorties. In doing that, he started seeing weaker competition (see source #1, 2017-18) and saw his numbers take a bit of a jump, but it didn't last. The following year under much the same conditions, his results took a substantial dip as his poor play dragged down the results of literally every Dman he partnered with:

Partner/GF% Together/Zaitsev GF% Away/Partner GF% Away/Diff.

Gardiner/ 50.9%/ 33.3%/ 61.5%/ -28.2%
Muzzin/ 50%/ 43.5%/ 70.4%/ -26.9%
Dermott/ 44.4%/ 50%/ 52.2%/ -2.2%
Hainsey/ 36.4%/ 50%/ 58.2%/ -8.2%
(he saw 39 mins of 5-on-5 time w/ Rielly)

But those are some small sample sizes that- as such an evidence-based and credible man such as yourself must know- needed to be compared to a larger one. So here's his results with those same players over his whole career:

Gardiner/ 51.6%/ 43.3%/ 65.8%/ -22.5%
Rielly/ 40.2%/ 50.2%/ 55.8%/ -5.6
Muzzin/ 50%/ 43.5%/ 70.4%/ -26.9%
Dermott/ 44.4%/ 50%/ 52.2%/ -2.2%
Hainsey/ 48%/ 50%/ 56%/ -6%

Keeping in mind that Maple Leafs were running a 54.1% GF during this stretch of 3 seasons. Turns out the evidence supported my initial findings- the one's you seem intent on decrying as "not researched" and "non-credible". I'd go into more nuanced numbers that would show more precise measures of what he's good at and what's leading to his failures, but I feel no inclination to waste such on you.

And here's the fundamental part that you're not understanding: he'd be playing the same role here. He'd be paired on the 2nd pairing, playing secondary opposition and having to cover for an offensive LD with a tendency to over-extend at times (Nurse). If he's not suited to play the role in Toronto, he's not suited to our 2nd pair.

Good, keep your trash. As we've established, we want nothing to do with him and his propensity for being a significant drag on all his D partners. At least Russell's contract will be over in 2 years.

Then go ahead and take all those other means of freeing up cap space because Zaitsev is precisely what we want to avoid: bad, overplayed and overpaid.

Congratulations on showing your overwhelming conceit and allowing me the opportunity to lay out why Zaitsev would be among the worst possible acquisitions any team could make. I already gave away 1st prize a few years ago, but here's your participation award:



___________

Source #1: http://www.puckiq.com/players/8479458
Source #2: http://www.naturalstattri...te=r&v=p&playerid=8479458
- MaximumBone

This is an awesome post.

I kinda felt bad for you when I saw that trade.
- EdmHockeyMan

At least I've all but confirmed my theory that the Caps use a very similar evaluative methodology to what I use. All of Kempny, Jensen and now Gudas showed strong results in those respects and now Washington has all 3 locked up for less than 7.5mil total.

I get back from work and it looks like some female genitalia wants "research" and "credibility"? Well, allow me to show you the research I did prior to making that post.

Yes, his difficult year was when he played on the top pairing with Rielly and spent 43.5% of his total minutes (source #1) playing against the opposition's best players. The season he "excelled" to the tune of -10.91% team relative goal share, -6.13% team relative HD chance share and minuses in pretty much every other team relative stat (source #2). While Gardiner played merely 28.9% of his time against the best, Zaitsev and Rielly played the hard minutes and their results suffered because of it

A defensive role only in that he had to cover for Gardiner's offensive sorties. In doing that, he started seeing weaker competition (see source #1, 2017-18) and saw his numbers take a bit of a jump, but it didn't last. The following year under much the same conditions, his results took a substantial dip as his poor play dragged down the results of literally every Dman he partnered with:

Partner/GF% Together/Zaitsev GF% Away/Partner GF% Away/Diff.

Gardiner/ 50.9%/ 33.3%/ 61.5%/ -28.2%
Muzzin/ 50%/ 43.5%/ 70.4%/ -26.9%
Dermott/ 44.4%/ 50%/ 52.2%/ -2.2%
Hainsey/ 36.4%/ 50%/ 58.2%/ -8.2%
(he saw 39 mins of 5-on-5 time w/ Rielly)

But those are some small sample sizes that- as such an evidence-based and credible man such as yourself must know- needed to be compared to a larger one. So here's his results with those same players over his whole career:

Gardiner/ 51.6%/ 43.3%/ 65.8%/ -22.5%
Rielly/ 40.2%/ 50.2%/ 55.8%/ -5.6
Muzzin/ 50%/ 43.5%/ 70.4%/ -26.9%
Dermott/ 44.4%/ 50%/ 52.2%/ -2.2%
Hainsey/ 48%/ 50%/ 56%/ -6%

Keeping in mind that Maple Leafs were running a 54.1% GF during this stretch of 3 seasons. Turns out the evidence supported my initial findings- the one's you seem intent on decrying as "not researched" and "non-credible". I'd go into more nuanced numbers that would show more precise measures of what he's good at and what's leading to his failures, but I feel no inclination to waste such on you.

And here's the fundamental part that you're not understanding: he'd be playing the same role here. He'd be paired on the 2nd pairing, playing secondary opposition and having to cover for an offensive LD with a tendency to over-extend at times (Nurse). If he's not suited to play the role in Toronto, he's not suited to our 2nd pair.

Good, keep your trash. As we've established, we want nothing to do with him and his propensity for being a significant drag on all his D partners. At least Russell's contract will be over in 2 years.

Then go ahead and take all those other means of freeing up cap space because Zaitsev is precisely what we want to avoid: bad, overplayed and overpaid.

Congratulations on showing your overwhelming conceit and allowing me the opportunity to lay out why Zaitsev would be among the worst possible acquisitions any team could make. I already gave away 1st prize a few years ago, but here's your participation award:



___________

Source #1: http://www.puckiq.com/players/8479458
Source #2: http://www.naturalstattri...te=r&v=p&playerid=8479458
- MaximumBone

First of all, and I can't emphasize this enough... You need a (frank)ing life. In every sense of the term. Your parents must be so proud.

Great, a Corsi dork. The be all and end all. Where every relevant argument goes to die. So those debates are always hopeless, I'll leave you to it.

So really, only one question. Which one of those areas represents the part where zaitsev went from top PP unit and damn near 40 points, to being shoved into the top penalty killing role for two years? You could also plow your GF% straight up your hole and focus on the switch to defensive zone starts, but I mean, this is the kind of poop that comes from actually watching games and not just turning to corsi stats. So what do you do.

A cock eating joke from the guy named maximumbone, that's (frank)ing adorable.

I mean, you don't have to be such a female genitalia. But from the massive display of 'I have no life whatsoever', and 'really the only thing that does it for me anymore is being a female genitalia on hockeybuzz', I can see why you immediately went there. Parents must be over the moon.

Great, a Corsi dork. The be all and end all. Where every relevant argument goes to die. So those debates are always hopeless, I'll leave you to it.

So really, only one question. Which one of those areas represents the part where zaitsev went from top PP unit and damn near 40 points, to being shoved into the top penalty killing role for two years? You could also plow your GF% straight up your hole and focus on the switch to defensive zone starts, but I mean, this is the kind of poop that comes from actually watching games and not just turning to corsi stats. So what do you do.
- joel878

First off, I didn't mention Corsi even once. However, your immediate dismissal of an idea by virtue of the fact that you see a non-traditional stat is clear evidence of your deeply-rooted arrogance.

For clarity, Corsi has little to no bearing on evaluation of an individual without serious contextual references listed in conjunction. I listed RESULTS-based stats that detail precisely why your "asset" is, in fact, a liability. All numbers are 5-on-5 where PP and PK numbers hold minimal bearing.

Care for more evidence? While Zaitsev did see a drop in offensive zone starts from 2016-17 to 2017-18, he actually saw a STEEP decline (from 281 to a prorated 238) over that same year stretch which totaled out to a 3.15% positive jump in Off. Zone Starts year-over-year. That goes hand-in-hand with the fewer minutes he played against lesser competition as outlined by my previous post.

This past year, he saw a noticeable jump downward in zone start that coincide with his being poop-caved in the slot (to the tune of a -12.5% team-relative HDGF%). Likely doesn't help having to cover for Gardiner, but there's also a reason literally everyone thrives away from Zaitsev and it's not because he plays "the tough minutes".

I agree. A healthy dose of viewership is also important to qualify my statistical suppositions and I've seen enough of Zaitsev's play (his games against the Oilers, Sens, playoffs and couple scattered other ones) to reinforce those stances. Contrary to you, I work to integrate both methods of evaluation to come my conclusions.

If you're content "trusting your eyes" then so be it; just don't expect anyone to take your opinion seriously when you flatly deny the proven utility of non-traditional metrics. One needs only read a single study on the unreliability of human memory to understand why the 'eye test' alone is an ineffective method of evaluation.

First of all, and I can't emphasize this enough... You need a (frank)ing life. In every sense of the term. Your parents must be so proud.

I mean, you don't have to be such a female genitalia. But from the massive display of 'I have no life whatsoever', and 'really the only thing that does it for me anymore is being a female genitalia on hockeybuzz', I can see why you immediately went there. Parents must be over the moon.
- joel878

"Give me research and evidence" followed closely by "take your research and evidence and shove it". A classic tactic of a conceited child And I'm the female genitalia for responding to your thinly-veiled assertions of stupidity (see: "bye bye, credibility" and "do some research...") in kind? Get over yourself.

And stop filating yourself for even one second Your flaccid attempt at deriding my life when both of us are just a couple of female genitalias arguing about hockey online is beyond pathetic. Grow up.

https://www.tsn.ca/washin...r-matt-niskanen-1.1322266

What. The. Fuuuuck?! It was THAT easy to get him? They even retained cap to take on Niskanen! First Jensen, now this.
- MaximumBone

I can’t believe it.....I really feel like this was a missed opportunity